A friend of a friend got a call from BATF regarding his off-list purchase

[Admin]

It has come to the attention of various parties in the state of MA that the BATFE has become interested in people who have transferred firearms and long arms from third party sellers to themselves through Tite-Group Sporting. The legal issues at Tite-Group have been known for some time, the newer development is the involvement by BATFE knocking on the doors of law abiding guns owners in MA. This effort appears to be a fishing expedition by the BATFE and is likely aimed at developing evidence against Tite Group.

What appears to also be of interest is transactions taking place between sellers who bought a gun transferred at Tite Group and any downstream buyer.
Though these sales are perfectly legal under many circumstances, there are circumstances where these sales are not. It is impossible to list here all of the possible variations and gyrations that make a sale prohibited from a sale that isn't. Therefore it is important for you to know what your rights are.

You should remember that you are under no obligation to provide information to the police or ATF and you have the right to decline to discussing anything, no matter how minor it is, with authorities and ask for contact information. You should then contact an attorney who can further assist you in evaluating your specific situation and provide competent counsel on what you should do next. This cold blustery evening would be a good opportunity to review the you tube videos entitled "Don't talk with the police".

Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1 - YouTube
Don't Talk to Cops, Part 2 - YouTube


Please forward this to your friends, family and fellow gun club members.

 

[bullseye]

Place highly competent firearms attorney phone numbers in speed dial.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

To further what Derek posted, DO NOT LIE TO FEDERAL AGENTS!!! that is a seperate charge in it self and it is a FELONY. Unless they show up with a warrant. Just tell them to go away. I would not even let them inside the door. Then Call YOUR LAWYER!!!!

Good post. Agreed 100%

This could be a messy situation but we need to stick together. Definitely keep lawyers on speed dial.

 

[Infinite Jester]

I second the "Don't talk to the police" video watching. For those that haven't seen it, watch it. It could save you someday.

 

[WatchCityCPA]

To further what Derek posted, DO NOT LIE TO FEDERAL AGENTS!!! that is a seperate charge in it self and it is a FELONY. Unless they show up with a warrant. Just tell them to go away. I would not even let them inside the door. Then Call YOUR LAWYER!!!!

While I find Martha Stewart less than sympathetic, she did go to jail for lying about insider stock transactions that were not going to land her in jail had she just fessed up, and... drumroll...

http://sentencing.typepad.com/files/marshall-article-on-2a-and-felon-gun-possession.pdf

she is now a federally prohibited person.

If jail time does not impress you... this should. Just do not lie to the feds - they will prosecute for that, whether the conduct you lied about was illegal or not.

 

[xtry51]

Please heed this advice. Do not tell them anything and call a lawyer IMMEDIATELY.

 

[vipprimo]

If someone didn't have a lawyer in MA, who would be the best person to contact?

 

[Hush]

Shouldn't this be a state issue, and not involve the BATFE? This isn't the first time I've heard of them being used to do Marsha's dirty work. There was a FFL on the north shore who was defiantly transferring "non-compliant" handguns until he received multiple BATFE "audits"

 

[jar]

Shouldn't this be a state issue, and not involve the BATFE? This isn't the first time I've heard of them being used to do Marsha's dirty work. There was a FFL on the north shore who was defiantly transferring "non-compliant" handguns until he received multiple BATFE "audits"

Federal law says ffls must follow all relevant state laws.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Palladin]

+1

 

[swatgig]

If someone didn't have a lawyer in MA, who would be the best person to contact?

COMM2A.org

 

[WatchCityCPA]

If someone didn't have a lawyer in MA, who would be the best person to contact?

This thread comes to mind.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...husetts-lawyers-specializing-firearm-law.html

I'd personally recommend Keith Langer, but do your own homework... AHEAD OF TIME.

 

[atilla]

COMM2A.org

though they need to dump cohen off their list after his antics.

 

[ntomsw]

.

 

[Boris]

serious question, if you had a couple of agents come by and you tell them to **** off without a warrant, what's the point of calling an attorney? The feds aren't spilling beans upfront on the purpose of their visit, so you'll likely have no idea why they really came in the first place. Does an attorney have some magic reading abilities to see what the agents wanted from you?

The reason I am saying this, I'm not against calling an attorney, but they are not exactly cheap and if feds are just fishing for any info, is it worth it if no useful information could be gained in regard to the purpose of the visit.

 

[swatgig]

According to the article, Wheelock is charged with "six counts of illegal firearm sales". I suspect there are only six counts because whomever allegedly purchased those six firearms are cooperating, and that if there are other sales recorded in the logs, he wasn't charged with those sales.

So if someone comes knocking on your door asking if you purchased a Nimbus 2000 from Voldemort, and you honestly answer "yes", you may wind up an unwilling witness in the trial of Voldemort for the illegal sale of the Nimbus 2000.

Keep your mouth shut, and don't let them in,.

 

[xtry51]

You call your lawyer and get him or her on board as to what is going on. Then your lawyer will most likely tell you, To say to the Agents, Here is my attorney's phone number call him or her, if you wish to speak with me. Now they can no longer waste your valuable time.

Case law, Once you invoke your request for a lawyer, they are all done speaking with you.

This is why you do it. The cops want YOU to talk. They can't get anything from your lawyer.

 

[newenglandjeff]

Is there any specific time frame that they are looking at? I'll be sure to have my video camera ready

 

[Boris]

the other thing to keep in mind, agents aren't dumb and most of them doing this for years. There are million of ways to get into your house, may be when you are not home and a uniformed statie pulls up and starting asking your wife about what kind of car you are driving etc. not say shit, ask to come in, have another guy look around your house for illegal shit in plain sight, and this being mAss too many things are illegal like a spend .22 shell on the floor. Police can lie or use "cunning" and that's on ****ing record. Off-record a more wild shit goes down. May be another thread is warranted to get your significant other prepped on how to deal with overzealous agents fishing.

 

[atilla]

May be another thread is warranted to get your significant other prepped on how to deal with overzealous agents fishing.

yes, this is very important. make sure all other members of the household are briefed in case it's fishing day in your neck of the woods.

"got a warrant? no? go away."

however if they have a warrant then you don't really have a choice. get on the phone with a lawyer and also tape the agents and don't let them out of your sight.

 

[flintoid]

Oh, If you really have balls, after you tell them that you are not speaking to them and for them to leave your property and if they don't they are trespassing after notice. Tell them they are now trespassing.

IF you have balls. I do not- I would just want them out of my hair and back in their shitty Daimler Chrysler cars.

Quick question: to have and use - or "offer" a lawyer's number to federal agents, does one have to pay the lawyer ahead of time for this service?

And if you do pull that card, I would assume that your lawyer is "on the clock" and you're going to get billed?

 

[warwickben]

Also ask to see the warrant . So u know what there looking for .

 

[Boris]

Again, it's not as simple as angry agents in jackboots showing up at your door. They will come when you are not home, they will be likeable and sympathetic, make your significant other believe that you've been in a car accident or some trouble without saying the words, get "invited in" and discover things ...

there is much more you need to do to prep your household, much more beside mere "don't talk to cops" shit. You are not dealing with dummies. They have been doing it for years and some are extremely good at it.

yes, this is very important. make sure all other members of the household are briefed in case it's fishing day in your neck of the woods.

"got a warrant? no? go away."

however if they have a warrant then you don't really have a choice. get on the phone with a lawyer and also tape the agents and don't let them out of your sight.

 

[ntomsw]

.

 

[atilla]

Again, it's not as simple as angry agents in jackboots showing up at your door. They will come when you are not home, they will be likeable and sympathetic, make your significant other believe that you've been in a car accident or some trouble without saying the words, get "invited in" and discover things ...

there is much more you need to do to prep your household, much more beside mere "don't talk to cops" shit. You are not dealing with dummies. They have been doing it for years and some are extremely good at it.

this. these dudes are NOT your friends. SO knows that if i'm dead on the side of the road in a mangled wreck that it was probably my fault and the ATF definitely wouldn't be the people coming to tell her.

I think sometimes telling them to **** off can have the opposite effect too. I know you don't want them in your house, but telling them to screw and come back with a warrant, could make them do exactly that. Show up with a warrant 30 minutes later. Just sayin. When you are presented in that situation, things are slightly different, then sitting here typing on a keyboard.

I am sure all of us would do things differently actually being confronted with it.

yup. hard to know what they are fishing for exactly. we have more of an idea now but when it's in the moment? who knows...

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Again, it's not as simple as angry agents in jackboots showing up at your door. They will come when you are not home, they will be likeable and sympathetic, make your significant other believe that you've been in a car accident or some trouble without saying the words, get "invited in" and discover things ...

there is much more you need to do to prep your household, much more beside mere "don't talk to cops" shit. You are not dealing with dummies. They have been doing it for years and some are extremely good at it.

Well said. It sucks but the time has come and it's scary.

 

[Bfatz]

I'd be like " Something I can do for you Gentlemen "

 

[atilla]

I'd be like " Something I can do for you Gentlemen "

i would immediately renounce my JBT status and unroll the banana suit and we'd P-A-R-T-Y.

 

[Boris]

teach ALL your family members no cops in the house, Do not answer any questions. Not even. How are you doing today? The art of questioning and conversation starts with small talk.

right on, everyone has a weak spot and a way in, if you are doing it for years, you can start conversations out of thin air and go from there. They can use threats and completely bogus shit that you may not know about, like telling you that you are required to cooperate you they can arrest you on the spot, shit that is totally silly out of context.

They will get your weakest link to talk, it could be your wife, it could be your kid in school, and they don't have to reveal who they really are, so get ready and prepare beyond just watching the vids. Go through all possible scenarios, and there are many.

 

[swatgig]

telling them to screw and come back with a warrant, could make them do exactly that.

If they have probable cause for a search warrant, they will search with or without your permission. Discussing anything with them will not change anything.

Dont Talk to Police - YouTube

Go watch this video (same as posted earlier - both parts in one video).

You will NOT talk your way out of this if they have enough for a warrant.