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Another no-knock, and the table got turned
- Thread starter June4th
- Start date
There is a part of government that wants these violent confrontations to happen.
The guys who procure and train with the toys of war want to use them. The bureaucrats who get paid to worry about public unrest want to illustrate it. The political leaders who seek to demonize an opposing view or lifestyle want its existence to be related to violence and mayhem.
A peaceful and sensible society with few laws does not employ or empower a vast bureaucratic police state. As in all matters, government protects its own power, steadily seeking to grow that power either through perceived necessity or created fear. The process has all of the tedium one would expect and almost none of the conspiracy. It is driven at the ground level, one government lackey at a time, each telling himself he does the job for his family, the pension, or even the public good.
Here is an example from the ruling today on cell phone searches
Now what's wrong with this guy? Just look at what he gets paid to do. That's the answer and the fundamental problem.
The guys who procure and train with the toys of war want to use them. The bureaucrats who get paid to worry about public unrest want to illustrate it. The political leaders who seek to demonize an opposing view or lifestyle want its existence to be related to violence and mayhem.
A peaceful and sensible society with few laws does not employ or empower a vast bureaucratic police state. As in all matters, government protects its own power, steadily seeking to grow that power either through perceived necessity or created fear. The process has all of the tedium one would expect and almost none of the conspiracy. It is driven at the ground level, one government lackey at a time, each telling himself he does the job for his family, the pension, or even the public good.
Here is an example from the ruling today on cell phone searches
Now what's wrong with this guy? Just look at what he gets paid to do. That's the answer and the fundamental problem.
OfficerObie59
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Eh. Even if he was a drug dealer, he more than likely would have thought he was getting robbed and not that he was being raided.
Whatever his thought and intentions, he was attempting to defend his home. My opinion is simply that most police don't see no-knocks as a hazard to their safety but rather as an aid to it. And I think that assumption is fundamentally flawed. The calculus simply can't be boiled down to a presumption. You have to balance everything.
OfficerObie59
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You guys have a skewed view of what policing used to be, most likely informed by nostalgia of being 8 years old.
The Mayberry cops used to play temple blocks on people's heads with a billy club. They merely used to do it wearing a double breasted police uniform coat with assurance that everyone would take their licks and no one would say shit.
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In the end, a guy died for nothing.
What they supposedly went in for in the first place didn't even exist.
Whoever set up this shit show needs to be flogged in a public square.
Start sending him through the door (or window) first every damn time.
Bet the homework would get done better from that point on.
What they supposedly went in for in the first place didn't even exist.
Whoever set up this shit show needs to be flogged in a public square.
Start sending him through the door (or window) first every damn time.
Bet the homework would get done better from that point on.
Its not only wrong what they did but it was obviously done by untrained idiots. How could a guy, probably sleeping, wake up determine what is happening get gun and shoot before the SWAT team could control the situation. This boggles the mind
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It was as wrong then as this shit is now...
+1.
And you guys talking about "those responsible" need to realize that culpability must be nearest the act. One of the guys most responsible is dead. One more time: you can't have a no-knock raid without the raiders. Sure, we can blame the bosses, but the bosses are impotent on their own. Evil happens when men act to commit that evil.
My point was all that takes time. Must have been swat's first mission
Too much credit? He called them "untrained idiots", sounds like he wasn't giving them any credit!
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
At this point, they might as well just drone strike every house they were going to raid. I know they want to. Don't keep us in suspense government, show the full extent of the tyrants you are and start launching those hellfire missiles safely from 30,000 feet. Each house will be burned to rubble and all evidence gone, so no one will ever know the strike was not justified. Its the children after all....
There was a time when people trusted cops. Maybe not all people, maybe not all cops, but in general, cops were the "good guys"
Now even my mother doesn't trust cops. I don't know *anyone* who trusts cops (as a group, not individually).
Sure, it wasn't perfect in Mayberry (the "good ol' days", whatever) but it sure seems a lot worse now.
Made it to page 3 so it may have been said already.
They should really stick to doors and not windows. It's a lot easier and faster to get 4-5 guys through a door in full gear that one guy through a window. And they can shoot while going in the door, pretty hard to shoot while you're tucking and rolling through a window. Did they think he was sitting on the sofa with a shotgun staring at the door?
They should really stick to doors and not windows. It's a lot easier and faster to get 4-5 guys through a door in full gear that one guy through a window. And they can shoot while going in the door, pretty hard to shoot while you're tucking and rolling through a window. Did they think he was sitting on the sofa with a shotgun staring at the door?
xtry51
NES Member
Not sure, but certainly a semi-auto shotgun with 00 wouldn't have hurt. Maybe if he'd had a Saiga 12ga he could have thinned the ranks a little more.
When they wore blue uniforms and gave people rides. Now they give dogs rides to the farm.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
No I don't, Obie. I really can remember when police officers acted like they were members of the same community. Now it seems that there is a pervasive "us versus them" mentality in too much of the profession.
Your double breasted example was wrong then and still wrong now. Only now it seems that we hear more and more of incidents such as these, where cops and innocents are killed or seriously hurt. It doesn't seem to be slowing down and that is the problem.
Matty,
It doesn't work that way. Police work by its nature is risky, just like the military and firefighters. No guarantees that you will come home at the end of the shift. Hundreds of no knock warrants served everyday. No casualties on either side. it's the job he chose and in this instance he was the armed aggressor.
Whitey Bulger was a serious, dangerous person. Yet they used a ruse to lure him out rather than busting in with SWAT.
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namedpipes
NES Member
Freer in many ways than most, but EVERY state in the Union has its warts. Some are simply more malignant than others.
MA, NY, NJ and CA are terminal and surviving for a little while longer on palliative care. Many of the others can be treated and cured if they recognize the symptoms in time. Texas and New Hampshire are among these.
Believe me it's coming.
He probably woke up when he heard the MRAP clambering up his road at 5mph while the HMMWV gunner was laying down suppressive fire.
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