American Holoptics buys EOTech from L3Harris

Dennis in MA

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American Holoptics sounds like a group dedicated to freaky sexual tendencies. "Hi, I'm Steeeeeeve from American Holoptics. Did you want to join with us today?" LOL
 

C. Stockwell

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The parent company Koucar seems to be a legit US company. Weird portfolio though. Everything from Taco restaurants to hotels/property management to defense contractors making mini guns. Talk about diversification...
Connection appears to be Michigan. So, the Michigander version of Cerberus?

About • Koucar

Koucar Management is a privately held, Michigan-based company with ownership in dozens of companies. Our financial and managerial resources bring strength to these entities. Our wide spectrum of business activities include: General Contracting, Construction Management, Property Management, Hotel / Hospitality Management, Technology and Software.

During its first decade, Koucar Management became one of the industry’s largest and most respected operators. In 2016, Koucar Management and its associated holdings became one of the largest construction companies in Michigan.

Today, Koucar Management is providing growth capital and other resources to its portfolio of companies, which collectively own and operate in excess of $250 million in assets. An investment strategy firmly focuses on expansion within existing industries brings new vitality to acquired businesses and lays the groundwork for new ventures compatible with Koucar Management recognized management strengths and ample financial resources.
 

drgrant

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Whatever happened to eotech with that massive recall? Did they ever end up redesigning the product? OR is the stuff they're selling now still the same f***ed up stuff that went into recall?
 

ReluctantDecoy

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Whatever happened to eotech with that massive recall? Did they ever end up redesigning the product? OR is the stuff they're selling now still the same f***ed up stuff that went into recall?
I think it was a $25M dent on EOtech, so maybe they sold because they were out of options and this new company agreed to absorb outstanding liabilities. The strange part is that they had somewhat of a successful splash at all the last gun conventions, showing new models that were getting hyped up by all the regular gun channels. How where they doing that R&D after eating that $25M loss?
 

mav

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Whatever happened to eotech with that massive recall? Did they ever end up redesigning the product? OR is the stuff they're selling now still the same f***ed up stuff that went into recall?

Basically, the four issues were “reticle dimming” from moisture incursion, “thermal drift,” parallax, and distortion of the reticle in cold weather. The distortion of the reticle from cold weather was fixed in 2008. Reticle dimming from moisture incursion was fixed in 2014 with new components. Parallax isn't an issue when the reticle is set in the middle of the optic. Thermal drift seems to be a technical challenge that all red dots face and may still be an issue with Eotech sights. In fact, the reason Eotech got sued was they stated there was no thermal drift when there was. All the other manufacturers of red dot/holographics have now added disclaimers regarding thermal drift because it exists in every sight that has a circuit and is exposed to high variances of temperature.
 
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citoriguy

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Whatever happened to eotech with that massive recall? Did they ever end up redesigning the product? OR is the stuff they're selling now still the same f***ed up stuff that went into recall?
They fixed things. My EXPS-3 is great, especially when paired with the G33 magnifier. The glass on my Steiner “true” scope is better, but my EXPS-3 has good glass and hasn’t exhibited any of the problems that led to that massive recall.
 
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I think it was a $25M dent on EOtech, so maybe they sold because they were out of options and this new company agreed to absorb outstanding liabilities. The strange part is that they had somewhat of a successful splash at all the last gun conventions, showing new models that were getting hyped up by all the regular gun channels. How where they doing that R&D after eating that $25M loss?
Products in the pipeline already.
New products added value to the company, company sold while the getting was good.

People swore by eotech till the poi shift issue and that took a long time to find- they may not have been past it.
 

mav

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Products in the pipeline already.
New products added value to the company, company sold while the getting was good.

People swore by eotech till the poi shift issue and that took a long time to find- they may not have been past it.
I still swear by them. I've had Trijicon, Aimpoint and Eotech optics. They all have their pros and cons. Based on personal experience, I use Eotech for CQB configuration in combination with a 3X flip mag for mid-range/target ID and co-witness with flip-up irons for backup. To me, this provides the best combination of cost, weight, flexibility, magnification, redundancy, and accuracy. FWIW, I'm not against a typical ACOG/RMR set up, it's just awkward to have the RMR so high, it provides no co-witness, is heavy, more expensive and RMR's can still see thermal drift. I'm actually leaning towards an Elcan Specter as my next purchase, but again, heavy and expensive.

Here is some additional testing done regarding parallex and manufacturer claims vs actual performance: Comparative Study of Red Dot Sight Parallax | Green Eye Tactical. Eotech comes out ahead in this. I know Aimpoints and Trijicon MRO's suffer thermal drift as well, so at the end of the day, it's pick your poison if you want red-dot or holo or go with a traditional scope and hope it works for all scenarios, with offset irons for example.
 

ReluctantDecoy

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I still swear by them. I've had Trijicon, Aimpoint and Eotech optics. They all have their pros and cons. Based on personal experience, I use Eotech for CQB configuration in combination with a 3X flip mag for mid-range/target ID and co-witness with flip-up irons for backup. To me, this provides the best combination of cost, weight, flexibility, magnification, redundancy, and accuracy. FWIW, I'm not against a typical ACOG/RMR set up, it's just awkward to have the RMR so high, it provides no co-witness, is heavy, more expensive and RMR's can still see thermal drift. I'm actually leaning towards an Elcan Specter as my next purchase, but again, heavy and expensive.

Here is some additional testing done regarding parallex and manufacturer claims vs actual performance: Comparative Study of Red Dot Sight Parallax | Green Eye Tactical. Eotech comes out ahead in this. I know Aimpoints and Trijicon MRO's suffer thermal drift as well, so at the end of the day, it's pick your poison if you want red-dot or holo or go with a traditional scope and hope it works for all scenarios, with offset irons for example.
I like how EOtech dot size doesn't increase upon magnification. I also really like the new compact magnifier they just came out with. I just don't have a rifle that needs it at the moment.

I'm no expert on red dot thermal drift, but wasn't EOtech's issue with extreme sub zero temps? And knowing that, wouldn't you just go BUIS if you were hitting some place that cold? Not really an excuse if the drift was as bad as I read, but still a realistic approach to the situation.
 
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I like how EOtech dot size doesn't increase upon magnification. I also really like the new compact magnifier they just came out with. I just don't have a rifle that needs it at the moment.

I'm no expert on red dot thermal drift, but wasn't EOtech's issue with extreme sub zero temps? And knowing that, wouldn't you just go BUIS if you were hitting some place that cold? Not really an excuse if the drift was as bad as I read, but still a realistic approach to the situation.
Thermal Drift - After zeroing the ECOS systems at or near ambient temperature (73°F), the zero position will shift during operating temperature changes. The ECOS systems have the potential to shift approximately +/- 4 Minutes of Angle (MOA) at -40°F and 122°F. Due to thermal drift, the sight may not return to zero. The systems have the potential of approximately a +/- 2 MOA zero shift upon return to ambient (73°F) after being exposed to any temperature between -40°F and 122°F temperatures. Impact to the operators is the sight zero will be affected at varying operating temperatures. Please refer to below table to determine the MOA effect in inches based on target range:

On a nice summer morning if you sighted in and the sun changed putting your optic in direct sunlight, you can experience a 4 MOA shift. After that shift (you pack it up for lunch) the optic does not return to zero, but is now up to 2moa off. Rinse, recycle repeat for the afternoon.

For most of us this doesn't matter, but it really puts the breaks on my willingness to put one on a rifle for the money.
 

ReluctantDecoy

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Thermal Drift - After zeroing the ECOS systems at or near ambient temperature (73°F), the zero position will shift during operating temperature changes. The ECOS systems have the potential to shift approximately +/- 4 Minutes of Angle (MOA) at -40°F and 122°F. Due to thermal drift, the sight may not return to zero. The systems have the potential of approximately a +/- 2 MOA zero shift upon return to ambient (73°F) after being exposed to any temperature between -40°F and 122°F temperatures. Impact to the operators is the sight zero will be affected at varying operating temperatures. Please refer to below table to determine the MOA effect in inches based on target range:

On a nice summer morning if you sighted in and the sun changed putting your optic in direct sunlight, you can experience a 4 MOA shift. After that shift (you pack it up for lunch) the optic does not return to zero, but is now up to 2moa off. Rinse, recycle repeat for the afternoon.

For most of us this doesn't matter, but it really puts the breaks on my willingness to put one on a rifle for the money.
Now that I went back to read it again, I think I was referring more to the cold weather parallax issue that was up to 20 MOA off at 5 degrees Fahrenheit according to the settlement agreement. That's nuts because 5 degrees Fahrenheit isn't extreme cold and a 20 MOA error is terrible.
 
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Now that I went back to read it again, I think I was referring more to the cold weather parallax issue that was up to 20 MOA off at 5 degrees Fahrenheit according to the settlement agreement. That's nuts because 5 degrees Fahrenheit isn't extreme cold and a 20 MOA error is terrible.
Yup.

I really want to like eotech, it's one of those things I always wanted on a nice sbr, but with those numbers they aren't worth the money.
 

mav

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Thermal Drift - After zeroing the ECOS systems at or near ambient temperature (73°F), the zero position will shift during operating temperature changes. The ECOS systems have the potential to shift approximately +/- 4 Minutes of Angle (MOA) at -40°F and 122°F. Due to thermal drift, the sight may not return to zero. The systems have the potential of approximately a +/- 2 MOA zero shift upon return to ambient (73°F) after being exposed to any temperature between -40°F and 122°F temperatures. Impact to the operators is the sight zero will be affected at varying operating temperatures. Please refer to below table to determine the MOA effect in inches based on target range:

On a nice summer morning if you sighted in and the sun changed putting your optic in direct sunlight, you can experience a 4 MOA shift. After that shift (you pack it up for lunch) the optic does not return to zero, but is now up to 2moa off. Rinse, recycle repeat for the afternoon.

For most of us this doesn't matter, but it really puts the breaks on my willingness to put one on a rifle for the money.
Sure... so what is this optic being used for? Mount it and zero at 70 degrees. Put it in the trunk and on a hot summer day, it hits 120+. Pull it out and shoot and you could be on zero to off by 4 MOA at 100 yards. That is 1-4" at 100, 2-16" at 400 yards. Here is the reality: most CQB zeros are at 50 yards and under, which means with thermal drift you are at most 2" off target at 50 yards. Shooting center mass at torso-sized targets at 50 yards and under you have plenty of room for mistakes, so still very effective at CQB, especially with the field of view, 2-eye open shooting style, etc. Do what I said above and run with co-witness irons and a 100 yard zero. Quick adjustment if you find your zero is off and you still need to engage targets out that far. If you want maximum accuracy for longer ranged engangements, choose a different optic, not a red dot or holo. All electronic optics will suffer from Thermal Drift to some extent. I will also go out on a limb and say that at 120 degrees, variations on ammo performance, heat shimmer, etc will also impact accuracy. Then there is the human factor... if we are talking running and gunning, then I doubt the shooter is more accurate than the optic at that point. If I need sub-MOA accuracy, I have an AR-10 with a 9x trijicon scope that with match-grade ammo is plenty accurate. Use the right tool for the job.
 
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I'm wondering what the high end brands are doing to compete with stuff like Vortex and other manufacturers that are 'good enough' for 99% of the users?

Military contracts only go on for so long. CBP has both EOTECH and ACOGS on rifles, but it's not like they are buying thousands of them a year. While we may abuse our gear, even we don't break that stuff often.
 

Mountain

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LOL the cheap Sightmark I have put on a couple of range toys always works and holds up to .458 socom and 300 blackout. Yes, I get laughed at during board meetings for mall ninja club but by saving ~4 Benjamins I can take it.

Not trolling, but if you need irons for back-up, why not just use irons? I can see the usefulness of optics for competition, but that's just a higher level version of range toy. To each his own but for home defense I just keep it simple and at most have tritium (iron) sights on SD guns.
 

mav

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LOL the cheap Sightmark I have put on a couple of range toys always works and holds up to .458 socom and 300 blackout. Yes, I get laughed at during board meetings for mall ninja club but by saving ~4 Benjamins I can take it.

Not trolling, but if you need irons for back-up, why not just use irons? I can see the usefulness of optics for competition, but that's just a higher level version of range toy. To each his own but for home defense I just keep it simple and at most have tritium (iron) sights on SD guns.
2 is 1 and 1 is none.

Nothing wrong with range toys or skin flinting, though I sometimes question when someone spends X on a rifle and then skimps on the optic. In my case, spent $1500 for a Tavor, didn’t think twice about spending $600 on an Eotech, especially after years of quality use on other carbines.
 
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Mountain

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2 is 1 and 1 is none.

Nothing wrong with range toys or skin flinting, though I sometimes question when someone spends X on a rifle and then skimps on the optic. In my case, spent $1500 for a Tavor, didn’t think twice about spending $600 on an Eotech, especially after years of quality use on other carbines.
Missing the point. For close quarters self defense, why use an optic at all? Yeah, for long distance shooting get a high quality optic and don't skinflint. Putting an optic on a self defense pistol is idiotic. I realize all may not agree but I feel the same way for a self defense carbine. For rifles I may be on the extreme end here, but if my life depended on it and I never had to shoot more than 100 yards? Iron sights on a rifle as well.

But the military uses optics! Yes, and with great success but that doesn't apply to personal and home self defense.

I'd love to have a Tavor and yeah- why go cheap on the optic. I think a Tavor would be excellent for home defense, and I wouldn't put an optic on it for that. Maybe a tritium front post. [smile]
 
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Missing the point. For close quarters self defense, why use an optic at all? Yeah, for long distance shooting get a high quality optic and don't skinflint. Putting an optic on a self defense pistol is idiotic. I realize all may not agree but I feel the same way for a self defense carbine. For rifles I may be on the extreme end here, but if my life depended on it and I never had to shoot more than 100 yards? Iron sights on a rifle as well.

But the military uses optics! Yes, and with great success but that doesn't apply to personal and home self defense.

I'd love to have a Tavor and yeah- why go cheap on the optic. I think a Tavor would be excellent for home defense, and I wouldn't put an optic on it for that. Maybe a tritium front post. [smile]


Just asking, have you ever used an Eotech? Different than any other optic I have ever used. Love mine on my Tavor X95. I have the green (1 moa/65 moa) Dot/Circle option and would purchase it again. But to each their own.

20190320_113509.jpg20190320_113641.jpg
 

Mountain

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Just asking, have you ever used an Eotech? Different than any other optic I have ever used. Love mine on my Tavor X95. I have the green (1 moa/65 moa) Dot/Circle option and would purchase it again. But to each their own.

View attachment 342261View attachment 342260
Yes, I think they are awesome as far as optics go. Not slamming EOTechs at all, just expressing a difference in philosophy for self defense. I'm in the 'if it can break, it will' camp. Also for self defense I don't like anything that relies on batteries.
 
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Yes, I think they are awesome as far as optics go. Not slamming EOTechs at all, just expressing a difference in philosophy for self defense. I'm in the 'if it can break, it will' camp. Also for self defense I don't like anything that relies on batteries.
I agree on the battery part. One thing i liked about the quick disconnect ver of the EoTech that I got is that it co-witness to the pop up sights and the FOV is large enough for them to be usable.
 
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