Another Incident From a "Gun Owner's Paradise"

[mark056]

Well folks this didn't happen in Texas but Mesa, Arizona a strong bastion of "God, Guns and Guts made America Free" mentality.

I think a lot of you folks who have never been anywhere but the Northeast need to have a reality check and realize that the cancer cells of moonbattery are everywhere, and that even one anti-gun merchant or business is one too many, and yes even in Arizona such places exist and we are talking Maricopa County not Pima County which has always swung more to the left.

https://www.facebook.com/ccwnation/posts/812461568834026
Victor Solorzano‎Concealed Nation


April 14 at 4:00pm · Tempe, AZ ·

So... I stopped by Costco in Mesa Arizona today.
I was carrying concealed and I guess the doorman noticed a slight bulge in my right hip under my shirt.
He then tell me I can't come in the store armed.
I looked around and there where no signs posted anywhere prohibiting carrying firearms.
Still after having a discussion with management I wasn't allowed and they say is a Costco policy.
I've been shopping there for years and always carry concealed.
I have a CCW but is not needed in Arizona.
I asked the management , what stops some one else with bad intentions walking in with a firearm ?... I got the same robotic response.
So what they told me was that since I had disclosed that I in fact was armed, I couldn't walk in.
Seems like I may not be shopping there anymore.
So beware if you are an armed law abiding citizen .
We are not welcomed at Costco.

 

[drgrant]

Well folks this didn't happen in Texas but Mesa, Arizona a strong bastion of "God, Guns and Guts made America Free" mentality.

I think a lot of you folks who have never been anywhere but the Northeast need to have a reality check and realize that the cancer cells of moonbattery are everywhere, and that even one anti-gun merchant or business is one too many, and yes even in Arizona such places exist and we are talking Maricopa County not Pima County which has always swung more to the left.

https://www.facebook.com/ccwnation/posts/812461568834026
Victor Solorzano‎Concealed Nation


April 14 at 4:00pm · Tempe, AZ ·

So... I stopped by Costco in Mesa Arizona today.
I was carrying concealed and I guess the doorman noticed a slight bulge in my right hip under my shirt.
He then tell me I can't come in the store armed.
I looked around and there where no signs posted anywhere prohibiting carrying firearms.
Still after having a discussion with management I wasn't allowed and they say is a Costco policy.
I've been shopping there for years and always carry concealed.
I have a CCW but is not needed in Arizona.
I asked the management , what stops some one else with bad intentions walking in with a firearm ?... I got the same robotic response.
So what they told me was that since I had disclosed that I in fact was armed, I couldn't walk in.
Seems like I may not be shopping there anymore.
So beware if you are an armed law abiding citizen .
We are not welcomed at Costco.

Shit store policy is shit. Not sure what this has to do with AZ specifically... although they seem to have a lock on corrupt sheriffs down there, and their self defense law is not quite as polished as it could be, not sure how much that changed since harold fish got thrown in jail.

 

[DispositionMatrix]

No surprise at all, especially at a national chain. More and more companies will adopt policies against legally-carried firearms. This is one of the ways gun restrictionists will win--by making it impossible to carry _to_ any place you might want to go to acquire something or otherwise conduct business.

 

[Terminator03]

Well, I'd say that's a fail on the "customer" for two reasons. One for printing badly enough that he could be "made" that easily, and two, for admitting to carrying in the first place! They have no legal right to search him - especially upon entering the store, so he could have just told the guy to F-off, and went on with his shopping. Once he flapped his gums about carrying the firearm, then they had legal grounds to refuse him entry. Sucks to see things go in that direction, but I fear we will be seeing this stuff become more and more widespread as large companies pander to the sheep majority who believe that only LEO should have guns. Then there are the open carry guys that actually FORCE the hand of "on the fence" organizations into adding no weapons policies because they feel it's prudent to walk into places like Target with their AR at the low ready.

 

[drgrant]

No surprise at all, especially at a national chain. More and more companies will adopt policies against legally-carried firearms. This is one of the ways gun restrictionists will win--by making it impossible to carry _to_ any place you might want to go to acquire something or otherwise conduct business.

They can have fun installing netal detectors, then. Policies wont stop anyone i know, frankly. Nobody obeys that shit, even in places with binding signage, unless theres real security onsite.

 

[Win]

Last time I was in Arizona, which was many years ago, they sold guns at the grocery store.

 

[dragonballzz]

I bet a Costco in MA wont notice a bulge in my waist.

 

[Admin]

Shit store policy is shit. Not sure what this has to do with AZ specifically... although they seem to have a lock on corrupt sheriffs down there, and their self defense law is not quite as polished as it could be, not sure how much that changed since harold fish got thrown in jail.

+1

 

[mark056]

Now I'm going to reply to all of you "concealed means concealed folks" How many times have I heard it said "I don't worry so much about printing in NH because it is an open carry state." Well Arizona is a Constitutional Carry State and Open Carry is perfectly legal. There is no signage in the store, there is no policy posted anywhere in the store, there is no municipal ordnance to the best of my knowledge that prohibits the open carry of any firearm in the city of Mesa, Arizona, so whether or not his firearm was bulging or even partially showing is in one sense moot. See, you guys have a Ma$$hole mental condition here about "concealed means concealed" it doesn't matter in a place like Arizona how concealed or unconcealed your gat is because it's all perfectly legal and that's the point.

Now I know, it's Costco's business and their right to set their policies, but let's get over the idea that somehow the guy was at fault because he didn't conceal enough because in the Grand Canyon State he doesn't have to conceal to begin with. Let's blame the victim once again, he was asking for it? Right...

 

[VetteGirlMA]

Good post. After several years I recently let my Costco membership expire and now I have a definitive reason to not shop there anymore.

 

[wiryone1]

I would take any one of the interior Western states over the Northeast any day of the week and that goes beyond just gun laws/gun culture.

 

[Boris]

Now I know, it's Costco's business and their right to set their policies, but let's get over the idea that somehow the guy was at fault because he didn't conceal enough because in the Grand Canyon State he doesn't have to conceal to begin with. Let's blame the victim once again, he was asking for it? Right...

well, he did admit to the guard that he was carying, why TF get into conversation with some dude in fake uniform? I'm carrying flask, poop-bucket ... none of your business shit under my shirt. If entering Costco requires a strip search or metal detector pass, then it's a different story. Why Utah Standoff winners need to blab their mouths in the wind???

I was carrying concealed and I guess the doorman noticed a slight bulge in my right hip under my shirt.
He then tell me I can't come in the store armed.

 

[knfmn]

I'd keep pushing it up the foodchain at Costco. Make it clear that you're dissatisfied with this policy and get your membership refunded. https://ems02071lb.egain.net/system...EZONE_OFFSET&CMD=VIEW_ARTICLE&ARTICLE_ID=2837

Our primary goal at Costco Wholesale is to keep our members happy. If you believe that our policy restricting members from bringing firearms into our warehouse stores is either unfair or excessively burdensome, or you cannot agree to abide by this policy, or you are dissatisfied for any other reason, Costco will promptly refund your annual membership fee in full.

What was the guy carrying that the door person noticed it? Desert Eagle under a spandex shirt? My experience has always been that people are amazingly oblivious to the world around them and never notice concealed guns.

 

[AngelKing]

for one, don't print.

for another, if you do print and someone asks if you're carrying a gun. say no.

if they persist and insist on asking, its none of their business.

if you want to have fun, tell em its a colostomy bag and that youll be happy to empty its contents for a proper 'inspection."

 

[goodzilla]

So what they told me was that since I had disclosed that I in fact was armed, I couldn't walk in.

So, basically, the right answer when the doorman asked if he was carrying was "none of your business". Doorman can't search your person based on a print. I suppose they could still say they don't want you in the store as a private establishment, if you didn't submit, but you could make a pretty loud stink at that point about the doorman wanting to search you.

 

[robjax]

if they persist and insist on asking, its none of their business.

if you want to have fun, tell em its a colostomy bag and that youll be happy to empty its contents for a proper 'inspection."

This is perfect!!!!!

 

[wiryone1]

for one, don't print.

for another, if you do print and someone asks if you're carrying a gun. say no.

if they persist and insist on asking, its none of their business.

if you want to have fun, tell em its a colostomy bag and that youll be happy to empty its contents for a proper 'inspection."

Or what if that "bulge" is a cell phone and the person is not carrying. How many people carry a monster phone on a belt clip these days? They need to MYOFB.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I bet a Costco in MA wont notice a bulge in my waist.

Even better, the ones I shop at DON'T CARE! Since I know some of the local management (multiple stores), I've had this conversation and their personal attitude is that it is not a problem or a policy that they will enforce.

I've noticed a shopper (with young child) carrying whereby his holster was visible below his shirt. I merely smiled to myself (good for him) and went about my business shopping.

I'd keep pushing it up the foodchain at Costco. Make it clear that you're dissatisfied with this policy and get your membership refunded. https://ems02071lb.egain.net/system...EZONE_OFFSET&CMD=VIEW_ARTICLE&ARTICLE_ID=2837

What was the guy carrying that the door person noticed it? Desert Eagle under a spandex shirt? My experience has always been that people are amazingly oblivious to the world around them and never notice concealed guns.

By all means, get a membership refund, they will gladly do that.

It's been "corporate policy" for many years as the founder was a big anti-gun contributor. Current president (Senegal{sp?} is retired) is not the same guy but the policy officially stays.

As for the law . . . AZ has some strange anti-gun laws. I KNOW (from a gun owner friend in Phoenix) that it is illegal to carry in a shopping mall in AZ. I am uncertain about their laws wrt other stores however.

Personally if I studied all the corporate policies of every store that I might go to, I'd probably find less than a handful that I could shop in and abide by their policies. I could care less what their policies are (other than on returns ) and I just go about my business. YMMV

I hate malls so it is extremely rare (maybe once in 5-10 years) that I'll be in any mall for a targeted store only.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Or what if that "bulge" is a cell phone and the person is not carrying. How many people carry a monster phone on a belt clip these days? They need to MYOFB.

I've had firearms students claim that my cell phone (Galaxy S4, shortly to be even larger as I move to an S6) bulge is a gun numerous times. I had a clerk (who knows me) in a hotel make the same claim. It's humorous and doesn't bother me in the least.

 

[Lcstyle]

Now I'm going to reply to all of you "concealed means concealed folks" How many times have I heard it said "I don't worry so much about printing in NH because it is an open carry state." Well Arizona is a Constitutional Carry State and Open Carry is perfectly legal. There is no signage in the store, there is no policy posted anywhere in the store, there is no municipal ordnance to the best of my knowledge that prohibits the open carry of any firearm in the city of Mesa, Arizona, so whether or not his firearm was bulging or even partially showing is in one sense moot. See, you guys have a Ma$$hole mental condition here about "concealed means concealed" it doesn't matter in a place like Arizona how concealed or unconcealed your gat is because it's all perfectly legal and that's the point.

Now I know, it's Costco's business and their right to set their policies, but let's get over the idea that somehow the guy was at fault because he didn't conceal enough because in the Grand Canyon State he doesn't have to conceal to begin with. Let's blame the victim once again, he was asking for it? Right...

 

[robjax]

I got this from a post on "Defensive Carry. com"


https://costco.egain.net/system/self...edArticle=true

Personal Firearms/Guns in Costco Stores

Costco Wholesale is a membership-only warehouse club. It is not open to the general public. It restricts membership to a limited group of qualified individuals who agree to membership conditions. We have the right and the obligation to our members, to enact and enforce membership rules. The Member Service Employees at the exit doors are obliged to follow these rules. By obtaining a Costco membership card, our members agree to comply with the Membership Rules and the Privileges and Conditions of membership.

Costco does not believe that it is necessary for firearms to be brought into its warehouse stores, except in the case of authorized law enforcement officers. For the protection of all our members and employees, we feel this is a reasonable and prudent precaution to ensure a pleasant shopping experience and safe workplace. Our policy is meant to protect our members and employees in all warehouses around the world. This is not a new policy and we do not customize the policy for each individual city/county/state/country where we do business.

Our primary goal at Costco Wholesale is to keep our members happy. If you believe that our policy restricting members from bringing firearms into our warehouse stores is either unfair or excessively burdensome, or you cannot agree to abide by this policy, or you are dissatisfied for any other reason, Costco will promptly refund your annual membership fee in full.



But they'll sell you a gun safe with no problem.

http://www.costco.com/BIGHORN-Safe-...-20"D-|-Electronic-Lock.product.11625662.html



This is interesting too..

http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/2010/09/costco-and-guns.html

 

[AngelKing]

yep - but at the same time, he had to have been wearing something really tight or revealing to even arouse such a suspicion - its not that hard to dress around a firearm - I've said many many times that my preferred CCW is my 4" 686 - I've carried that with shorts and a Tshirt in an IWB @ the 5:00 mark with no issues. When I was fatter, the fat would push the weapon a tad, but I wore a larger T shirt.,

Should we have to have all these concerns? No, but in an age of increasing nanny stating and with every store clerk thinking he's Jack Bauer because of the whole "see something say something" environment we live in, those who carry have to be cognizant.

Or what if that "bulge" is a cell phone and the person is not carrying. How many people carry a monster phone on a belt clip these days? They need to MYOFB.

 

[drgrant]

Now I'm going to reply to all of you "concealed means concealed folks" How many times have I heard it said "I don't worry so much about printing in NH because it is an open carry state." Well Arizona is a Constitutional Carry State and Open Carry is perfectly legal. There is no signage in the store, there is no policy posted anywhere in the store, there is no municipal ordnance to the best of my knowledge that prohibits the open carry of any firearm in the city of Mesa, Arizona, so whether or not his firearm was bulging or even partially showing is in one sense moot.

When people say this they're mostly referring to negative interactions from LE, which in NH are pretty limited at this point. There is no doubt in my mind that there are moonbatty stores or business owners that would kick you out for openly carrying a gun in their place. You're conflating two different sets of issues here. Lack of signage doesn't mean that a business owner is going to pat you on the back for carrying a gun in their store. Whether we like it or not the lawr does not, and is probably never going to, get rid of the property owner's discretion. I don't see this as a major issue whatsoever.

Now I know, it's Costco's business and their right to set their policies, but let's get over the idea that somehow the guy was at fault because he didn't conceal enough because in the Grand Canyon State he doesn't have to conceal to begin with. Let's blame the victim once again, he was asking for it? Right...

I don't think anyone is saying he's "at fault" for anything.

-Mike

- - - Updated - - -

 

[JohnZ]

At the store I go to they are glorified greeters who just want to see your card to make sure you're a member. Not sure why they do that because you need a card to check out and the layout makes it pretty tough to exit the store without paying.

As far as their policy goes, it's their store and I see nothing wrong with them having their policy or deciding to stop you. I don't agree with it but this is a free country. I think that the first time something bad happens to someone at one of these chains with a no guns policy and they get sued, the trend will change to neutral on guns. If someone can sue for hot coffee, I'm damn sure going to try to sue because they didn't provide the gun free zone they promised.

 

[jkelly1229]

Yeah I'll agree with let them do as they please just don't shop there.
But what 11 dollar an hour greeter security guard whatever is going to bust someone's nuts over carrying a gun I think that's understated here. We know now the dude was carrying a piece because he can and wanted to legally. But for 11 bucks an hour Rambo could walk by shirtless with an m60 and I'm not saying jack as long as it isn't pointed in my direction. I feel that is an incredibly unsafe store policy last time I checked coke was still cut with baby powder and they have giant tubs of it at costco. Dude could have been anyone don't know why that'd be on store security to stop him

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yeah I'll agree with let them do as they please just don't shop there.
But what 11 dollar an hour greeter security guard whatever is going to bust someone's nuts over carrying a gun I think that's understated here. We know now the dude was carrying a piece because he can and wanted to legally. But for 11 bucks an hour Rambo could walk by shirtless with an m60 and I'm not saying jack as long as it isn't pointed in my direction. I feel that is an incredibly unsafe store policy last time I checked coke was still cut with baby powder and they have giant tubs of it at costco. Dude could have been anyone don't know why that'd be on store security to stop him

Choose to shop where you like, but your post shows that you know nothing about Costco operations.

Costco may start someone at $11/hr, but after a few years their employees make >$20/hour and they insist on cross-training everyone. So the "greeter" you see today will be working the cash register or stocking shelves later that same day. Even their managers do it all. It is part of their corporate philosophy (they are non-union).

I have never seen any "security guards" at any Costco that I've been in (CT, MA, NH and FL) but I'll never say that they don't have them in some very rough neighborhoods. I'm not really aware that they have dedicated "loss prevention" people in the stores either. Phoenix has lots of problems with illegals and all that it brings, so they may indeed have dedicated security at some of those stores. Also they may have been subjected to the OC crowd and thus are being extra vigilant in those stores. But once you admit that you are carrying and it is against their corporate policy, you are in for a bad time (asked to leave and can be trespassed if you refuse), even if it is legal in AZ (see my comment above about mall carry being illegal in AZ).

 

[jeepchute]

(see my comment above about mall carry being illegal in AZ).

This is the second time you've said that. I'm going to need a cite for this claim. Len, you've always given out great advice and I follow your posts often. As far as I know, when I have been in AZ, carry in any private establishment, including malls is not prohibited by statute. AZ does have binding signage, and if the mall is posted correctly then you can not carry there but that is up to the mall management and not the government.

There may be malls that are posted but as far as I know it is not the law that you may not carry in a mall.

Please correct me if I am wrong though.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

Michael Douglas dug a big hole in costco once in search of lost gold so maybe they fear another non member would do the same.
http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0388182/

At the store I go to they are glorified greeters who just want to see your card to make sure you're a member. Not sure why they do that because you need a card to check out and the layout makes it pretty tough to exit the store without paying.

As far as their policy goes, it's their store and I see nothing wrong with them having their policy or deciding to stop you. I don't agree with it but this is a free country. I think that the first time something bad happens to someone at one of these chains with a no guns policy and they get sued, the trend will change to neutral on guns. If someone can sue for hot coffee, I'm damn sure going to try to sue because they didn't provide the gun free zone they promised.

 

[ARV]

Yeah I'll agree with let them do as they please just don't shop there.
But what 11 dollar an hour greeter security guard whatever is going to bust someone's nuts over carrying a gun I think that's understated here. We know now the dude was carrying a piece because he can and wanted to legally. But for 11 bucks an hour Rambo could walk by shirtless with an m60 and I'm not saying jack as long as it isn't pointed in my direction. I feel that is an incredibly unsafe store policy last time I checked coke was still cut with baby powder and they have giant tubs of it at costco. Dude could have been anyone don't know why that'd be on store security to stop him

Baby formula is popular too.

 

[namedpipes]

So, basically, the right answer when the doorman asked if he was carrying was "none of your business". Doorman can't search your person based on a print. I suppose they could still say they don't want you in the store as a private establishment, if you didn't submit, but you could make a pretty loud stink at that point about the doorman wanting to search you.

No, the appropriate answer is:

"I'm *MARRIED*. That's disgusting!"

And act like he just propositioned you.

Then walk away. He probably won't follow you.