Another Incident From a "Gun Owner's Paradise"

[ochmude]

I KNOW (from a gun owner friend in Phoenix) that it is illegal to carry in a shopping mall in AZ. I am uncertain about their laws wrt other stores however.

Are you saying it's illegal to carry in a particular mall specified by your friend, or that it's illegal to carry in any shopping mall in AZ? I've never heard of such a blanket prohibition, but AZ does have binding signage.

 

[drgrant]

Yeah I'll agree with let them do as they please just don't shop there.
But what 11 dollar an hour greeter security guard whatever is going to bust someone's nuts over carrying a gun I think that's understated here. We know now the dude was carrying a piece because he can and wanted to legally. But for 11 bucks an hour Rambo could walk by shirtless with an m60 and I'm not saying jack as long as it isn't pointed in my direction. I feel that is an incredibly unsafe store policy last time I checked coke was still cut with baby powder and they have giant tubs of it at costco. Dude could have been anyone don't know why that'd be on store security to stop him

 

[mark056]

This is the second time you've said that. I'm going to need a cite for this claim. Len, you've always given out great advice and I follow your posts often. As far as I know, when I have been in AZ, carry in any private establishment, including malls is not prohibited by statute. AZ does have binding signage, and if the mall is posted correctly then you can not carry there but that is up to the mall management and not the government. There may be malls that are posted but as far as I know it is not the law that you may not carry in a mall. Please correct me if I am wrong though.

I have never known Len to fail when it comes to MA Law but no where on my reading of the AZ statutes do I find malls specifically mentioned as prohibited places regardless of what a "friend" told me.

 

[Bt74]

But...but.....if a vendor at the mall refuses to make a donut decorated with a gay couple engaging in anal sex, they are subject to horrific fines???

 

[DispositionMatrix]

So stop doing business with them.

Instead choose to do business with companies that do not adopt stupid policies

Simple problem, simple solution.

I wont go into the mall in Concord NH because they posted no guns sign.......

Starve em out.

Ultimately though....the real takeaway is that concealed means CONCEALED.....

I do not know of a mall in NH that does not have a no-guns policy. Eventually, all retail stores will have such policies.

 

[The5thDentist]

Just tell them it's a really big ectopic [extra] nipple.

Costco is strange in this regard. A no-gun policy, but they sell gun safes and clearly have preppers on the buying team. They regularly sell storable food and solar recharging gear. They will also have many other items that can be part of someone's preps, like generators for instance.

I've tried the other stores [BJ's and Sam's], but my wife and I stay with Costco because we like the quality of the products.

I think their "check the sales receipt" policy is worse than their gun policy. You have to show the membership card to get in, and to go through the checkout lines. The store is well-designed to funnel everyone through the checkout lines. There really is no way you could walk out of the stores with merchandise without someone seeing you. So what I'd like to know is why do they have to have one or two people to check the sales receipt while looking at the shopping cart to see if items match? There is no way they can see everything in the cart on these big orders, and all it does is just logjam the exit on busy days like Saturday.

Sorry for the tangent. Overall it's a great store. They just have some really strange quirks.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I bet a Costco in MA wont notice a bulge in my waist.

Colostomy bag.

So what I'd like to know is why do they have to have one or two people to check the sales receipt while looking at the shopping cart to see if items match?

One of the things they are looking for is clerks who "forget" to ring up high cost items for their confederates.

 

[Len-2A Training]

This is the second time you've said that. I'm going to need a cite for this claim. Len, you've always given out great advice and I follow your posts often. As far as I know, when I have been in AZ, carry in any private establishment, including malls is not prohibited by statute. AZ does have binding signage, and if the mall is posted correctly then you can not carry there but that is up to the mall management and not the government.

There may be malls that are posted but as far as I know it is not the law that you may not carry in a mall.

Please correct me if I am wrong though.

Are you saying it's illegal to carry in a particular mall specified by your friend, or that it's illegal to carry in any shopping mall in AZ? I've never heard of such a blanket prohibition, but AZ does have binding signage.

I have never known Len to fail when it comes to MA Law but no where on my reading of the AZ statutes do I find malls specifically mentioned as prohibited places regardless of what a "friend" told me.

I did say that I was told this by someone who had one or more handguns stolen out of his vehicle at a mall since he couldn't legally carry in the mall.

I also said I didn't have any cite for it, but do trust the person who told me this as he lives there.

But since you guys noted the "binding signage" AZ law, that may well be what he was referring to. I know most of the large malls are owned by a handful of conglomerates and post "no guns" signs at all their malls (if you hunt for the "the following are prohibited" signs in MA malls, you will find this to be true here too).

So, I'll take you guys at your word that there is no direct law against it in AZ, but due to "binding signage" law, it makes it illegal in many/most shopping malls.

Personally I've only been to AZ once in my life and it was a "hit and run" business trip with my boss. All I got to see was PHX, the beltway to El Tapitio (great resort that I had no time to enjoy) and PNO (DEC's plant) back in the early 1980s. So I never had the opportunity to see anything really in that state.

 

[CTpatriot]

They can have fun installing netal detectors, then. Policies wont stop anyone i know, frankly. Nobody obeys that shit, even in places with binding signage, unless theres real security onsite.

the only no gun signs i have seen are at court buildings and post offices. i dont look for signs, screw em.

 

[mikem317]

Their house? Their rules.

I know that stings considering some forms of discrimination are statutorily prohibited, like skin color, sex, national orgin, etc. Protected classes don't include being armed.

Eh. Just don't shop there. Or if yout must, then do so concealed.

 

[Bt74]

I do not know of a mall in NH that does not have a no-guns policy. Eventually, all retail stores will have such policies.

3 of the malls are owned by Simon Property Group, and the 4th is managed by them. They ALL have signs prohibiting guns, knives and any other weapons. If you open carry, you will be asked to "secure" the weapon. In my experience, the open/exposed part is realistically the issue with enforcement. Most of the security staff at MNH is pro2nd. Being in well into NH, I would guess that at any one time, there are about 5% of the occupants of the Manchester mall CCing.

 

[Len-2A Training]

3 of the malls are owned by Simon Property Group, and the 4th is managed by them. They ALL have signs prohibiting guns, knives and any other weapons. If you open carry, you will be asked to "secure" the weapon. In my experience, the open/exposed part is realistically the issue with enforcement. Most of the security staff at MNH is pro2nd. Being in well into NH, I would guess that at any one time, there are about 5% of the occupants of the Manchester mall CCing.

My BIL managed numerous malls for Simon Property Group many years ago. Corporate policy to post all their properties and they own the majority of large malls in MA.

 

[Cabinetman]

Meh....not really a story at all. The "good guy" is a card-carrying Costco member and you cannot gain entrance to a Costco without flashing your red and white Costco card to the keeper of the door, period. So, we all know that bad guys, while having bad guns, probably doesn't have a Costco Membership card so right there, he would be denied entrance thus keeping the sheeple in the Costco store safe from being shot up by bad guys or, for that matter, having to be protected by a good guy with a CCW AND his membership card. LOL

FYI, Costco has had a "no firearms" attitude since forever but doesn't display it at least at any of the two stores in my area. But, concealed is concealed, right?

Just a bit of sarcasm..........Rome

 

[IvIax]

lol, i carry my gun in costco ALL the Time. no idea they have this ****ing policy now.

 

[drgrant]

My BIL managed numerous malls for Simon Property Group many years ago. Corporate policy to post all their properties and they own the majority of large malls in MA.

Kind of amusing considering their gun bans are printed in like tiny, almost invisible 2 point font on the doors... All the more reason nearly everyone I know ignores them.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

So stop doing business with them.

Instead choose to do business with companies that do not adopt stupid policies

Simple problem, simple solution.

I wont go into the mall in Concord NH because they posted no guns sign.......

Starve em out.

Will you call every business you intend to visit to see if its OK to carry there? I bet you won't do it. I know you won't, because you're not gonna like the answers you get. Otherwise, why even bother? The signage only shows the ones who are "out" as being anti. Lack of a sign doesn't mean they "like" guns being carried in their store. If you say you're not going to call, how do you know the business isn't giving you the middle finger behind a shield of ambiguity?

Frankly who cares, carry where you want when you want, long as it doesn't put you in serious legal peril. Everyone knows these signs etc are meaningless in this part of the country. You're creating an imaginary battle over something nobody else cares about (including most gun carriers I know).

-Mike

 

[RadiCS]

I'm bjs better...

 

[IvIax]

I'm bjs better...

Who doesn't like bjs?

 

[Len-2A Training]

lol, i carry my gun in costco ALL the Time. no idea they have this ****ing policy now.

That was the policy set up when the company was founded. PRIOR owner (founder) donated mucho personal funds to anti-2A groups over the years.

Kind of amusing considering their gun bans are printed in like tiny, almost invisible 2 point font on the doors... All the more reason nearly everyone I know ignores them.

-Mike

Where have you seen them on doors at malls? The only ones I've ever seen were on stand-alone huge sign (with every conceivable "can't do/have" item listed on it) well inside the doorways of the mall itself (not in anchor stores or at the door where you'd see it before entering).

Will you call every business you intend to visit to see if its OK to carry there? I bet you won't do it. I know you won't, because you're not gonna like the answers you get. Otherwise, why even bother? The signage only shows the ones who are "out" as being anti. Lack of a sign doesn't mean they "like" guns being carried in their store. If you say you're not going to call, how do you know the business isn't giving you the middle finger behind a shield of ambiguity?

Frankly who cares, carry where you want when you want, long as it doesn't put you in serious legal peril. Everyone knows these signs etc are meaningless in this part of the country. You're creating an imaginary battle over something nobody else cares about (including most gun carriers I know).

-Mike

Indeed! Almost every store, if you inquire will say NO! Even if they don't have a written policy the person you talk to will make one up.

Many/most times it is much better not to ask questions for which you are unlikely to like the answer!

I'm bjs better...

I'll admit that I hate BJ's but I challenge you to call them and ask. I'm certain of the answer you will get and you won't like it.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

But since you guys noted the "binding signage" AZ law, that may well be what he was referring to.

The actual effect if binding signage varies by state. In some states, the penalty is so minor as to make "binding signage" nothing more than a reminder to keep it concealed. There is a huge difference between risking a small civil fine and a felony or misdafelony.

For example, the maximum penalty in MN (home of Mall of America) is a $25 civil fine, with a provision that the gun may not be forfeited as part of the penalty. You can't even lose your CCW for it. Other states may have more severe penalties. If MA had binding signage, it would probably mean "PP for possession for life, possibly federally" if you violated a sign.