9mm Dillon resize/decap die issue. UPDATE POST 19: 10/8. DILLON CRIMP DIE ISSUE

[Rate_of_Twist]

Trying to get picture, but I left my phone at work...

Tried to get measurements with my micrometer and my battery died.

Setting up my new 550b with 9mm carbide dies and I have what appears to me to be a very noticeable "bell" to the casing after resizing... You can both feel it an see it. The top 2/3 is very consistent and the bottom 1/3 bells out and seems untouched by the die.

The die was tighten against the shell plate per dillon instructions....

Yes, I know 9mm is a tapered case, but this is a pretty defined "bell" at the bottom 1/3 of the case

 

[highscore]

Sounds like the infamous 'Glocked" brass. Personally I've never experienced it but they say it does exist.

Is this condition you report after just resizing or after a round is complete? 9mm's look like crap after reloading but normally shoot very well. Reminds me of an hourglass shape, large on both the top and bottom and thin in the middle. Do the rounds fit in a case gauge?

 

[*chris*]

Sounds like the infamous 'Glocked" brass. Personally I've never experienced it but they say it does exist.

Is this condition you report after just resizing or after a round is complete? 9mm's look like crap after reloading but normally shoot very well. Reminds me of an hourglass shape, large on both the top and bottom and thin in the middle. Do the rounds fit in a case gauge?

Could it also be "Dilloned" brass? I have read a few places that their resizing die is quite flared at the bottom and can have issues resizing some brass? I don't have any Dillon dies yet, so this is just internet folklore.

Chris

 

[Gammon]

Most dies for progressive machines have a generous flare at the base to ease the case mouth in and enhance reliability. EGW and Lee market "Undersized" dies that minimize this flare to reduce the bulge or belt at the base of the case. I wouldn't worry about the bulge as long as your guns can digest it. Just save some good brass for matches and other special occasions.

 

[Yazz]

Do you have a case gage?

 

[*chris*]

Do you have a case gage?

Not sure why I didn't think of that as mine just showed up this past Wednesday based on wolo's advice! Good idea to start there, although some of my once fired brass feels a hair short.

Chris

 

[EddieCoyle]

It's completely normal.

When you seat a bullet, the top will widen out and you'll have a distinctive skinny 'waist' on the round. Again, this is completely normal.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

It's completely normal.

When you seat a bullet, the top will widen out and you'll have a distinctive skinny 'waist' on the round. Again, this is completely normal.

Thanks everyone here for the input! I found a dillon case gauge today and they check out fine, as well as EC points out a typical occurrence with progressive dies

 

[01SVTvert]

I also see this with no issue, 9mm is tapered and seems to be more so before you put a bullet in.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

I got the the die issue ( or non issue ) resolved... But I think there is something wrong with my press! It's always beeping really loud! Seems like every 10 -15 minutes its beeping like crazy, and there's a full bucket of 9mm???

I love the thing!

 

[Eric]

I ran into the same problem. You picked up casings at the range someone was shooting "hot" loads out of a glock. I check every 9mm reload in a barrel before I put them away in the ammo can.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

UPDATE:

Ok, so there is some sort of issue... Out of the last batch of 200 I shot this afternoon I had 3 rounds fail the dillon case gauge ( and one of them badly fail the glock chamber gauge! ). Had a pretty bad lock up of the glock 34 with a reload the was WAY to wide at the base...

Now, a LOT of my brass is range pickups and some of it it range pickups from after a USPSA match. Is this just a case a garbage brass or do I have a real issue?

 

[*chris*]

Buy a Lee Factory Crimp Die and see if that helps. I had some under-crimped 45ACP rounds that would not chamber in a new 625 revolver. The LEE FCD fixed all the rounds so they chambered perfectly. If they fix your rounds, there is something wrong with the dies. It is also possible that your dies are not machined right.

I have read multiple places that the Dillon dies have this problem, so you are not alone. I have not had a chance to buy a set of Dillon dies yet so I can check it out for myself.

Chris

 

[SJan]

Now, a LOT of my brass is range pickups and some of it it range pickups from after a USPSA match. Is this just a case a garbage brass or do I have a real issue?

There are some uspsa guys shooting 9mm major powerfactor ammo in open guns. That brass is stressed FARmore than any once fired factory load. But it is still re-loadable. The cases will crack, and the primer pockets will loosen, sometimes to the point where a new primer falls out!

The rounds that failed the case gauge, did you shoot them? and is that the round that caused your glock to 'lock up' ?

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

No, The rounds that failed the case gauge would no chamber... By a long shot! I didn't check every round with the gauge and one round was sent (attempted) through the pistol. Locked it up pretty good.

I'm more than a bit frustrated... My new press is producing out of spec rounds( or I am ), had a new front sight put on the glock 34 and its the wrong height, and I'm all over the place with the transition from the m&p 9 to the glock 34

 

[SJan]

It may be a simple die adjustment. I would suggest you start over setting up the seating and crimp dies. When you think you have the crimp die set, measure the diameter of the completed round top to bottom, check it in the case gauge. Then turn the die in another 1/2 turn and measure again. Compare to the cartridge dimensions in your reloading manual.


Oh and the glock grip angle sucks

 

[Gammon]

No, The rounds that failed the case gauge would no chamber... By a long shot! I didn't check every round with the gauge and one round was sent (attempted) through the pistol. Locked it up pretty good.

I'm more than a bit frustrated... My new press is producing out of spec rounds( or I am ), had a new front sight put on the glock 34 and its the wrong height, and I'm all over the place with the transition from the m&p 9 to the glock 34

If the brass has been abused it may not be able to be resized sufficiently to chamber. This is not your fault, nor the fault of your machine. Some brass is too far gone to be reused.

 

[scooter]

I ran into an issue once where my decamping die loosened up on me and I had a bunch of no go's. I didn't realize that it wasn't sizing all the way down. Just throwing things out there

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

Buy a Lee Factory Crimp Die and see if that helps. I had some under-crimped 45ACP rounds that would not chamber in a new 625 revolver. The LEE FCD fixed all the rounds so they chambered perfectly. If they fix your rounds, there is something wrong with the dies. It is also possible that your dies are not machined right.

I have read multiple places that the Dillon dies have this problem, so you are not alone. I have not had a chance to buy a set of Dillon dies yet so I can check it out for myself.

Chris

Chris, it appears you hit the nail on the head... ( thank you )

See pics below....

My dillon 550b and dillon 9mm die set was producing 5-10 rounds per hundred that would fail the dillon case gauge and chamber test. A removed and reset all of my dies 4 different times, verified all settings with a caliper, contacted dillon and verified their recommended crimp, even found some 9mm factory ammo and shot it to verify I was using quality once fired brass.... Still 5-10 rounds per hundred failed.

I ordered the lee Factory Crimp Die and installed it in the press 10 minuted ago. I took the pile of failed 9mm reloaded ammo I had, verified it still failed in both chamber and gauge and the ran it through the Lee crimp die.... Every single one now passes both chamber, gauge and digital caliper measurement test.

NO, I am NOT happy my almost $70 dies from dillon could not produce loaded ammo reliability

With Dillon crimp die

With Lee Factory Crimp die

 

[Romokid]

See Lee Dies are the Worlds best!






Sorry I couldn't resist. I too have the Lee FCD in .40 and 9mm and that is in the 5th place on my progressive press. Since getting the Lee FCD I've never had a round that didn't pass the Dillon case gauge. I do believe as was mentioned earlier that Dillon dies do not size as far down on the brass as other brands.

For the record I own Lee, RCBS & Dillon dies. Over the years I've found that there are just certain dies from certain manufacturers that I like better than others.

 

[Dadstoys]

Chris, it appears you hit the nail on the head... ( thank you )

See pics below....

My dillon 550b and dillon 9mm die set was producing 5-10 rounds per hundred that would fail the dillon case gauge and chamber test. A removed and reset all of my dies 4 different times, verified all settings with a caliper, contacted dillon and verified their recommended crimp, even found some 9mm factory ammo and shot it to verify I was using quality once fired brass.... Still 5-10 rounds per hundred failed.

I ordered the lee Factory Crimp Die and installed it in the press 10 minuted ago. I took the pile of failed 9mm reloaded ammo I had, verified it still failed in both chamber and gauge and the ran it through the Lee crimp die.... Every single one now passes both chamber, gauge and digital caliper measurement test.

NO, I am NOT happy my almost $70 dies from dillon could not produce loaded ammo reliability

With Dillon crimp die

With Lee Factory Crimp die

What did Dillion have to say?
Curious because I am getting ready to order both 9mm and .45 dies soon.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

What did Dillion have to say?
Curious because I am getting ready to order both 9mm and .45 dies soon.

I have yet to speak with Dillon, but I will let you know the outcome...

Additionally I produced 300 rounds through the press and then verified each and every one with the dillon gauge Not 1 failed. ( with the Lee FCD ). I have not successfully done that previously using the complete dillon die set

I have check, recheck, readjusted ect ect ect... This CANNOT be a coincidence that the dillon crimp die was replaced and the issue goes away

I wouldn't trade my 550b for anything and I'm extremely pleased with the press, but I don't know that I would fork over the $65+ for dillon dies at the moment

 

[Supermoto]

It might be the sizing die and not the crimp die that is out of spec.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

It might be the sizing die and not the crimp die that is out of spec.

Thank you, and excellent point I will be asking dillon about this tomorrow.

 

[Supermoto]

Sometimes on a blown out case, it will scrape the brass down instead of squishing it. Are you using lube?

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

Sometimes on a blown out case, it will scrape the brass down instead of squishing it. Are you using lube?

Hornady one shot

 

[Gammon]

I gave up on the Lee FCD a long time ago. I found that it was reducing the diameter of my loaded rounds to the point that the bullets were also reduced in diameter. Accuracy suffered. Precision, the MFR of the coated bullets I was using, strongly advises against the use of the FCD. As near as I can tell, the FCD is more of a cosmetic application, making the round look nice and smooth.

I am loading a lot of 9mm using Dillon dies in my 1050 with no problems except brass accumulation at the base of well used cases. This problem is difficult to deal with as most dies, including the Lee FCD, do not resize the lowest portion of the case. Without a specially modified die to remove this "belt" at the base of the case, such brass is useless.

PS Closely examining photo #1 of the bad round prior to its redemption at the hands of the Lee FCD, I see too much flare at the case mouth, i.e. not enough taper crimp. Dialing in a little more crimp with the Dillon die might have solved the problem.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Say I showed up at your house with a special case gage that was a slightly smaller version of yours. Then I took one of your bad rounds, forced it into my gage with a vise, popped it out with a dowel, handed it to you, and said, "Try it now".

If it fit your gage would you call it a success and shoot it anyway, or would you think, "No way! You just took a bad round and made it fit my gage without fixing it!"

It might sound preposterous, but it's exactly what you've been doing.

 

[Steve Marshall]

There is an easy test for this. Size your brass. See if it fits your gage. If it does, then any problem would be caused after that. As in the crimping operation. You can overcrimp. Did you set your crimping operation to the longest or shortest case? You didn't realize that 9MM brass varies in length? Shame on you. Too many of us blame our equipment. Because I once reloaded in a Holiday Inn doesn't me smarter or more experienced than the die manufacturers.

 

[Ink]

I use dillon's 9mm carbide dies with about 1500 rounds through it and I have had zero issues. I use a case gauge on each case after sizing and trimming and again on each completed round.

I have a stupid question..... have you checked your gauge for random pieces of debris? Once in a while I get a few cases that don't go into the gauge and the culprit is a spec of dirt......