5320.1 manufacture question

[massBRS]

4.a. Name and Location of Original Manufacture of Firearm

If I'm trying to register my own 80% as an SBR. Do I use my own personal name and home address? If I machined it at a buddy's garage, do I use his address? Could I use the address of a machine shop I did the machining? If I made up a fictitious manufacturer (PVR Machine, for example) - could I use that as the manufacturer? What knowledge can you fine folks bestow on me??? Thank you very much for your time.

 

[ACB84]

I would just use your name and your address.

 

[massBRS]

Is there any reason not to use a fictitious manufacturer? I'm trying to avoid issues with law enforcement and fuds I could see coming up with people that aren't savvy to self-made firearms. "Smith & Messon" Boingfield, MA - for instance. I also don't want any trouble with the ATF - it seems a delicate balance

 

[01SVTvert]

Is there any reason not to use a fictitious manufacturer? I'm trying to avoid issues with law enforcement and fuds I could see coming up with people that aren't savvy to self-made firearms. "Smith & Messon" Boingfield, MA - for instance. I also don't want any trouble with the ATF - it seems a delicate balance

.

Perjury on a federal form that goes to the ATF...... Doesn't sound smart. If your are the manufacturer put your name and address


Tons of form 1s have people's names as manufacturers.

If you are willing to lie to the ATF on paper you shouldn't be playing this game IMO.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

4.a. Name and Location of Original Manufacture of Firearm

If I'm trying to register my own 80% as an SBR. Do I use my own personal name and home address? If I machined it at a buddy's garage, do I use his address? Could I use the address of a machine shop I did the machining? If I made up a fictitious manufacturer (PVR Machine, for example) - could I use that as the manufacturer? What knowledge can you fine folks bestow on me??? Thank you very much for your time.

Start with ATF.GOV FAQ section.

I never understood why people constantly try to complicate things.

 

[falcon123]

4.a. Name and Location of Original Manufacture of Firearm

If I'm trying to register my own 80% as an SBR. Do I use my own personal name and home address? If I machined it at a buddy's garage, do I use his address? Could I use the address of a machine shop I did the machining? If I made up a fictitious manufacturer (PVR Machine, for example) - could I use that as the manufacturer? What knowledge can you fine folks bestow on me??? Thank you very much for your time.

I would just use the White House or DOJ address and put the mfg down as Fast and Furious Mfg.

 

[massBRS]

.

Perjury on a federal form that goes to the ATF...... Doesn't sound smart. If your are the manufacturer put your name and address


Tons of form 1s have people's names as manufacturers.

If you are willing to lie to the ATF on paper you shouldn't be playing this game IMO.

I understand the concern with the hypothetical "Smith & Messon" example - that one was overboard and silly because "Boingfield, MA" doesn't exist. Perhaps toned down "(maker's last name) Manufacturing" with maker's legitimate address would be viable? It isn't untrue. It's not unlicensed manufacturing because it would be made not for sale, but personal use. Thoughts on this? My presumption was that "Original Manufacturer" was less important since it is being registered with "Applicant's" pertinent information.

Start with ATF.GOV FAQ section.

I never understood why people constantly try to complicate things.

I've read the FAQ and think this question might not be so frequently asked. I couldn't find my answer. I'm not trying to complicate anything, merely enrich my understanding.

I would just use the White House or DOJ address and put the mfg down as Fast and Furious Mfg.

Solid idea. Thanks for nothing.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

I understand the concern with the hypothetical "Smith & Messon" example - that one was overboard and silly because "Boingfield, MA" doesn't exist. Perhaps toned down "(maker's last name) Manufacturing" with maker's legitimate address would be viable? It isn't untrue. It's not unlicensed manufacturing because it would be made not for sale, but personal use. Thoughts on this? My presumption was that "Original Manufacturer" was less important since it is being registered with "Applicant's" pertinent information.



I've read the FAQ and think this question might not be so frequently asked. I couldn't find my answer. I'm not trying to complicate anything, merely enrich my understanding.



Solid idea. Thanks for nothing.

YOU Are the maker/mfgr, therefore YOUR NAME, CITY AND STATE need to be added to the receiver according to BATFE specifications.

If you are not adding your own serial number to the gun, you use the existing number from the company who made the receiver. If YOU are making the receiver,(finishing it to 100% functional) YOU assign a serial number to it and put it in the appropriate place on the form.

 

[massBRS]

YOU Are the maker/mfgr, therefore YOUR NAME, CITY AND STATE need to be added to the receiver according to BATFE specifications.

If you are not adding your own serial number to the gun, you use the existing number from the company who made the receiver. If YOU are making the receiver,(finishing it to 100% functional) YOU assign a serial number to it and put it in the appropriate place on the form.

If the serial number adding is what the issue is, that makes sense to me. I appreciate the clarification. Thank you very much.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

If the serial number adding is what the issue is, that makes sense to me. I appreciate the clarification. Thank you very much.

K

 

[dgrafton]

Maybe a dumb question, I thought if a person finishes an 80% receiver for personal use it doesn't need a serial number? Does that change when it is made into an sbr?


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[Sinitron]

You are the mfg, you put in your info. Don't put down your buddy shop address, I don't think you would ever want anyone knocking on their door.

Same thing for engraving, you put down your info, not where it was welded together, etc.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

Maybe a dumb question, I thought if a person finishes an 80% receiver for personal use it doesn't need a serial number? Does that change when it is made into an sbr?


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Yes, when it becomes an NFA registered SBR, it requires a serial number and that number must be put on the application and engraved on the receiver according to specs.

 

[milktree]

Maybe a dumb question, I thought if a person finishes an 80% receiver for personal use it doesn't need a serial number? Does that change when it is made into an sbr?

Yes. An SBR has all sorts of other requirements (like a tax stamp and ATF paperwork) one of which is a serial number.

 

[dgrafton]

Thanks guys, already found answer. Forgot I had a Form 1 on hand.

Instruction 2i regarding line 4g (serial number) states: 'If the NFA firearm is being made from parts...a serial number you create is to be entered into item 4g.'

 

[massBRS]

Is there any reason your trust as legal entity can't be "Manufacturer" for the sake of engraving requirements? If that's the case, it'll cut down on the amount of engraving required to have done on your lower. Thanks.

 

[mac1911]

just a thought if you put your buddies info on it and now register it to you.... Your friend would now need to be a licensed manufacture correct?
This can also be a concern with build parties could it not?
Since my dreams of NFA items has been finacially smashed for a long time. I stopped looking into it..

 

[massBRS]

just a thought if you put your buddies info on it and now register it to you.... Your friend would now need to be a licensed manufacture correct?
This can also be a concern with build parties could it not?
Since my dreams of NFA items has been finacially smashed for a long time. I stopped looking into it..

I think Sinitron fielded this. You are the mfg - even at a buddy's shop - if you're the one turning the knobs milling the metal - you, personally, are the manufacturer. The location is irrelevant. Companies that make lowers operate under an agency principal, under the name of the company. I'm wondering if you can use the same agency principal of regular manufacturers through your trust for personal use - or rather use of the trust?

 

[Sinitron]

PVR, it's not just who's turning the knobs and making the receiver, it's who is ultimately registering ownership of the lump of metal when complete. Is the friends shop going to register it as a business for themselves on a form 2? No. The user is just there borrowing resources to finish the item and register on a form 1 as an individual or a trust for themselves.

What is the question and goal here? Are you buying a flat or receiver already serialized by someone? If so you put that model info into 4a (e.g. Nodak Spud NS1) or whoever, and the serial in 4g (e.g. 00000123).

 

[massBRS]

I just don't like having my name on something when I can use the trust information in lieu of it, if possible. Someone at a range or on the internet see's "John Doe, Town MA" looks me up in the phone book, and breaks into my house when I'm on vacation to use my own tools to crack my safe. That's why my trust is out of a PO box. It defeats the purpose to then need both the trust info (as SBR maker) AND my personal info (as original manufacturer), when I'm one of two trustees and the sole grantor - the gov should be able to figure that out, no?

It seems the obvious fix is to use a pre-milled lower, rather than an 80% - and use the manufacture's info. In my particular instance, I have a friend producing 80%s with a start up (NO FFL or whatever other licenses he needs yet), and I want to build something interesting with it for advertising (hence my concern with internet pictures) on his end. That's why I initially asked about "fictitious" companies. At this point my only concern is proper filing with the ATF, without using my own info as "manufacturer" for reasons stated above.

I think that was probably more detail than necessary, but here's the core:
Must a person completing an 80% put both their personal information as manufacturer AND their trust info as maker of SBR, or can they simply use their trust info for engraving on the lower to fulfill both needs?

 

[browncoat]

I just don't like having my name on something when I can use the trust information in lieu of it, if possible. Someone at a range or on the internet see's "John Doe, Town MA" looks me up in the phone book, and breaks into my house when I'm on vacation to use my own tools to crack my safe. That's why my trust is out of a PO box. It defeats the purpose to then need both the trust info (as SBR maker) AND my personal info (as original manufacturer), when I'm one of two trustees and the sole grantor - the gov should be able to figure that out, no?

It seems the obvious fix is to use a pre-milled lower, rather than an 80% - and use the manufacture's info. In my particular instance, I have a friend producing 80%s with a start up (NO FFL or whatever other licenses he needs yet), and I want to build something interesting with it for advertising (hence my concern with internet pictures) on his end. That's why I initially asked about "fictitious" companies. At this point my only concern is proper filing with the ATF, without using my own info as "manufacturer" for reasons stated above.

I think that was probably more detail than necessary, but here's the core:
Must a person completing an 80% put both their personal information as manufacturer AND their trust info as maker of SBR, or can they simply use their trust info for engraving on the lower to fulfill both needs?

I think the problem is that Federal Law only allows unlicensed manufacture of firearms by individuals for their own use, hence the trust can't be the manufacturing entity. If only we could get rid of the NFA and the GCA and avoid all attendent hassles.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, couldn't you just cover your information on the firearm with say, electrical tape, to avoid having it read by whomever at the range?

 

[atilla]

manufacture the %80 into a regular rifle as an individual.

then form 1 it and make it a SBR.

 

[massBRS]

manufacture the %80 into a regular rifle as an individual.

then form 1 it and make it a SBR.

I see what you did there.

 

[securityboy]

I just don't like having my name on something when I can use the trust information in lieu of it, if possible. Someone at a range or on the internet see's "John Doe, Town MA" looks me up in the phone book, and breaks into my house when I'm on vacation to use my own tools to crack my safe. That's why my trust is out of a PO box...

You are worried about a lot of nonsense... You are building what ammounts to a disposable parts gun (AR SBR on a homebuild reciever, when you don't want it anymore you will end up parting it out or giving it away because virtually no one will want to pay the $200 transfer to buy it from you) but regardless:

#1 So thief at the range is going to see your gun, write down all the info on it, internet stalk you, then break into your house to steal that gun. Rather than just grabbing the gun off the bench at the range an making a run for it???

#2 If you rather have your trust's info be used submit your form 1 that way, if it gets approved great you are all set, if not they will kick the form back (I honestly doubt they will) and you will have to resubmit with "both" names...

This isn't rocket science...

 

[massBRS]

#1 So thief at the range is going to see your gun, write down all the info on it, internet stalk you, then break into your house to steal that gun. Rather than just grabbing the gun off the bench at the range an making a run for it???

#2 If you rather have your trust's info be used submit your form 1 that way, if it gets approved great you are all set, if not they will kick the form back (I honestly doubt they will) and you will have to resubmit with "both" names...

This isn't rocket science...

#1 yes.

#2 That's actually perfectly reasonable and sound advice - I think I'll give this a shot. Thanks!

 

[Sinitron]

Do you have an NFA trust? Form one. It has several great advantages that you may find beneficial.

Do what Atilla outlined above, or just Buy a quality lower. If you do the above you'll need to mark it with something.

It seems more anonymous to buy a commercial lower (Isn't there a really small price difference between an 80% + work vs. commercial stripped lower?) Fill out a form 1 - Entity is ABC Trust, Wherever, MA. You sign as as trustee with whatever address or PO box you have on file. Seems like a done deal.

 

[dgrafton]

Do you have an NFA trust? Form one. It has several great advantages that you may find beneficial.

Do what Atilla outlined above, or just Buy a quality lower. If you do the above you'll need to mark it with something.

It seems more anonymous to buy a commercial lower (Isn't there a really small price difference between an 80% + work vs. commercial stripped lower?) Fill out a form 1 - Entity is ABC Trust, Wherever, MA. You sign as as trustee with whatever address or PO box you have on file. Seems like a done deal.

By sbr'ing an 80%, you lose the one advantage of the gov not knowing about it until/unless you fa-10 it (yes, comparing state vs fed, but same difference) For an sbr that has to get logged with the feds, I would just get a decent finished lower or even a blem.