9mm Makarov vs .38 +P

[vellnueve]

Just wondering, what do people think would be the more effective combination? I can shoot both handguns equally well at 35 feet.

CZ-82 - 12 rounds 9mm Makarov 92gr FMJ

S&W 638 - 5 rounds .38 +P (Remington Golden Sabers)

 

[RKG]

As a general rule, FMJs tend to be ineffective as manstoppers.

Bullet energy at target entrance is a function of the square of bullet velocity at entrance.

Bullet energy at target exit is a function of the square of bullet velocity at exit.

Energy transferred to the target, therefore, is a function of the square of the difference between velocity at entrance and velocity at exit.

A slug that doesn't exit transfers 100% of its energy at impact to the target.

FMJs tend to exit, and to exit with considerable remaining velocity.

Now, there are exceptions. An FMJ that pierces a vital organ (such at the heart) will be more effective than an upsetting slug that hits only muscle in an extremity.

 

[MassMark]

RKG makes great points. I think in addition, you have to think about likely self defense scenarios. If you do some research, you'll find that in most cases, self defense on the streets does not involve Wild West shootouts - it's generally settled in the first shot or two. Personally, I'd rather have my 642CT loaded with Speer GDHP +P 135's do the talking over a 9mm Makarov....YMMV

 

[EddieCoyle]

I prefer a 642 without the CT laser grips loaded with old-school +P soft lead semi wadcutter hollowpoints.

 

[bpm990d]

You can get 115 Brown Bear HP and 95 Gr. HP Silver Bear for the Makarov. The bullet is probably not as well constructed as the GS but I suspect it is much better than the FMJ. The Brown Bear I have is very hot. I ended up getting a Wolf Extra Power spring for the gun. Not sure about the availability of the Brown Bear, but I know the J&G sales has the Silver Bear ammo.

B

 

[Coyote33]

9x18mm Makarov: Not offered from Winchester, Remington, or Federal, this caliber is loaded from Speer in their Gold Dot Hollow Point


Also:
OK, I get the picture...what 9x18M ammo is best?

OK, I get the picture...what 9x18M ammo is best?

Best for what? We make (i.e. reload) the best 9x18M...for us and our Makarovs, but we don't sell it. If you don't feel like reloading (can we talk you into it?), Norinco, Sellier & Bellot, B-West (now defunct), Fiocchi, and CCI Blazer (aluminum case), Tiger, RAM, Barnaul, Novosibirsk, etc. are perfectly OK for normal target shooting and "plinking."

Please see the Load Data page for some chronograph tests on CorBon and Blazers. Some shooters have reported problems extracting Blazers, but they work fine for others. Note that Norinco and some other surplus rounds have steel jacketed bullets and thus are often prohibited at indoor ranges.

Some of the Russian TCW is pretty hot and we recommend changing to a 19# recoil spring. Choices for self-defense include CorBon (discontinued), Barnaul JHP, RAM, Tiger, Novosibirsk JHP, Hornady XTP, CCI-Speer Gold Dot, Fiocchi, and MagSafes. The new Silver Bear has promise, but many people report feeding problems. "Your mileage may vary." Try different loads in your gun and see how they work for you.

Again, with any of these high-performance rounds, you might want to consider a stronger 19# recoil spring (the original is 17#).

 

[Jose]

I prefer a 642 without the CT laser grips loaded with old-school +P soft lead semi wadcutter hollowpoints.

+1, but make mine a 637.

You just cannot beat a 158 grain slug of soft lead with a gaping hole in the front entering the body at around 800 fps.

If you really want to tip this in favor of the revolver, get a S&W Model 60 and load her up with five 158 grain 357 Magnums.

 

[MassMark]

You just cannot beat a 158 grain slug of soft lead with a gaping hole in the front entering the body at around 800 fps.

Well, that opinion is subjective. Though the 158gr offerings are indeed a pocket full of whomp, bullet technology has come a long way. Test data like the one linked below suggest that 158gr slugs are not as clear cut a choice for self defense as you may think - and this study has been polsted for a while. More ballistics tests are out there and many show that the .38 snub offerings are a fairly tight race. I have found the Speer GDHP +P 135gr offering as balance between the recoil and whomp of the 158 and the speed of the 110's. The round has both bark and bite, but is also very "trainable" - 50 to 100 round, (and beyond) range sessions are a much more pleasant experience with the 135's on deck in the Airweight.

38 Special Test Data Link

 

[Jose]

Well, that opinion is subjective. Though the 158gr offerings are indeed a pocket full of whomp, bullet technology has come a long way. Test data like the one linked below suggest that 158gr slugs are not as clear cut a choice for self defense as you may think - and this study has been polsted for a while. More ballistics tests are out there and many show that the .38 snub offerings are a fairly tight race. I have found the Speer GDHP +P 135gr offering as balance between the recoil and whomp of the 158 and the speed of the 110's. The round has both bark and bite, but is also very "trainable" - 50 to 100 round, (and beyond) range sessions are a much more pleasant experience with the 135's on deck in the Airweight.

38 Special Test Data Link

Quoted from your link (which is the one that made me switch from 135 GDHP to 158 LSWCHP)

Load:
Average Expansion (in.):
Average Penetration (in.):

Remington 158-gr. LSWCHP +P
0.580 x 0.565 x 0.479 tall
8 1/2

Speer 135-gr. Gold Dot +P
0.531 x 0.549 x 0.459 tall
7 1/2

Corbon 110-gr. DPX +P
0.522 x 0.524 x 0.502 tall
8

I find this data hardly subjective. The Remington 158 outpenetrates and outexpands the other contenders.

Controlling such load is not a concern since my practice ammo is a 158 gr lead RNFP at 800 fps. I have launched just over 1000 rounds of such reloads through my Airweight since getting it in February, so I am well used to it.

 

[MassMark]

Quoted from your link (which is the one that made me switch from 135 GDHP to 158 LSWCHP)

Load:
Average Expansion (in.):
Average Penetration (in.):

Remington 158-gr. LSWCHP +P
0.580 x 0.565 x 0.479 tall
8 1/2

Speer 135-gr. Gold Dot +P
0.531 x 0.549 x 0.459 tall
7 1/2

Corbon 110-gr. DPX +P
0.522 x 0.524 x 0.502 tall
8

I find this data hardly subjective. The Remington 158 outpenetrates and outexpands the other contenders.

Controlling such load is not a concern since my practice ammo is a 158 gr lead RNFP at 800 fps. I have launched just over 1000 rounds of such reloads through my Airweight since getting it in February, so I am well used to it.

This is not a new study and the data is but one test. Your declaration that the 158gr "cannot be beaten" is subjective. Speer has different results from their corporate literature and other tests have had differing results. Such as this one on The Gun Zone. There's also a fairly thorough test from Handguns Magazine as well - this test did not involve the 135gr Speer, but I used it for a base to explore many different .38 Special offerings.

While we all may be impressed by your prowess with your Airweight, there are many who may not like the recoil, flash and accuracy issue potential with a 158. Some seasoned professionals dislike the recoil of the 158's as well. I'm not so worried about recoil or accuracy really, (I'm a big boy - I can take it). I view my use of my 642 as a "up close and personal" weapon, (0" to 5' - point shooting is my buddy). I have run many 158's - from Buffalo Bore to Winchesters through my 642CT and found them to be a hoot to shoot. Some were even softer on my hand than Speer 135's. However I found the cost to be prohibitive, (1,000 rounds of Speer GDHP 135gr +P for $249.99 shipped) and the accuracy/penetration/power gains to be minimal. Many who may shy away from the 158's for the mentioned reasons may indeed find solace and confidence in the Speer GDHP which is anything but an underpowered round.

 

[Jose]

Funny how in the Handguns magazine test, both 158 +P loads outperformed almost everything else in both bare and clothed penetration tests.

I think I'll stick to my old fashioned lead semi wadcutter HPs.

 

[Coyote33]

I'd throw the .380 Auto in there for comparison's sake also.

Taking a new look at the Makarov lately.

 

[45collector]

Wow what an old thread. But anytime I see the word Makarov I have to jump in because I'm a huge Mak fan!