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AR15 Remove pins in collapsible stock ?

Discussion in 'Massachusetts Laws' started by Harleynut, Mar 13, 2009.

  1. Harleynut

    Harleynut Member

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    I am a New Hampshire resident with a non resident Mass LTC A. I ordered a Rock River AR15 but had it made Mass compliant. I shoot in Mass sometimes and wanted it compliant. I also felt it would be easier to sell that way if I ever wanted to get rid of the gun. It came from the factory with a collapsible stock that has two roll pins installed by them holding it in place.
    I read somewhere that the stock had to be fixed and require a tool to adjust it for it to be legal.
    So my question is would it be legal to remove the roll pins and use screws to lock the stock?
    It would still require a tool (Screwdriver) to change the adjustments.
    This way I could keep it adjustable in NH and fix it when going to Mass to keep them happy.
     
  2. Tim111

    Tim111 Member

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    IANAL but I think that would be fine. The laws are so grey in this state that most police officers can't understand them. To me though fixed=fixed, regardless of how.
     
  3. vellnueve

    vellnueve Member

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    Wrong.

    A mere screw will not suffice for ban compliance.
     
  4. Harleynut

    Harleynut Member

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    What if I were to install allen head bolts and use an allen wrench to remove?

    I remember reading the "cant be adjusted with out a tool" somewhere but haven't been able to find it.

    Just wondering what I would have to be done to make it legal. I am trying to avoid buying a new stock and switching it over every time I cross the state line.
    At this time I am not 100% sure that the stock they use has all the parts inside to make it collapsible anyway. If anyone has done this let me know.
    I have seen bushmasters done like this too with the pins so maybe someone else has worked it out.

    I have had many people say don't worry if your a New Hampshire resident I think they are confusing being able to carry a non mass approved handgun like a Kimber with the special rules they dreamed up with the assalt weapons ban laws.
     
  5. SigFan

    SigFan Member

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    How you do know a screw will not suffice? According to the now-defunct Federal ban "B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a
    detachable magazine and has at least 2 of -
    (i) a folding or telescoping stock;"

    The Massachusetts AWB mirrors the 1994 bill, hence the wording would be the same. If the stock is rendered non-moveable by any means, it is in compliance, is it not? I'm not trying to start a fight here, but I am curious as to where you got your information saying that a screw is not sufficient. Can you site your source? I'm curious for my own information.
     
  6. vellnueve

    vellnueve Member

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    BATFE Technical Branch defined the modes of pinning that would be acceptable under their ban. Since, as you said, the MA AWB pretty much mirrors the Federal ban in most ways, a screw would not be allowed.
     
  7. jdubois

    jdubois NES Member

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    I believe you are thinking of the California ban stipulation that you cannot have the detatchable magazine unless it requires a tool to remove it. I have never seen a clarification that a stock can be telescoping or folding if it takes a tool to do so.

    ATF had said that the stock must be 'permanently' fixed to be legal
    for the federal ban. If MA follows this rule, even most pinned stocks that I've seen could be found to be illegal because they are hardly permanent or even at all difficult to unpin.

    I think you would be treading of very thin ice to have a tool-adjustable stock in MA.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2009
  8. SigFan

    SigFan Member

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    Can you send me the actual link for this? I was just all over the BATF's website and couldn't find any reference to this. Sorry to be a pain in the backside, but I feel that it's important to fully research this :) Thanks!
     
  9. vellnueve

    vellnueve Member

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    It's a moot point for you because you cannot own an AR in Boston.
     
  10. SigFan

    SigFan Member

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    It's a totally valid point because I don't actually live in Boston. I work in Boston, yes, but I live outside the "exclusion zone". Now, how about please finding me that link about pins vs. screws that you saw on the BATF website that I can't seem to locate??
     
  11. vellnueve

    vellnueve Member

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    Do your own legwork. The letter is out there.
     
  12. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator

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    Yeah, but MA law doesn't mirror these "letters" in any way. This really is only a "best guess" that they would adopt the same determinations, but I wouldn't bet on that.

    A screw could be fine. Or you may need to use a double crumpet xiectalub extremely gay buffer tube that only has one hole in it with a blind pin installed in such a way that a blowtorch is required to remove it. Nobody really knows what MA would think because there is zero case law on the issue in this state.


    -Mike
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2010
  13. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator

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    Hey! Hammers, Blowtorches, Dremels and Sawzalls are also tools. [laugh]

    -Mike
     
  14. jdubois

    jdubois NES Member

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    Wait, you're not saying that you own any of those dangerous and anti-American terrorist devices are you? [shocked][shocked][shocked]
     
  15. Harleynut

    Harleynut Member

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    I hope all the do gooders writing up the laws sleep better tonight knowing that my stock is still firmly pinned in one place.(for tonight) This is a great example of them saying follow the rules but refusing to say what the rules are.
     
  16. Gooman24

    Gooman24 NES Member

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    You could ask Rob - He would know. I am surprised Jack doesn't.

    BTW Been lurking here for a while. Couldn't resist this first post. Harleynut should know why.
     
  17. Underwhere

    Underwhere Member

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    My MA compliant Stag AR comes like this:

    1. 1 hole drilled in the buffer tube. No other holes.
    2. A threaded screw where the normal adjustable lever is on the stock
    3. The buffer tube is rifle length

    So as far as adjustability, the only thing that does prevents this is the threaded screw.

    If I unscrewed it, I could slide the stock along the buffer tube...I just don't have any adjustment holes to secure it in a different place.

    I have no roll pins anywhere but have seen them in other stocks on other MA compliant rifles.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2009
  18. Underwhere

    Underwhere Member

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  19. vellnueve

    vellnueve Member

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    And I think you'd find that if there was more than one hole, they'd consider that collapsible...
     
  20. Underwhere

    Underwhere Member

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    I'm still trying to search for that BATF doc that you mentioned so I can figure out exactly what I can do with this. If you have it handy or a link, it'd be appreciated.
     

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