80% lower AR-15 unserialized

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Recently, I've been looking into the best "bang-for-your-buck" rifles. This happened to really catch my eye as a great alternative to paying for a rifle out of the box, or building one with a commercial AR lower. Plus it would be an excellent project for any gun enthusiast.

http://www.shadowopsweaponry.com/products/184-80-anodized-ar-15-m4-black-lower.aspx

Does anyone know of any legal issues that may be present in the Commonwealth, asides from creating a fully automatic, SBR, or suppressed rifle? I want to make it just a plane jane semi auto 16 inch barrel fully legal in all aspect of a rifle(according to current MA Law) as if I were to buy one from the store. Any advice or personal experience would be greatly appreciated
 
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at the cost these 80% lowers not at all cheaper that your regular 100% stripped lower.
i understand if you wanna go with 80% just for the heck of experience, but only if you have proper equipment and know-how.
otherwise there are plenty of lowers out there for about $100

if i remember correctly, serial is required only if you are planning on selling it. as long as you keep it in your safe there is no need for s/n, at least from fed point of view
not sure with regards to MA laws. some one will pitch in on that shortly.
 
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M

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Its just a block of metal at this stage.

It looks like a stripped lower but you still need to machine it to get it to that point.
There is no slot for a trigger and no hole for the safety. You have to machine those areas before you can install any parts.
This is not dremel machining, this is serious machine tool level work.

Look at the pics. Just a block of metal with a magwell and screwhole for the stock.

On a stripped lower everything is machined and you can install parts with a few simple hand tools.

Get a stripped lower and you will be shooting in an hour.
 
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You can do it with a drill press, but it is better to use a milling machine. You won't be saving any money, but it would be an interesting project and MA won't know you have one ;-)
I thought about doing it a while ago, but decided not to do it until at least I get a milling machine.
Here are some good pictures showing what you need to do.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/484783_.html
 

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MA still requires an FA-10 filed when the gun is complete and "able to fire a projectile"!

So it still will be registered with the state, unless you break the law and are willing to risk prosecution. No legal way around it.
 
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MA still requires an FA-10 filed when the gun is complete and "able to fire a projectile"!

So it still will be registered with the state, unless you break the law and are willing to risk prosecution. No legal way around it.
what would you enter in serial number line on fa-10 when you go registering it. does efa-10 allows to proceed with the form if there is no serial number?
 

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None or N/A or you create one when mfg it (not required but if you ever sell it years down the road I do believe you have to serialize it per BATFE rules - check, this isn't my area of expertise).
 

Knob Creek

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I believe according to the ATF you can build them legally for "yourself" but you can never sell it or give it away. If you no longer want it you must by law destroy that frame.
 
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Kinda been debating doing one as a project. I do have access and ability to use a CNC mill though.

Still at that price, I could pick up a 100% lower and be done. Still though, that's actually one of the nicer 80% lowers I've seen. Some have even less done requiring a bit more work.


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk
 
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Does anyone know of any legal issues that may be present in the Commonwealth...

As Len and dnepro-mike stated, pursuant to Federal law, no markings of any kind are required unless and until ownership is transferred, and pursuant to State law, a FA-10 is required to be submitted upon completion ("capable of discharging a shot or bullet").



...you can never sell it or give it away. If you no longer want it you must by law destroy that frame.

Not true.

It cannot be manufactured with the intent of sale or distribution, but it can transferred in the future, providing that prior to any such transfer it must be marked in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92
 

Knob Creek

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As Len and dnepro-mike stated, pursuant to Federal law, no markings of any kind are required unless and until ownership is transferred, and pursuant to State law, a FA-10 is required to be submitted upon completion ("capable of discharging a shot or bullet").





Not true.

It cannot be manufactured with the intent of sale or distribution, but it can transferred in the future, providing that prior to any such transfer it must be marked in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92

ATF FAQ:

" Q: Is it legal to assemble a firearm from commercially available parts kits that can be purchased via internet or shotgun news?

For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution.


Would not attempting to transfer it later be considered distribution?
 
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ATF FAQ:

" Q: Is it legal to assemble a firearm from commercially available parts kits that can be purchased via internet or shotgun news?

For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution.


Would not attempting to transfer it later be considered distribution?

How do you buy the ammo for it in Mass without a LTC or FID :(
 
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ATF FAQ:

" Q: Is it legal to assemble a firearm from commercially available parts kits that can be purchased via internet or shotgun news?

For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution.


Would not attempting to transfer it later be considered distribution?

See the last paragraph of that same FAQ you posted...

Individuals manufacturing sporting-type firearms for their own use need not hold Federal Firearms Licenses (FFLs). However, we suggest that the manufacturer at least identify the firearm with a serial number as a safeguard in the event that the firearm is lost or stolen. Also, the firearm should be identified as required in 27 CFR 478.92 if it is sold or otherwise lawfully transferred in the future.
 
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As Len and dnepro-mike stated, pursuant to Federal law, no markings of any kind are required unless and until ownership is transferred, and pursuant to State law, a FA-10 is required to be submitted upon completion ("capable of discharging a shot or bullet").





Not true.

It cannot be manufactured with the intent of sale or distribution, but it can transferred in the future, providing that prior to any such transfer it must be marked in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92

Correct on all counts
 
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There are only 2 reasons to do this.

1) to unlawfully own a rifle that the State of MA doesn't know about.

2) to experience the satisfaction of doing the work yourself.

Even number 1 is a stretch. If you want to break the law and posses a rifle in MA that the state doesn't know about, all you have to do is go to CT, pick up a bargain news and buy a gun from a non-licensee. Long gun transfers between non-licensees are not regulated in CT.

I believe the same is true of NH for both handguns and long guns.

So really, the only good reason for doing this is for the learning and satisfaction of doing the work yourself.

I also think it would make a great paperweight at work.

Don
 
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Mfr, Mfr date, and serial

But it needs to be to depth per ATF spec. If you're getting it done best go to a shop that does NFA engraving so they can do it right for you.

I've brought my stripped lowers to one of those places in the mall that sells and engraves plates and vases. I bring the spec and they engraved to that spec. The lower never leaves my sight. Thats what I like about it. I'm also in and out in 20 minutes.

Don
 

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Recently, I've been looking into the best "bang-for-your-buck" rifles. This happened to really catch my eye as a great alternative to paying for a rifle out of the box, or building one with a commercial AR lower. Plus it would be an excellent project for any gun enthusiast.

http://www.shadowopsweaponry.com/products/184-80-anodized-ar-15-m4-black-lower.aspx

Does anyone know of any legal issues that may be present in the Commonwealth, asides from creating a fully automatic, SBR, or suppressed rifle? I want to make it just a plane jane semi auto 16 inch barrel fully legal in all aspect of a rifle(according to current MA Law) as if I were to buy one from the store. Any advice or personal experience would be greatly appreciated

Legal issues have been highlighted. Now, for the bang for your buck portion:
Complete Lower for $110 - the catch, its all polymer.

http://www.lw15.com/index.php

Keep the internals, beat 'em up. They'll do fine for the first 5k-10k rounds, I'd think. They've already tested some to almost 2k with only normal wear signs.
 
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I've often wondered why there are not polymer 80% lowers out there? Could be cheap enough that folks would buy a few to take in account potential screw-ups..

Legal issues have been highlighted. Now, for the bang for your buck portion:
Complete Lower for $110 - the catch, its all polymer.

http://www.lw15.com/index.php

Keep the internals, beat 'em up. They'll do fine for the first 5k-10k rounds, I'd think. They've already tested some to almost 2k with only normal wear signs.
 

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There are only 2 reasons to do this.

1) to unlawfully own a rifle that the State of MA doesn't know about.

2) to experience the satisfaction of doing the work yourself.

Don

There is a third: To preserve the ability to manufacture an off the books AR at a future date in time, but legally avoiding the need to register your ability to do so by not completing any work on the 80% lower.

BUT.... unless you pay cash, you are more likely to come to the attention of the authorities that if you simply buy some completed AR lowers and fill out the 4473s. It is not unheard of the gov to get sales/shipping records of people who thought they were buying unregulated, off the books parts. Buyers of the Maadi Griffin 50BMG "non-gun" kit, or the Atkins Accellerator (the original one with spring and the "not an NFA weapon" ATF letter) can explain it to you if you need clarification on the concept.
 

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I've often wondered why there are not polymer 80% lowers out there? Could be cheap enough that folks would buy a few to take in account potential screw-ups..

Well, because the polymer version is so cheap that doing an 80% version is not really "beneficial" from a cost/benefit standpoint.

Please correct me if I am wrong - And truly, from how I am reading the NFA paperwork, you're still required to submit ATF Form 1 (and $200) prior to starting a build.
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-6.pdf
 
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Only if making a Title II firearm (NFA).

Title I firearms (non-NFA) do not require any Federal paperwork.
That.
Plus I know a lot of folks that would like to make a do-it-yourself AR but do not have the skills of a Boris of Flintoid so would rather work with cheap and easier to work on polymer than expensive aluminium.
 
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As an offshoot to this...

Doesn't FOPA forbid the filing of an FA10 for a "Completion" or "Registration" of a firearm? I know that MA gets around the requirement when buying a full AR (or even a lower) by saying that it is (correctly) being "transferred" from the FFL to you, but in the case of finishing an 80% lower, from whom is it being transferred from?

From wiki...
"No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. "
 
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Doesn't FOPA forbid the filing of an FA10 for a "Completion" or "Registration" of a firearm? I know that MA gets around the requirement when buying a full AR (or even a lower) by saying that it is (correctly) being "transferred" from the FFL to you, but in the case of finishing an 80% lower, from whom is it being transferred from?

From wiki...

"No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. "

FA-10 reporting is exempt due to being codified prior to the enactment of FOPA.
 
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