2nd British serviceman admits they were at fault. Are you friggin kidding me?

Rockrivr1

Rockrivr1

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This is pissing me off to no end. It's obvious these 15 British service people are being coerced, probably even tortured to start admitting to this crap.

WHY ARE WE NOT BOMBING IRAN INTO THE STONE AGE!!!!!! Sure, we let the Brits lead the charge. But everyone knows whos going to bring the big hammer in when it's needed. Before any bleeding hearts get going, I'm not talking about invading and being a police force like in Iraq. I'm talking about going WWII on thier A$$.

Also

How does a Naval Officer in command of a destroyer let his personnel get taken hostage without putting up a fight? How the hell did that happen? Warships don't just show up all of a sudden. Iranian helicopters and speedboats just don't show up all of a sudden either. This captain was either asleep at the wheel or was under orders to let them take his crew. I know this is arm chairing it, but no way no how would I let people under my command be taken like that without putting up some kind of fight.

DAMN, this is getting under my skin this morning.
 
They are being told what to say, there is no doubt. I don't understand why there are not tomahawks flying down the streets yet...
 
derek said:
They are being told what to say, there is no doubt. I don't understand why there are not tomahawks flying down the streets yet...
Click to expand...

If those were Israeli sailors that would have happened shortly after the abductions and they'd be conducting mop-up operations by now.
 
Same thing happened in VN. They couldn't usually break a guy if they threatened him but all they have to do is say that if you don't 'confess', we'll kill your buddy. At that point, a GI will say any lie they want him too.

Remember this is not for the West, it's to show to their minions and idiot populace that the evil guys (us) who got captured by the good guys (them) are liars and invaders. The pigs can riot in the streets hollering 'Allah Akbar" even more.
 
Rockrivr1 said:
How does a Naval Officer in command of a destroyer let his personnel get taken hostage without putting up a fight? How the hell did that happen? Warships don't just show up all of a sudden. Iranian helicopters and speedboats just don't show up all of a sudden either. This captain was either asleep at the wheel or was under orders to let them take his crew. I know this is arm chairing it, but no way no how would I let people under my command be taken like that without putting up some kind of fight.

DAMN, this is getting under my skin this morning.
Click to expand...

It's probably because of shitty ROE. IMO them having a skirmish with
iran would have been better than this crap we're seeing now. Getting
captured by those terrorists is the worst thing that could happen.

-Mike
 
derek said:
You are 100% right. Iran would probably be glowing...
Click to expand...

I dunno about glowing but I would place a fair wager that if the same
thing happened to Israel that Mossad and friends would be planning a
mission to liberate them. Regardless, the transgressions by the iranians
would not be tolerated. We invited this shit upon ourselves for not
issuing payback after the whole embassy thing. They know they can get
away with playing games with us without repercussions so they continue
to do so, years later.

-Mike
 
Gentlemen

Do any of you remember the Pueblo and Admiral Bucher?
It is easy for us to sit here and judge. The war or rather the Battlefronts in Afghanistan and Iraq are as popular as with the pople as VD. Now if the Capt tried to put up any resistance, how woul dhe know what kind of backing or rather support he was going to get? Jesus we have the idiots here in this country Yelling for a WITHDRAWAL and you think he woul dhave won a popularity contest if he had fired a single shot? That Capt was probably as confused as to what to do as anyone could be.
 
Sorry Wingwiper, I'm not buying it. While leaving behind a fellow soldier has happened in the past, I just don't see it happening in today's world. If this had been an American captain of an American Destroyer who had let this happen, I'd bet you'd see that Captain being bashed all over the news. I don't get BBC or other British channels, but I can't imagine this is sitting very well with British citizens.

The Cornwall had to be very close to the cargo ship in order to let the rubber boats off. The captain had to back off in order for his people to be surrounded and captured like that. He had to see those ships coming to him on radar at the very least. His lookouts should of seen it coming long before they got close. According to AP reports and released video, the Iranians shot over the heads of these 15 people. How did that captain know it was over thier heads. It could of been right at his crewmembers and he did nothing!

Popularity contest my ass. You protect your own and deal with the consequences later.
 
Referring to my previous post, I 'd like to add:

These guys are probably singing the Iranian line, because the BG's have threatened the woman sailor...with who knows what.

I think they'd cave even quicker when put under that pressure.

One more good reason not to have women in the front line.
 
These guys are probably singing the Iranian line, because the BG's have threatened the woman sailor...with who knows what.
Click to expand...

Absolutely!! I'm sure that's why she hasn't been released yet.

Did any of you read the letter "she wrote" to her parents? Completely dictated by the Iranian misinformation wonks. It was laughable.

if the same
thing happened to Israel that Mossad and friends would be planning a
mission to liberate them
Click to expand...

I'd guess that we know exactly where they are, and that the SAS, and some of our Delta and DEVGRU guys have plans.

Someone mentioned the rules of engagement leading to the incident. I'm sure that's true, but these folks were fairly lightly armed, and any reaction would have gotten them smoked. My understanding is that the larger British ship was far enough away that by the time the incident went down, they couldn't do squat about it. The ROE are in place to avoid a larger international incident.

While many of us on this forum want to see Iran glassified, that may not be the best solution. This way, Iran looks like the bad guy in international circles, and the U.S. and the Brits look like the patient, diplomatic ones.

I don't think anyone really believes that the British sailors were in Iranian waters, or that this is anything more than posturing on the Iranians part. Iran has given at least 3 different sets of coordinates for where they were (one of which was inside Iraqi waters).

Iran has tweeked our noses now, they'll most likely free the hostage sailors soon. If not, I'm sure other actions will ensue.
 
Last edited:
Popularity contest my ass. You protect your own and deal with the consequences later.
Click to expand...

I am afraid you do not. This is not a Declared battlefield we are referring to and this is NOT in the line of Battle. This isan arguement over International versus Private waters and during Military EXCERCISES. Big Difference. No Captain is going to risk the chance of a World War. That is left up to his Commanders and politicans. What we all do not know is what Radio calls were made and what his instuctions were. We are assuming he turned his back on his men and I don't beleive that.
Admiral Bucher lost his whole ship and him and his men were held prisoner for a long period of time. That was in the 70s. If UK was at War with Iran, it would have been a whole diffeent story I am sure. This has nothing to do with Bravery it has to do with making a decision that could engage a whole country into a war. I have no doubt the Captain had radio cotnact with his Superiors.
 
Don't get me wrong, Pilgrim. I think we should have gone in and snatched them on their first night in captivity. I just see this as a smarter way to play THIS incident at THIS time.
 
Wingwiper said:
I am afraid you do not. This is not a Declared battlefield we are referring to and this is NOT in the line of Battle. This isan arguement over International versus Private waters and during Military EXCERCISES. Big Difference. No Captain is going to risk the chance of a World War. That is left up to his Commanders and politicans. What we all do not know is what Radio calls were made and what his instuctions were. We are assuming he turned his back on his men and I don't beleive that.
Admiral Bucher lost his whole ship and him and his men were held prisoner for a long period of time. That was in the 70s. If UK was at War with Iran, it would have been a whole diffeent story I am sure. This has nothing to do with Bravery it has to do with making a decision that could engage a whole country into a war. I have no doubt the Captain had radio cotnact with his Superiors.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's just me and my Monday morning quarterbacking, but I honestly believe that if I was in command of the Destroyer, I wouldn't of let them be captured without at least attempting to get my people out of there. No matter what my "superiors" were telling me over the radio. Any yes, I do realize that would of put my other sailors in jeapordy, but being in the Navy myself, I fully believe his crew would of backed him 100%.
 
Rockrivr

I do not question your Honor or your Courage, I question your decision. I was NOT there and do not know the TRUE facts only the Media fed ones. There may have been Honor and Courage in the very decisions made, we do not know that for we are judging by only the outcome.
I do not know what I would have done under the same circumstances. I am a past Marine and a 26 year Army Veteran and still do not know what I would have done. We are only assuming because of our dislike for Iran that the Brits were in the Right and the Iranians acted without provacation. I am sure if any harm comes to those Hostages, then Hell will come down on Iran and maybe just maybe that is what the British want. Are they the Sacrificial Lambs.. Well those words sound so Heartless by the Needs of the Many outweigh the needs of the few. Being Navy you should understand that.
 
A British guy on another shooting website said the Captain of the destroyer wasn't sure if he would have violated the ROE by firing on the Iranian boats. But I'm sure he could have contacted central command within a few seconds. Something doesn't add up.
 
I am at the age where, had I stayed in the Navy, I would probably be commanding a ship similar to HMS Cornwall. I was commissioned in 1988, so by now I would be a Commander.

Regardless of what the rules of engagement said or didn't say, I would not have left a boarding party stray so far from my ship that I could not be on them should they need help.

I also would not have left an enemy vessel approach so closely without a challenge. If a verbal challenge went unanswered, a shot across the bow would have been next. Had that not been heeded, I would have ordered the Tactical Action Officer to go weapons free on the Iranian. If the Iranian vessel was substantially smaller than my ship, ramming would definitely not be out of the question.

Under NO circumstances would I have allowed members of my crew and any USMC detachment aboard to be taken hostages. No G-D way in hell. Yes, such a move would probably have ended my career, but sometimes one has to do the right thing, and to hell with the personal consequences.

I am still at a loss why the captain of HMS Cornwall allowed this to happen......
 
Wingwiper said:
No Captain is going to risk the chance of a World War.
Click to expand...

Starting a world war over this? GMAFB.

Does the name USS Vincennes ring a bell? The CO of that ship mistook an approaching Iranian airliner for a hostile and blew it to kingdom come, killing all men, women, and children aboard.

What did Iran do? The threatened to send death squads against the CO and his family. B...F.....D.

They did nothing after we slaughtered a plane full of innocents. That shows them for the chickenshits that they are.

If the CO of HMS Cornwall had decided to smoke the Iranian patrol boats, the incident would have been forgotten by next week. Now, the UK is humiliated by the tin-pot dictator of a piss-ant, backwards country.
 
Jose said:
Does the name USS Vincennes ring a bell? The CO of that ship mistook an approaching Iranian airliner for a hostile and blew it to kingdom come, killing all men, women, and children aboard.
Click to expand...

My brother-in-law was on board the Vincennes when that happened. He still can't talk about it without getting choked up.
 
Somehow, I can't feel sorry for any Iranian.

They declared war on us in 1979, and as far as I am concerned, we are still at war.

I believe in war the old fashioned way, where anyone and anything from the enemy country is a legitimate target.
 
Jose

Yes! I remember and Yes! World War.
The U.K. and the U.S.A. are not at the top of the Middle Eastern Popularity List. Iran is sleeping with Kim Jong, Russia, Germany and France are just looking for reasons, any reasons after the Food For Oil Attacks. China wants Taiwan. The Taliban and Al Queda wants anything that resembles an infidel and the Whole Arab Nation is piss at both of us for our Isreali support. If it didn't end up in a world War it would sure end up nasty. I'll bet that even Castro and Chavez would even jump in. We are spread a bit thin right now and if we were to be pulled into a war on a larger scale, we would be sucking wind.
I have no doubt that mistakes were made by the Commander, and God be with them if the hostages are killed. I do believe that the capt under the circumstances made ONE of several possible decisions and one that may not be overly popular but I feel is correct. I do not know all of the facts and there is still no proof other than Media reports that contact wasn't made with superiors. Firing over the bow could have ended the same way as http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2006/060719-missile-source.htm and or how about this Iranian weapon? http://www.rense.com/general59/theSunburniransawesome.htm and let us not forget the USS Stark (FFG-31).
I believe Iran is itching for a fight and like Kadhafy has no real idea what they would be biting into. The Mideast is a Bomb Dump with a lit fuze. Iran would move into Iraq team up with the Enemy forces there (after all they have been supplying them) and would escalate the violence to levels never before witnessed. God knows how many Land based missles were aiming at the Brits during their excercise. I think had the Brits chose to fire over the bow of the Iranian vessel, there would be Hell on Earth after. I have no doubt that Iran is far more prepared to fight than we think. They are just waiting for us to leave and they will take over Iraq and our nightmare will be just starting. The Brits would have accelerated this Hell if they put up any type of offensive force.
My opinion.
 
You mean the Passenger Airliner? No I didn't miss that. That was when Iran was still somewhat friendly with us from our help against Iraq, that was before Iran had this New President who hates us and who has aquired Nuke Power and before they started to Supply Weapons to Iraq Insurgeants to fight us.
THAT WAS THEN, THIS IS NOW. If we shot the airliner down now, there would be a Major confrontation, without question.
No! Jose, the area over there now is far more volitile than ever before.
 
Wingwiper, you severely overestimate the Iranians. They are chickenshit hostage takers afraid to take on a real military. Just like their Arab brothers.

Been that way since 1979.
 
Jose said:
Wingwiper, you severely overestimate the Iranians. They are chickenshit hostage takers afraid to take on a real military. Just like their Arab brothers.

Been that way since 1979.
Click to expand...

As you can tell from my rant when I started this post, I'm all for bombing Iran back to the stone age. But, I think we need to be very careful in the way we do it. Unless the Iranians are complete idiots, which they may be, they've seen how we surgically destroy the Iraqi's military power. If they have one brain between all thier leaders they should have learned and made adjustments to make sure they are not such easy targets. Don't get me wrong, I fully believe our military could wipe the floor with their military. I just believe we cannot charge in with an arrogant attitude. We may be the big dog in town, but even a big dog can get a bloodied nose before he rips the throat out of his enemy. A lot of Americans for some reason are pacifists (How the hell did that happen [angry] ) and a bloodied nose is all they need to scream how anything we do with Iran is a mistake.
 

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