Ak47

[drgrant]

I didn't say throw them away, I said don't bring them to MA. You can take your chances if you want -

That's basically what you are suggesting- without documentation, that it's not a good idea to possess the mags.... well, guess what, 99 out of 100 times, you're not going to have documentation. All you really have to rely upon is often anecdotal information about the magazines in question- whether its your own personal historical knowledge about the mags in question, or the word of a dealer or gunsmith. (which may or may not be correct. )

I choose to err on the side of caution. Rollseyes right back at 'cha.

Then you don't use preban mags at all then? (Because by your logic, that's really the only way to be safe, most of the time- just use 10 rounds or less! ) More for the rest of us, I guess.

Just out of curiosity - if (God forbid) you were to get jammed up for having an "illegal" high-cap mag and you couldn't prove that it was pre-ban what would you do? It's just not worth it IMHO.

Conversely, how would they prove it wasn't pre-ban, absent obvious indicators/evidence of such manufacture?

ETA: This whole question illustrates that everyone has a different comfort level regarding this issue. IMO everyone should read the law, learn what goes on the ground, and make their own decisions based on that. There is no clear line in the sand on this one, especially regarding steel AK mags....

-Mike

 

[fubar]

An AK47 is a select fire weapon restricted by the Feds.

Lots of people around here have civilian legal variations that are perfectly legal to own with the right card from the local police. The common Romanian version mentioned above is the WASR-10 , modified by an American importer to be legally cool re: some Act ....

The reason people are more proud of their AR-15's is because they are more accurate , more customizable to suit individual needs , American , better ergonomics , faster to operate , and of course more expensive.

There were a bunch of rumors flying around a while back that Romania shut down the only factory making them.

 

[jasons]

That's basically what you are suggesting- without documentation, that it's not a good idea to possess the mags....

Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying. In my opinion it's not a good idea to possess any "questionable" stuff in MA. I keep my "questionable" stuff at a buddy's house in NH. Paranoid? Maybe, but I can deal with that. (Again, just my opinion.)

well, guess what, 99 out of 100 times, you're not going to have documentation. All you really have to rely upon is often anecdotal information about the magazines in question- whether its your own personal historical knowledge about the mags in question, or the word of a dealer or gunsmith. (which may or may not be correct. )

It's the "may not be correct" part I'd be worried about. We've seen threads right here on NES where dealers have sold "pre-ban" mags that could not have possibly been pre-ban. There was a thread just a few months ago where a guy bought a Sig p226 mag in a caliber (.357SIG) that wasn't even produced until after the ban. It wasn't Carl or anyone at Four Seasons in that case but that's not really the point - the point is that if you "take the dealer's word for it" (whoever that dealer may be) you could unknowingly be committing a felony. It's up to you to decide if it's worth it. To me the answer is hell no. (The guy in question destroyed the mag in his wood stove as I recall.)

Conversely, how would they prove it wasn't pre-ban, absent obvious indicators/evidence of such manufacture?

If it went to a jury trial you may prevail (or you may not.) Best case is it's going to cost you a bunch of dough to lawyer up and fight. Worst case some anti-gun activist judge makes and example of you. (In MA? Say it ain't so....)

Anyway, it's just not worth it IMHO. YMMV, IANAL, ETC.....

 

[jasons]

This whole question illustrates that everyone has a different comfort level regarding this issue. IMO everyone should read the law, learn what goes on the ground, and make their own decisions based on that. There is no clear line in the sand on this one, especially regarding steel AK mags....

-Mike

Good advice. This is basically what I was trying to get at, though admittedly I was over simplifying things a bit. My point: be careful - I'd just really hate to see a fellow NESer go to jail for something so stupid as having a "banned" mag.


(I love Heinlein's stuff by the way. I think it was "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel" that first got me into sci-fi way back in the day. I still remember the "tax jar" on the counter thing - I only wish taxes were that simple....)

 

[FalArAk]

If you can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's pre-ban then you shouldn't have it in MA. If you get jammed up saying "my gun dealer told me it was cool" is probably not going to impress the DA....

So do I go back to the shop and ask for some kind of documentation?

I would if I were you. He should understand.

I think Carl keeps all his pre-ban documentation in the back room...Sometimes he doesn't want to dig it out,but you have to be aggressive with him when it comes to stuff like that..Don't settle for any photo copied documentation either,get the hard copy.The pre-ban copies of the pre-ban mags documentation is kind of hard to come by in MA,don't let up!

 

[Dench]

Wow. This thread is so gay.

Some of you people are your own worse enemies.

 

[saltydude]

Guys, I think your paranoia is getting the best of you. I understand you can't be too carefull in Mass when it comes to preban mags & evil features on rifles etc.
Throughout the years I've come to find the average law enforcement rep doesn't know shit about gun laws compared to civilians because there not subjected to them like we are. Realistically the only way you are going to get in troughble for banned items is if you use them to commit a crime & the incident & all your equipment is analyzed in a court of law.
In most cases, if your mags arent stamped or dated, noone can prove if their pre or post ban. Just try to follow the laws to the best of your abilities. Especially when it comes to transportation (triggerlocks on rifles, seperate from the ammo etc.) because that's when your most exposed.

 

[drgrant]

Just try to follow the laws to the best of your abilities. Especially when it comes to transportation (triggerlocks on rifles, seperate from the ammo etc.) because that's when your most exposed.

It's worth noting that trigger locks are worthless for complying with MA transport laws. "Secure Containers" and locked trunks only. (Unless rifle/shotgun of low capacity, although many recommend just storing everything to the higher standard anyways.) Yes, I agree that "safe storage laws" are probably the single biggest legal risk to a gun owner in MA, because it is very easy to run afoul of the law- and once in awhile, it actually does get enforced, with often disastrous consequences for the gun owner.

-Mike

 

[Twigg]

Guys, I think your paranoia is getting the best of you.

Yep.

 

[flintoid]

Wow. This thread is so gay.

Some of you people are your own worse enemies.

your attitude, it's

kawl the polleece

 

[jasons]

Guys, I think your paranoia is getting the best of you.

Sometimes I think you're right, but then I see stuff like THIS and I come to my senses. You call it paranoia and I call it situational awareness....


"It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you."

 

[drumenigma]

Wow. This thread is so gay.

Some of you people are your own worse enemies.

+ a million. It's sad but this is what MA laws does to people. It makes them afraid to do anything for fear of being prosecuted.

 

[Tim94gt]

I didn't say throw them away, I said don't bring them to MA. You can take your chances if you want - I choose to err on the side of caution. Rollseyes right back at 'cha.

Just out of curiosity - if (God forbid) you were to get jammed up for having an "illegal" high-cap mag and you couldn't prove that it was pre-ban what would you do? It's just not worth it IMHO.

I might be wrong but I was under the impression that it is the responsibility of the State to prove that the mag was manufactured after September 13, 1994.

 

[BenDover]

There are double stack 10 round mags available I bought some ($10ea) and actually prefer shooting with them. I am fairly confident that the WASR's came with mags that are older than god, and are MA legal, however as someone pointed out police don't always know the law and you could get jacked up by someone who simply does not know any better. Once you arrested for something there is a lot of pressure to have an arrestable offence or the town could face a lawsuit.

My feeling is that going to and from the range is where you have the potential for a run in...so why not just use the 10 rounders? If you're gonna do a pumpkin shoot or get a zombie infestation then break out the 30's. If the police break into your house because a "thought crime" then they will no doubt try to use any hicap mags (preban or not) against you....they used batons and double edged knives against the guy in Mancheter and they are 1000000% legal to posess.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I'll be back shortly . . . I have to buy out the store of tin foil!

I really think that some should get rid of all their guns/mags/ammo and take up crocheting (no sharp needles)!

 

[HooVooLoo]

I'll be back shortly . . . I have to buy out the store of tin foil!

I really think that some should get rid of all their guns/mags/ammo and take up crocheting (no sharp needles)!

LenS! *smack* Crochet needles are actually "needles" with hooks on the end. No sharp pointy things.

Oh, wait, you mean they already don't have pointy....umm....

*runs out of room and slams door*

 

[drgrant]

Speaking of tinfoil.... I think I just hit the jackpot.... OMG... GOLD MINE!

 

[Len-2A Training]

So Mike, what's her NES username?

 

[BenDover]

Everyone has different levels of risk they are willing to accept. If my idea of fun was dumping 30rd mags on pumpkins then I might be more willing to accept the risk of carting around 30rd mags. I tend to shoot appleseed targets and find that the 30 rounders interfere too much in some of the positions, I like 10's better....no reason for me to accept any risk at all.

AK mags are not like AR mags when it comes to determining age. Most AR mags have markings that make it obvious. Most AK mags have no markings at all. You could have a pristine mag that was made in 1972 and one that looks like it was made in 1972 be made 5 years ago. I have not found a good source of info on how to date AK mags....if anyone has one then please post a link.

I'll be back shortly . . . I have to buy out the store of tin foil!

I really think that some should get rid of all their guns/mags/ammo and take up crocheting (no sharp needles)!

 

[Len-2A Training]

Umm, almost none of my AR mags have date markings on them . . . and they were all purchased during (or very shortly after) the Fed Ban. I guess I need to be very afraid!

Granted that every third world country made AK mags and I've never seen any of them marked in any way, but I'm not totally paranoid like some around here.

 

[99si/mass]

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php/88727-WTS-WASR-10

 

[BenDover]

Umm, almost none of my AR mags have date markings on them . . . and they were all purchased during (or very shortly after) the Fed Ban. I guess I need to be very afraid!

No you just need to look here:

http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/magazines/rawlesfaq.html

Or Here:

http://www.fulton-armory.com/ARMags.htm

or here:

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php/13006-Pre-Ban-AR15-Information-for-those-who-still-live-under-the-AWB

and you will get a pretty good idea when your mags were made. I would like to see similar pages for AK mags and maybe I would not be so paranoid! Even then I would only keep the 30's for shooting zombies

 

[Len-2A Training]

I hope you don't own any Glocks!

That's a can of worms that is likely to push you over the edge.

 

[drumenigma]

I can't imagine that a prosecutor would do hours worth of research to try to determine if an AK, AR or any other magazine were pre ban assuming it was not blatantly obvious. Like Lens said often times it is basically impossible to determine it and the tinfoil hats are not needed(for most anyways).

 

[fubar]

All my firearms were designed for Normal Capacity magazines. That's what I put in mine. I make every realistic "no tinfoil" effort to remain compliant , of course.

 

[Twigg]

*runs out of room and slams door*

Threads like this have the same effect on me too. Sometimes.

 

[bfm]

. I have not found a good source of info on how to date AK mags.

I start by buying them a drink and asking what their sign is.

 

[Zappa]

All my firearms were designed for Normal Capacity magazines. That's what I put in mine. I make every realistic "no tinfoil" effort to remain compliant , of course.

Define Normal?
Does that mean what was supplied by the manufacturer when the gun was new?
If so, then normal for a Walther P-38 is 8, normal for a Browning Hi-Power is 13 and normal for a Glock 17 is 17.
But if you're speaking of normal for Massachusetts post 98', then that would be a maximum of 10 for any firearm with a detachable magazine.

 

[jasons]

Look, all flaming, joking, and tinfoil hat references aside, all that I was trying to say is:

In my very humble opinion, and with great respect and deference to the more senior members here, in cases where there is significant potential for legal ambiguity it seems (to me) reasonable to err on the side of caution. I wasn't trying to start a flame war, I was just trying to tell people to be careful and aware. There are dealers and private individuals out there (I'm NOT talking about Carl or anyone else at FS) who are not as careful about the letter of the law as others. This has been well documented multiple times right here on this board. Just be careful. That's all.

 

[theGringo]

... in cases where there is significant potential for legal ambiguity ...

Well, that pretty much sums up the bulk of Massachusetts gun law, right there.