Another no-knock, and the table got turned

[TimMcG74]

Yet more evidence that this country devolved in to an oppressive police state generations ago. I just hung Betsy Ross flag on the front of my house because by the time there were 50 stars on our flag, we were no longer free.

 

[namedpipes]

You guys have a skewed view of what policing used to be, most likely informed by nostalgia of being 8 years old.

The Mayberry cops used to play temple blocks on people's heads with a billy club. They merely used to do it wearing a double breasted police uniform coat with assurance that everyone would take their licks and no one would say shit.

That may be the retro urban reality, but in the retro small town reality *I* grew up with, the police were neighbors, friends and family that sometimes had to be strict with us when we caroused too hardily. There were no midnight home invasions.

And as someone else said, the abuses that DID happen in the past were just as wrong then as they are now.

 

[Pete85]

There was a time when people trusted cops. Maybe not all people, maybe not all cops, but in general, cops were the "good guys"

Now even my mother doesn't trust cops. I don't know *anyone* who trusts cops (as a group, not individually).

Sure, it wasn't perfect in Mayberry (the "good ol' days", whatever) but it sure seems a lot worse now.

Sadly I know a couple of retired cops who don't trust the cops either.

 

[el duderino]

Or they wimped out after figuring out that the other guy was a better shot than they were. Seeing your comrades falling with a bloody face can be quite persuasive.

Likely they had to retreat and the guy realized they were cops and surrendered before they could regroup and kill him.

The scary part is someone would write that, and readers would think it is normal.

I read it as tongue in cheek sarcasm, but who knows.

I understand the need to use SWAT or no knock raid for serious, dangerous people but the cops get a toy and they want to use it. They use their no knocks and SWAT for minor crimes or even allegations and that is absurd.

No there really isnt a need for it, arrest them in public when theyre vulnerable or if they never leave their house then sit on it and wait for them to run out of food and water if they wont come out when you knock. Theres no justification for home invasion.

 

[OfficerObie59]

There was a time when people trusted cops. Maybe not all people, maybe not all cops, but in general, cops were the "good guys"

Now even my mother doesn't trust cops. I don't know *anyone* who trusts cops (as a group, not individually).

Sure, it wasn't perfect in Mayberry (the "good ol' days", whatever) but it sure seems a lot worse now.

No I don't, Obie. I really can remember when police officers acted like they were members of the same community. Now it seems that there is a pervasive "us versus them" mentality in too much of the profession.

Your double breasted example was wrong then and still wrong now. Only now it seems that we hear more and more of incidents such as these, where cops and innocents are killed or seriously hurt. It doesn't seem to be slowing down and that is the problem.

It's all in perception. True, we didn't have the failed War on Drugs to prompt news stories about fake raids, but I truly believe cops 40 or 50 years ago were far more brutal than they were today. it's simply that they were brutal to those society didn't give a shit about and no one said anything or had the ability to whip out their phone and shoot video of it. Back then, you could shoot wildly at fleeing cars, beat the shit out of the mouthy town drunk, and steal kids' beer--and it was "no big deal".

I'd say probably the other major reason no one gets any sort of less formal results of police intervention are laws mandating particular types of responses and the accompanying fear of liability, as well as push by many police leaders for statistics and arrest stats. There are plenty of times when cops would like to take an informal approach to resolving a situation, but are either bound by law or departmental policy. And that stirs community discontent.

That said, us versus them is a two-way street. I can't argue that the heavier burden should be on the cops to make that better, posts like this:

They won't need to...

All I see is a Target rich environment.

...do nothing to reverse that feeling and in fact reinforce the perception that anyone with an LTC might "get a bullet to the head" as TBalls recently found out.

 

[mark056]

You guys have a skewed view of what policing used to be, most likely informed by nostalgia of being 8 years old. The Mayberry cops used to play temple blocks on people's heads with a billy club. They merely used to do it wearing a double breasted police uniform coat with assurance that everyone would take their licks and no one would say shit.

Although I generally agree with you most of the time, we have really taken a backward stride in the community policing area. Street justice was frequently dispensed and people were kept in line. Part of the modern CJ studies is that things were somehow really backwards back in the day. I am not going dwell on the racist thing which everybody wants to gravitate to, but the simple fact is that the beat cop knew his neighborhood and had a lot more latitude in the execution of his duties.

Most people in small town America respected the police, and the police respected the citizenry. Now the citizenry is regarded as the enemy. I would have to agree with NamedPipes on this one. Cops were expected to maintain law and order, not to be social workers (although many were in a sense) mental health professionals or school disciplinarians. They were working class guys with average salaries.

Until the middle and late 70's which I remember quite well as I was an adult then, the police were different. Read Joseph Wambaugh's The New Centurions or the Blue Knight to get a sensing of police work back in the day.

Yeah, we know about Birmingham and Bull Conner and we know about the Chicago PD and the riots of 1968, but overall, although this is anecdotal I think the police were better received than they are today. Today they are perceived as overpaid, over educated and morphing into a hereditary warrior class (nepotism has always been an odious aspect of the Job) who place their own self interest above those who they serve. This may be perception, but truth is perception, like it or not.

 

[mattyw]

That said, us versus them is a two-way street. I can't argue that the heavier burden should be on the cops to make that better, posts like this:

it's easy to be "us against them" when one side is seemingly used to oppress another and has government, judges, guns, money, etc on their side

it is a two way street, just seems one side of the street may be much narrower

 

[ToddDubya]

and sooner rather than later

http://rt.com/news/167168-riot-control-pepper-spray-drone/

The UAS has four high-capacity gun barrels, capable of shooting up to 4,000 paintballs, pepper spray balls and solid plastic balls at rates of up to 80 balls per second. The company notes that the frequency should usually be between one and 20 balls per second, and that the high frequency of 80 “will only be used in an extreme ‘Life threatening situation’.”

80 balls per second * 60 seconds per minute * (.30-caliber clip to disperse with 30 balls within half a second) = Thirty magazine clip in half a second

I'm sure the operator at the other end can be trusted to decide between what is life threatening and what isn't.

 

[OfficerObie59]

it's easy to be "us against them" when one side is seemingly used to oppress another and has government, judges, guns, money, etc on their side

There are plenty of cops who would disagree with you on all of the above.

 

[not new guy]

There are plenty of cops who would disagree with you on all of the above.

They'd be delusional on everything but maybe the judges.

 

[mattyw]

There are plenty of cops who would disagree with you on all of the above.

I don't doubt it, but at least the perception, and specifically in the instances of alleged wrong doing by police officers, is that the system makes it extremely difficult to hold anyone accountable

I think that is the issue many people have with bad cops these days, bad cops have always existed, now they are more visible

 

[DispositionMatrix]

I don't doubt it, but at least the perception, and specifically in the instances of alleged wrong doing by police officers, is that the system makes it extremely difficult to hold anyone accountable

I think that is the issue many people have with bad cops these days, bad cops have always existed, now they are more visible

The authoritarian solution is to interdict that visibility.

 

[Machete]

80 balls per second * 60 seconds per minute * (.30-caliber clip to disperse with 30 balls within half a second) = Thirty magazine clip in half a second

I'm sure the operator at the other end can be trusted to decide between what is life threatening and what isn't.

If they're shooting pepper spray balls and plastic balls in an "extreme life threatening situation", they're doing applying the force spectrum incorrectly...

 

[OfficerObie59]

They'd be delusional on everything but maybe the judges.

Nor should the judges be on anyone's side.

 

[ToddDubya]

If they're shooting pepper spray balls and plastic balls in an "extreme life threatening situation", they're doing applying the force spectrum incorrectly...

Only until the incendiary balls hit the MIL/LEO market.


This message brought to you by the letter T and the number 9.

 

[mikem317]

Only until the incendiary balls hit the MIL/LEO market.


This message brought to you by the letter T and the number 9.

They work well when trying to immolate sleeping toddlers in their cribs.

http://www.salon.com/2014/06/24/a_swat_team_blew_a_hole_in_my_2_year_old_son/

 

[GlockJock]

I'm amazed that this guy didn't end up dead with a surprise stash deposited in his home.

Well, he probably would have, had he lived in Boston..or Worcester..or Medford...or Lynn..or Salisbury...
or Waltham, or __________ (fill in the Massachusetts "CorruptCopCity" of your choice here...)