• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Amend 2A...

Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
4,842
Likes
2,705
Feedback: 19 / 0 / 0
... to strike the superfluous clause, "A well regulated Militia", leaving, "Being necessary to the security of a Free State, the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms shall not be infringed."

GOAL posted this on my FB feed. The left-wing Statists hang there entire argument for gun control on those 4 words. What if we could get rid of them?

http://cognoscenti.wbur.org/2015/10/14/gun-violence-second-amendment-scotus-andrew-grainger

I think there is a better change of removing those than the left-wingers changing "shall not be infringed" to "shall be legislated by Congress".

Thoughts?
 
You do realize what it takes to amend the constitution, don't you? We don't have the votes, just as the antis don't have enough to get their version through.
 
The Supreme Court already defined that clause as an INDIVIDUAL RIGHT, not a COLLECTIVE RIGHT. Just tell the liberals to read Heller vs. DC or MacDonald vs. Chicago.
 
maybe make it a lowercase 'p' in People as well....the capital P makes them think it's a collective right....whatever the **** a collective right is.
 
For some reason, the libtards believe that the "people" in the 1A aren't the same "people" in the 2A.

Amendment I: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

You all know the 2A. [wink]
 
It does not say the right of the states to arm militias, or the right to arm militias shall not be infringed. It says the right of the people which is recognized as being an individual right in the other amendments and it is also in the 2nd. The enemies of liberty just like to make up their own versions of things.
 
Why the hell is a RKBA organization wasting their time posting stupid shit like that?

ETA misunderstood, I thought they wrote the article, lol
 
All valid points, and I agree that a Stalemate might be sufficient for Freedom. But if we could just get rid of those 4 words at the beginning...

Wishful thinking.
 
You do realize what it takes to amend the constitution, don't you? We don't have the votes, just as the antis don't have enough to get their version through.

Yes, 2/3 of both houses, or 2/3 of States at a Convention, then 3/4 of State legislatures to ratify. President is COMPLETELY UNINVITED TO THIS PROCESS.

So really, 38 State who want something can get an Amendment. From the other thread, there are 24 asking to nullify State AWB.

Just day dreaming...
 
The militia argument just makes no sense. If it read, "A well-balanced breakfast, being necessary to a healthy population, the right of the people to keep and cooks eggs, shall not be infringed" then no one would argue that it was the breakfast's right to the eggs, or that you could only eat them as breakfast but not part of other meals, or that only certain eggs should be allowed, etc.

People pushing the militia angle just want to confiscate. If that interpretation were to come to pass, I imagine the number of militias would sky rocket over night. [smile]

Don't even get me started on the "it's for hunting" argument...
 
The militia argument just makes no sense. If it read, "A well-balanced breakfast, being necessary to a healthy population, the right of the people to keep and cooks eggs, shall not be infringed" then no one would argue that it was the breakfast's right to the eggs, or that you could only eat them as breakfast but not part of other meals, or that only certain eggs should be allowed, etc.

People pushing the militia angle just want to confiscate. If that interpretation were to come to pass, I imagine the number of militias would sky rocket over night. [smile]

Don't even get me started on the "it's for hunting" argument...

I'm with you, but read the article, the Antis try to use the same grammar logic, but with a different sentence.

“Your job interview having been scheduled on this rainy day, you may use my car.”

Of course, for it to be truly comparable, it would say

“Transportation being necessary to the procurement of a job, the Right of the People to own and drive cars shall not be infringed.”
 
Last edited:
Can we whack the "Commerce Clause" while we are at it? That thing has been abused to no freakin end.
 
Bill needs to edit this down to the last part where he talks about limiting 1A to quill and ink. I doubt that the people who really need to see this last until that part.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
interesting article found here:

http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/201...second-amendment-would-not-abolish-any-right/


Following the recent school shooting in Connecticut, American citizens have once again displayed their total ignorance concerning the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Second Amendment. Facebook postings, comments to so-called news articles and letters to the editor are calling for repeal of the Second Amendment. These individuals believe the right to own a firearm is based on the Second Amendment and the right will vanish if the Amendment can be repealed. Unless the Second Amendment created the right, then repeal of the Amendment cannot constitutionally abolish the right.

Following the Federal [Constitutional] Convention of 1787 and the subsequent ratification of the Constitution in 1788, the several States began submitting amendments to Congress for consideration. By September of 1789, Congress had reduced approximately 210 separate amendments to 12. The amendments were inserted into a congressional resolution and submitted to the several States for consideration. Of these, numbers 2-12 were ratified by the States in 1791 and became the so-called Bill of Rights.

A little known fact about this resolution is that it contained a preamble declaring the purpose of the proposed amendments. Most modern editions of the Bill of Rights either do not contain the preamble or only include the last paragraph. The most important paragraph is the first one because it discloses the intent of the proposed amendments.

A review of this paragraph shows that the sole purpose of the proposed amendments was to prevent the federal government from “misconstruing or abusing its powers.” To accomplish this, “further declaratory and restrictive clauses” were being proposed. The amendments, if adopted, would place additional restraints or limitations on the powers of the federal government to prevent that government from usurping its constitutional powers. Every clause of the Bill of Rights, without exception, is either a declaratory statement or a restrictive provision.

If the Bill of Rights had granted rights, then the word “granted” would have to appear each and every time a right was being established. A review of the Bill of Rights shows that the word “granted” does not appear in any Amendment.

In reality, the Bill of Rights placed additional or secondary restraints on the powers of the federal government concerning the rights of the people and powers reserved to the States. That is why the words “no,” “not” and “nor” appear throughout the Amendments instead of the word “granted.”

Since the Second Amendment did not create or grant any right concerning firearms, the right enumerated in the Amendment has to be an existing right separate from the Amendment. Thus, repealing the Second Amendment would not eliminate any right because the right enumerated in the Amendment was not created by the Amendment. The right to keep and bear arms exists independent of the Constitution or the Second Amendment.

In order to help explain this constitutional principle, I reluctantly decided to reference a United States Supreme Court case from 1875. Normally, I would not cite a court case to support a constitutional principle because too many opinions do not reflect the true intent of the Framers. However, I decided to make an exception because this decision states this constitutional principle clearly and concisely and has never been overturned.

In the case of United States v Cruikshank, the United States Supreme Court held that the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights were not granted by the Amendments and are not dependent upon the Constitution for their existence. The Court also ruled that the Amendments were restraints on the powers of the federal government and it is the duty of States to secure the individual rights of the American people.

One of the most definitive and succinct interpretations of the Second Amendment is found in the Court’s second holding:


“The right there specified is that of ‘bearing arms for a lawful purpose.’ This is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The Second Amendment declares that it shall not be infringed: but this, as has been seen, means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress. This is one of the amendments that has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the National [Federal] Government…”

The Second Amendment did not create or grant any right to keep and bear arms. It placed an additional restraint on the powers of the federal government concerning the existing right to keep and bear arms. Thus, all a repeal could do, from a federal standpoint, is remove the secondary restraint imposed on federal power by the Amendment. And since many States have a right to keep and bear arms clause in their constitution, separate and apart from the Federal Constitution or the Second Amendment, the existence or non-existence of the Second Amendment would not affect the right because the federal government was not granted and does not have the general power to abolish a natural or individual right secured by a State Constitution.

Note: There is a school of thought that the Fourteenth Amendment made, through a doctrine known as incorporation, the Second Amendment applicable to the individual States. Since the Second Amendment did not create a right, then repeal of the Amendment could not abolish the right in the individual States through the Fourteenth Amendment.
 
It's not necessarily a flaw but it is something that also has been interpreted in a way the govt. wants and is easily exploited by a corrupt govt.

Recent rulings have started to correct it but there is still a LONG way to go. The raisin ruling last term was good but it's sad it's needed. They still need to kill the corn/wheat whatever ruling that blew open the commerce clause meaning back in the New deal era.
 
Recent rulings have started to correct it but there is still a LONG way to go. The raisin ruling last term was good but it's sad it's needed. They still need to kill the corn/wheat whatever ruling that blew open the commerce clause meaning back in the New deal era.

I don't see that happening short of revolution. The "commerce" and "general welfare" clauses underpin almost everything the FedGov does these days that are blatantly unconstitutional. There were many complaints back prior to the ratification of the Constitution that said these clauses were dangerous, but the framers argued that it didn't mean what the opponents thought.
 
Back
Top Bottom