9mm vs .380

[C-pher]

OK, here's my thoughts, and please let me know if I'm wrong in this thinking.

But, for close range, I think that the .380 is a better round.

The .380 is really just a 9mm short. So, it's the same round, just slower. Which works to your advantage in short distances. The 9mm is pretty fast 1150 fps where the .380 is about 950 fps.

One would think, in close distances, the faster round would have a greater chance of a through and through. The slower round would have a chance to get in, do more damage, tear up some meat and stay inside.

I know that the .380 is a huge round loved by European Police and such...and I would think that there's a reason. Granted, at a greater distance, the 9mm would have better accuracy.


Anyway, just running through things that I've believed, and now just wondering from something that I read. Not trying to make it up on EC's list....but don't really care if I do.

 

[Nickle]

Not that much difference in them at short range.

C-Pher, I use 115 JHP 9mms for CCW work, and they get kind of ugly.

The bottom line is simple. Either will work at reasonable ranges, IMNSHO.

 

[M1911]

Can't say that I agree with you here. 9mm by itself is a pretty low powered round, on the border of acceptability. .380 is that much worse. There is no evidence that a slower round creates more damage than a faster round, all things being equal. Furthermore, there is at least one test that showed a .380 ACP round penetrated a test gellatin to a distance of 17": http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/380acp.htm

And finally, the 9mm rounds tended to expand to a larger diameter than .380 ACP: http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/9mm.htm

In addition, you have much more choice in guns and ammunition in 9mm than .380.

 

[dixidawg]

OK, here's my thoughts, and please let me know if I'm wrong in this thinking.

But, for close range, I think that the .380 is a better round.

The .380 is really just a 9mm short. So, it's the same round, just slower. Which works to your advantage in short distances. The 9mm is pretty fast 1150 fps where the .380 is about 950 fps.

One would think, in close distances, the faster round would have a greater chance of a through and through. The slower round would have a chance to get in, do more damage, tear up some meat and stay inside.

I know that the .380 is a huge round loved by European Police and such...and I would think that there's a reason. Granted, at a greater distance, the 9mm would have better accuracy.


Anyway, just running through things that I've believed, and now just wondering from something that I read. Not trying to make it up on EC's list....but don't really care if I do.

Depends on what kind of "head" is being fired and whether or not the velocity is enough for adequate expansion.

 

[drgrant]

IMO .380 ACP moves a far too light bullet far too slowly.

The biggest problem with the above is that most .380 JHP's
don't work as intended a result of those two attributes.

If you look at various ballistic testing regimens, .380 ACP fails
most of them pretty miserably. When you get to 9mm luger
velocity with 124 gn+ bullet weights, things start to improve
dramatically. You get bullets that will penetrate and expand
far better. This means ability to reach vitals, bigger holes,
more blood loss, and hopefully a BG that stops his attack
faster.


-Mike

 

[Jose]

Less power is NEVER the answer.

If the 115 grain 9x19 isn't enough, step up to a 125 or 147 +P.

I am a fan of the heaviest bullet I can fit into a case for both self defense and hunting.

That means 158s in 38 Special +P and 357 Magnum, 160 grain round nose in 6.5x55 and 180 grain in 30-06.

 

[drgrant]

For those into "energy dump...."

One other thing that bears mentioning, perhaps... (for those
that look at energy, although I'm not an energy dump nazi
type, but this is still at least mildly interesting nonetheless... )

Speer GDHP .380 / 90 gr:
Muzzle Vel: 980 FPS
Muzzle FPE: 196 ft/lbs

Speer GDHP 9mm 124 gn std pressure
Muzzle Vel:1150
Muzzle FPE: 364 ft/lbs

Speer GDHP 9mm +P 124 gn (FWIW, I like this load!)
Muzzle Vel: 1220 FPS
Muzzle FPE: 410 ft/lbs

Just for shits and giggles, let's look at DoubleTap's .380 load,
probably the hottest on the market..... (I'm sure it HURTS when
you shoot it.... heheh)

Speer GDHP .380 ACP 90 gn... loaded by DoubleTap.
Muzzle Vel: 1100 FPS
Muzzle FPE: 242 ft/lbs

Disclosure: Speer's test barrel in 9mm is 4". In .380 it's 3.75",
doubt if it makes a real difference. DoubleTap's test barrel
is 3.5".

End Note: I don't shop for ammo by virtue of numbers
alone, but these kind of numbers don't help the case for
.380 very much. I'm not saying a .380 won't do damage, by
any means.... but from outward appearances, 9mm is at least an
order of magnitude more powerful- and this isn't even including
the obvious benefits of being able to launch a faster heavier,
and better constructed bullet.

-Mike

 

[Davidk]

A 380 is a 9mm set to "stun."

Even the most powerful handgun round is anemic and has relatively little stopping power. Using a reduced power round is NEVER the answer to increasing stopping power.

9mm is at the lower threshold of what is considered a minimum acceptable defense round. Anything less, is just that; less than acceptable

 

[EddieCoyle]

I know that the .380 is a huge round loved by European Police and such...and I would think that there's a reason.

There is a reason: They are not allowed to carry a 9mm. In many countries it is illegal for civilians to own handguns in military calibers.

 

[Garys]

There is a reason: They are not allowed to carry a 9mm. In many countries it is illegal for civilians to own handguns in military calibers.

Would that include the police? I'd think not, since in some countries they carry machine pistols in 9mm. I distinctly remember seeing the Garda Civil in Spain carrying some sort of automatic weapon. That was back in the 1970s, when they had a lot of unrest in parts of Spain.

Gary

 

[Jose]

the Garda Civil in Spain

Guardia Civil.

Garda is Gaelic.

 

[Garys]

Guardia Civil.

Garda is Gaelic.

Where do you think the Spaniards got it? Remember, they washed up on the shore of Ireland after that Armada thing. Many sailors learned Gaelic as they courted Irish girls. After they married, they returned to the old country with their new brides to meet the new in laws. They brought parts of the Gaelic language back with them. That's how the Gaelic term got into the Spanish language.

This intermarriage is where the term "Black Irish" came from.

Don't you know any history?

Or, I just spelled it wrong. Take your pick.

Gary

 

[M1911]

I know that the .380 is a huge round loved by European Police and such...and I would think that there's a reason.

Whether or not that reason is rational and/or relevant to us folks is another matter entirely.

For example, the US Army had a "reason" when they went from .45ACP to 9mm (NATO commonality). And yet .45ACP is a better pistol round than 9mm, particularly when we are talking about FMJ. For years, the NYC PD would not use JHP, even though JHP is far superior. They had their "reasons", none of which were terribly rational.

Never assume that a government agency (particularly a European agency) made an equipment decision on a rational basis.

 

[Coyote33]

duplicate post to this one?

.380 vs 9mm


You might also find these useful:

COMPACT 9MM

Small 9mm for carry - what to get?

9mm Makarov vs .38 +P

Makarov Holsters (+! S.O.B.)

There is a reason: They are not allowed to carry a 9mm. In many countries it is illegal for civilians to own handguns in military calibers.

Unlike in the USA, where we are not allowed to have guns which are NOT military in purpose (or something like that) according to Miller. Say what?

 

[Jose]

Where do you think the Spaniards got it? Remember, they washed up on the shore of Ireland after that Armada thing. Many sailors learned Gaelic as they courted Irish girls. After they married, they returned to the old country with their new brides to meet the new in laws. They brought parts of the Gaelic language back with them. That's how the Gaelic term got into the Spanish language.

This intermarriage is where the term "Black Irish" came from.

Don't you know any history?

Or, I just spelled it wrong. Take your pick.

Gary

Yes, Celts are one of the many tribes and civilizations that make up modern Spain. Along with the Iberians, Carthagenians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Gauls, Basques, and Moors.

However, the correct spelling in Castillian (Spanish to the non-hispanic world) is Guardia.

 

[Garys]

Humor is just wasted on some people.

Gary

 

[jlotta]

Seriously

 

[Gammon]

The Corbons I use for carry in my 5906 (147 gr bullet at 1160 fps) approach Super/357 magnum ballistics. There is no way a .380 can compare.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I know that the .380 is a huge round loved by European Police and such...and I would think that there's a reason.

At one time, most European police were armed with 32 acp's, the 380 was considered adequate as a BATTLEFIELD round (I believe the Italians used it as their WW II sidearm) and the 9mm was looked at the way WE looked at the 44 magnum - the ultimate handgun cartridge and why would anyone need anything more?

So yeah there's a reason, and it's the same reason the Europeans are so in love with Socialism.

They're out of their freaking minds.

Cordially,
John

 

[Cuz]

A 380 is a 9mm set to "stun."

Thanks Dave. I gotta remember that one, I like it.

-Cuz.

 

[jkelly]

But, for close range, I think that the .380 is a better round.---C-pher

I see no advantage of the .380 over the 9mm at any range. I don’t think the weaker .380 offers any real advantage in recoil reduction. I think the .380 is offered in fewer firearms then the 9mm and its size and weight difference doesn’t really allow you to carry any more ammunition, which is often not a consideration in daily CCW.

That said, my preferred carry piece is a Sig P232 in .380.


Respectfully,

jkelly

 

[Frizz]

Just buy the PPK (or whatever you are looking at that has you thinking like this), and stop trying to rationalize it with an ammo study.

Frizz

 

[Coyote33]

See also:
small pistols


DUPE!

duplicate post to this one?

.380 vs 9mm
...

 

[joehaus]

Buffalo Bore
9mm (+P+) 115gr. Speer Uni Core @ 1400 fps 500 ft. lbs

You won't find any hotter

Fully supported chambers only...Glocks need not apply

 

[45 acp]

When standing in front of the business end of any revolver or pistol the caliber is meer symantics.

 

[codenamepaul]

When standing in front of the business end of any revolver or pistol the caliber is meer symantics.

So says my Ortgies .25, and my PPK/S

5 rounds of anything in the face will make any man stop doing what it was that just got him shot. .44Mag does you no good sitting in the safe

 

[mpd61]

Just buy it!

If you will carry the .380 and can shoot it quite accurately, then do it. 9mm is the more versatile round but who cares? You want a real hard question to answer? try this:

Nissan Maxima with 2.5, 3.0 or 3.5 liter engine?

 

[45collector]

If you will carry the .380 and can shoot it quite accurately, then do it. 9mm is the more versatile round but who cares? You want a real hard question to answer? try this:

Nissan Maxima with 2.5, 3.0 or 3.5 liter engine?

That's irrelevant too. Because no matter your engine size, it's gonna hurt just the same when you hit the guy doing 40mph!!

Seriously though, the 9x19 is obviously more powerful. But if you're proficient and comfy w/ your .380, then carry it with glee. Chances are slim you're going to have to stop someone with it anyhow.

 

[Fsorrent]

Just ask yourself....What would Bond carry? Have fun out there.

 

[45collector]

Just ask yourself....What would Bond carry? Have fun out there.

Bond originally carried a Beretta .25 until Q bitch-slapped him Rick James style and said: "Get your ass together, man."

And Bond's Walther was a .32, I think. Oh hell who cares, I gotta get back to work!!