80% help

[skiro98]

Just throwing this out there...
Being a relatively noob to building ARs (I’ve only built 1) and having no real machining experience - if I were to buy an 80% is there anyone out there in the central MA area that could do the machining for me?

 

[Boris]

only an FFL with mfg lic can legally manufacture a rifle and sell it to you. We have no loopholes C'aunt Mora keeps talking about.

 

[bfm]

Who ever does the machining is the manufacturer and unless you are a licensed manufacturer, you cannot sell or transfer a firearm.

If you build an 80%, it is yours. You cannot transfer it.

 

[skiro98]

So what if I bought an 80% and I knew someone that had some experience and a good drill press in his basement? Wouldn’t he be able to machine for me?
Of course I’d throw him a few bucks and maybe some beer. Unfortunately I don’t know anybody like that

 

[LuvToGoFast]

No, you have to do the work yourself No exceptions

 

[bfm]

So what if I bought an 80% and I knew someone that had some experience and a good drill press in his basement? Wouldn’t he be able to machine for me?
Of course I’d throw him a few bucks and maybe some beer. Unfortunately I don’t know anybody like that

Well, it depends on how much you both want to be felons.

 

[bdb]

He can show you but legally you have to do the actual work.

 

[skiro98]

Well, it depends on how much you both want to be felons.

But it’s ok for me to Buy an 80% and do it myself? Sorry like I said I’m new to this

 

[skiro98]

He can show you but legally you have to do the actual work.

Wow - I need to move to NH
Thanks for all the info

 

[allen-1]

So what if I bought an 80% and I knew someone that had some experience and a good drill press in his basement? Wouldn’t he be able to machine for me?
Of course I’d throw him a few bucks and maybe some beer. Unfortunately I don’t know anybody like that

NO.

That's a violation of federal law, regardless of how Massachusetts looks at it.

YOU can complete an 80% lower for YOUR own personal use.
That's legal under FEDERAL law, (and ATF regulations).
That may or may not be legal under the current administration in Massachusetts. I don't live in MA, I'm not 100% up to speed on the legalities of Maura's FAQs.

If your "friend" completes it for you - he is a MANUFACTURER - and must have appropriate licensing/paperwork.
That's FEDERAL law.

You asking someone else to complete a lower for you is either naivete or entrapment.
Depending upon whether you're ignorant of the law or a law enforcement agent.

 

[skiro98]

NO.

That's a violation of federal law, regardless of how Massachusetts looks at it.

YOU can complete an 80% lower for YOUR own personal use.
That's legal under FEDERAL law, (and ATF regulations).
That may or may not be legal under the current administration in Massachusetts. I don't live in MA, I'm not 100% up to speed on the legalities of Maura's FAQs.

If your "friend" completes it for you - he is a MANUFACTURER - and must have appropriate licensing/paperwork.
That's FEDERAL law.

You asking someone else to complete a lower for you is either naivete or entrapment.
Depending upon whether you're ignorant of the law or a law enforcement agent.

Ok. Thanks for the info. Guess I won’t look into that any further

 

[xtry51]

Moving to NH won't change the law. Federal law says the person who makes the firearm is a manufacturer. You can manufacture guns for yourself, but you cannot sell them or transfer them to other people without an FFL.

Just buy a jig with the bits included and do it yourself. All you are doing is drilling holes. Not rocket science.

Here's a print for an AR15 lower, buy a cheap caliper:
AR15 PDFs - Exploded views and machine drawings

 

[skiro98]

Moving to NH won't change the law. Federal law says the person who makes the firearm is a manufacturer. You can manufacture guns for yourself, but you cannot sell them or transfer them to other people without an FFL.

Just buy a jig with the bits included and do it yourself. All you are doing is drilling holes. Not rocket science.

Here's a print for an AR15 lower, buy a cheap caliper:
AR15 PDFs - Exploded views and machine drawings

I meant move there so it’s still legal to buy an ar

 

[xtry51]

PS - May want to look up this guy called Randy Weaver and find out what happens when you draw ATF attention to yourself for breaking federal gun laws.

 

[xtry51]

I meant move there so it’s still legal to buy an ar

Well that is a good idea and a lot easier than going to federal prison.

 

[skiro98]

PS - May want to look up this guy called Randy Weaver and find out what happens when you draw ATF attention to yourself for breaking federal gun laws.

Isn’t this the point of a forum? To ask questions on things I don’t know. Now I know and I won’t be doing it

 

[bdb]

I meant move there so it’s still legal to buy an ar

Buy a pre-Healy Ban AR in the classifieds face to face. If you have an even lower risk threshold buy a true pre-ban (pre '94) from another MA resident or even a local gun store. 4 seasons has a few of them right now. Or even buy a lower from someone who FA10'd it prior to 7/20 and build it up yourself. You have options, none of them are as cheap as being a NH resident and buying an AR but you can get one.

 

[akma]

Probably one of the router based milling jigs would be your best bet. However you're still in Mass so your screwed.

 

[Fixxah]

Maura Healey Tool Co. will gladly help you out.

 

[Fixxah]

PS - May want to look up this guy called Randy Weaver and find out what happens when you draw ATF attention to yourself for breaking federal gun laws.

Or David Koresh.

 

[namedpipes]

... If you build an 80%, it is yours. You cannot transfer it.

You CAN sell a firearm you manufactured for your own personal use so long as that was not your intent. Do that more than once or twice and you've shown a pattern = intent = bubba's new girlfriend

I meant move there so it’s still legal to buy an ar

It's legal to buy an AR in Mass, too. It's just that nobody wants to be the test case.

 

[Golddiggie]

You CAN sell a firearm you manufactured for your own personal use so long as that was not your intent. Do that more than once or twice and you've shown a pattern = intent = bubba's new girlfriend

IIRC, or last I read on this, you can do ONE a year LEGALLY. You have to give it a serial number and register it with ATF though.

Personally, I won't be selling any of the 80% lowers I finished, or will finish in the future.

 

[allen-1]

IIRC, or last I read on this, you can do ONE a year LEGALLY. You have to give it a serial number and register it with ATF though.

Personally, I won't be selling any of the 80% lowers I finished, or will finish in the future.

I've heard that "one gun a year" before.
But everything I've read makes it seem like a very grey area to me.

And that's not good enough for me to want to have conversations with the ATF.
Plus - I'm not selling guns these days.

 

[Dennis in MA]

What if I do it, but he has his hands on mine, a la Demi and Patrick in Ghost??


Good luck with the AR build. I don't think I've got the skillz to do that. Maybe if I had a good milling vice for my drill press. ????

 

[namedpipes]

What if I do it, but he has his hands on me, a la Demi and Patrick in Ghost??

I don't judge.

 

[Boris]

What if I do it, but he has his hands on mine, a la Demi and Patrick in Ghost??


Good luck with the AR build. I don't think I've got the skillz to do that. Maybe if I had a good milling vice for my drill press. ????

lol, that's got to be a meme ... "ghost"

 

[Wildweasel]

on the selling a gun you built, it is not limited to 1 a year, they(ATF) suggest you add a serial number and Manf info but do not require it. there is no way to "Register" it with the ATF. The big issue is to not manufacture with the intent to sell.
So if you had built a gun a year or so ago and then sold it you should be ok. serial number can be anything you assign it.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

TLDR; "Hi Maura" and "No"

LOL

 

[Warm_Garand]

(Post removed, as I cannot cite the legal basis against an individual loaning tooling on a non-commercial basis).

 

[allen-1]

Another wrinkle in the quest to avoid five or seven years of manlove in Club Fed is that you cannot "borrow" the tooling, and nobody can "lend" it to you. You have to own it. You can sell the jig/tooling after you are finished, you might even sell it back to the person who sold it to you--but you have to personally own the tools you use. If you were to use the Bridgeport mill at work, or your buddys in his garage, that would be a violation of the ATF rulings on the matter, and whoever loaned you the tooling could get fu*ked over royally.

Can you provide any sort of link/reference to that please? A friend of mine is collecting parts now and we're planning on him completing his 80% on my milling machine. It's been my understanding that so long as he does all of the work, (no nod/wink here - I'm serious), that we were okay with the ATF. We figured that he's mechanically inclined enough that I can teach him the basics on a block of scrap and then supervise him while he spins the dials, and so long as I'm not doing any of the work - that we were good to go.