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AK-74?

BearArms

BearArms

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So I've been looking itno getting an AK-74 but everyone I talk to says don't get the Polish Tantal. They can't tell me why though. Its always "just because". So I'll ask you guys. Why not a Tantal and if it is that bad what direction should I go?

Thanks...
 
i have a polish tantal.

the main reason why people say dont get them is becuase CAI apparently put barrels that were made for 5.56x45 and not for 5.45x39 in some of the 1st manufacturing runs.

the problem with that is the 5.45x39 round that it fires will keyhole if its fired out of the wrong barrel. i havent noticed this in mine yet (mine as 1990 on the side).

with all the money you save on the ammo, its well worth buying the gun, seeing what size the barrel is and replacing it if needed, its not a big deal.
 
Nothing wrong with Tantals. CAI ones are looked upon as suspect for the reason Dench mentioned.

Atlantic Firearms has the Interams/high standard assembled Tantals still listed. http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct631.aspx Although it seems thy only have the folders left (they did offer a fixed stock) Interarms builds had (and still do as far as I know) the original Polish Barrels. Atlantic also has Bulgarians listed but I don't know who is doing the builds on them.

Not all parts interchange also. Tantals have a free float gas tube that is not attached to the upper hand guard and has a different hand guard retainer. Not a big deal and butt stocks are interchangeable with others but if you ever choose to change your hand guards out your options are limited and may require a little modifying. Apex gun parts carries tantal parts if you wanted to get some spares. https://www.apexgunparts.com/index.php/cPath/21_65?osCsid=7af85c0862348922abb262ec41e3e48e

Also Tantals dont have a side scope rail if that is your preference to mount any optic.

If money is not an issue and I didn't live in a ban state I would really like one of the new Saiga Legion 5.45 that are coming in. I have seen some people mentioning price is a little high (the newness factor plus where else can you get a Russian made 74) and its possible with some patience prices may come down or you can get a lightly used one later for cheaper. Their Saiga Legion 7.62's have been good quality and people have been happy. Overall fit and finish should be very good. They are being sold through KVAR at the moment. http://www.arsenalinc.com/sgl31.htm
 
As stated, the problem lies with the builder not the rifle itself. I have one that I built off of an AK-builder flat that is one of my favorite AKs. If built properly it is a fine rifle.
 
kristo said:
I am curious... what's in a AK kit and what do you need to complete the rifle? My assumption is that it's a complete kit and you only need a receiver, but I have not seen anyone selling AK receivers...
Click to expand...

http://www.nodakspud.com/page2.htm for receivers.

Usually there is everything needed to build minus receiver and US Parts for 922 compliance. (you may need rivets and pins too for the trunions etc) You can check the build it yourself section in forums, I am not sure anyone has documented a build soup to nuts.
 
Atlantic also has Bulgarians listed but I don't know who is doing the builds on them.
Click to expand...

I believe the first batch of these were built by Tennessee Guns and widely varied in the fit/finish. I was looking into buy one earlier this year and during my research I read that welds and rivets were sloppy among other issues. I do not know if these problems have been corrected, but sites like The AK Forum and AK Files have threads on this subject.


Another option is the Arsenal SLR-105. Some models of this rifle were sold without a bayo lug and with a welded muzzle nut. These usually range from $800- $1200.
 
JSYAK, I have a Tantal kit sitting around the house somewhere of which I may be interested in selling it.
To answer your question, the phenomena has arisen of which incorrect barrels were used in some AK74 style builds. Over the course of the past 12yrs. and firing many tens of thousands of 5.45X39 ammo, we also encountered a round of Barnual .223 that was neck sized down in a 5.45 die. it was quite strange to see. In other words at the factory they mixed in a .223 case in the 5.45 cases being loaded. Quite sight.
We fired some Tantals. They are just great. You'll love the 5.45. It's a blast.
 
I have 2 tantals, not from kits. The barrel problem is apparently an old problem which would cause the bullets to keyhole or tumble before impact. I have had no problems with mine and the ammo is so cheap it really makes them worth buying. Another ak-74 that I like is the Sar2 if you can find one. I stumbled on one over the summer, has the ak wood furniture unlike the tantal bakelite.
sidenote: S&W makes an AR in the 5.45 x 39 round.
 
ahull123 said:
I have 2 tantals, not from kits. The barrel problem is apparently an old problem which would cause the bullets to keyhole or tumble before impact. I have had no problems with mine and the ammo is so cheap it really makes them worth buying. Another ak-74 that I like is the Sar2 if you can find one. I stumbled on one over the summer, has the ak wood furniture unlike the tantal bakelite.
sidenote: S&W makes an AR in the 5.45 x 39 round.
Click to expand...

Alright I know I should prob know this but what is "keyhole"?
 
We tested a number of AK74 of various origin and one of the S&W uppers for the M16/AR15 of which we put three one gallon water jugs in a row and between the first and second/second and third jugs we put a large piece of 1/4" plywood. The 5.45X39 projectile would enter the first jug leaving a tiny hole. The back of the jug would be ripped to shreds. The projectile commonly would blow through the plywood behind it and tear huge gaping hole in the front and back of the second jug. Then it would blow through the second piece of plywood and rip the third jug to shreds too. We would consistently notice the keyholing effect on both pieces of plywood. In one instance, it was perfectly keyholed. The two pieces of plywood in a sense acted as X Ray plates as to what the projectile was doing in motion so clearly by the huge gaping wounds it left in the water jugs and the "X ray" plates, the bullet very consistently tumbles quite violently.
 
RussianWP.jpg
 
Dench: I think those are the stained gelatin test results from Surgeon Fackler. Quite impressive. At a less penetrating point than the 7.62X39, the 5.45 produces far more tissue damage. Compare them both up to 20-22 cm's.

JD: What distance was this at and were the projectiles tumbling in mid air or were they shot through something?

Excellent posts.
 
Unfortunately not my pic, but I have read peoples range reports of keyholing as close as about 10 yards. The keyholing issues that people were having with some CAI builds were that the rounds were just tumbling in air.
 
I had a Galil model AR some years back that did that with some Wolf .223. I then pulled some of the bullets, measured them with a caliper and found the diameter to be .221 and .222.
Wonder if that CAI 5.45 rifle had a .223 barrel as described in some of the above posts. Pretty neat photo.
 
bodybagsryan said:
Over the course of the past 12yrs. and firing many tens of thousands of 5.45X39 ammo, we also encountered a round of Barnual .223 that was neck sized down in a 5.45 die. it was quite strange to see. In other words at the factory they mixed in a .223 case in the 5.45 cases being loaded. Quite sight.
We fired some Tantals. They are just great. You'll love the 5.45. It's a blast.
Click to expand...

Interesting - Ezekiel had a round of 5.45 mixed in with his .223 at the NES Independence Day Shoot and I do believe it was Barnual. It messed up the works in his FS2000 and I never did hear how he got it cleared...
 
Too bad. I shot the FS's but did not have any cases that stuck in the chamber. I'll have to pull the M16 out of moth balls and see what happens when I chamber a 5.45 round in a 5.56 chamber. Will report later.
Too bad about it being Barnual. Other than the above, we had great luck with this ammo in 5.45, 7.62X39 and .223.
 
I read somewhere that the old barrels of the tantals with problems, would not have issues as long as the mil-surp rounds were used (53 grain), the heavier wolf (70 grain) or other brands were the ones that produced the keyholes consistently.
 
MassMark said:
Interesting - Ezekiel had a round of 5.45 mixed in with his .223 at the NES Independence Day Shoot and I do believe it was Barnual. It messed up the works in his FS2000 and I never did hear how he got it cleared...
Click to expand...

man that must of been a disaster. lucky that thing didnt fire, im sure that could of caused some damage...
 

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