25/300 Yard Zero - 200 Yard POI

[FalArAk]

So I zeroed my 16" AR at 25 yards using 77gr mk262 that is supposed to be dead on at 300 yards. I usually just zero rifles at 100, but figured I would try something different this time. Well, took it to 200 yards and the POI at 200 yards is around 10-12" high. I get that it won't be right on at 200, but 12" high at 200? Figured it would be a little off, but not that much.

Is this normal, or expected, did I read something wrong about the 25/300 zero?

What did I do wrong?

 

[Boghog1]

shouldn't be that high, plug in your number, you should be at most plus or minus a couple inches

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Calculates the ballistic trajectory of a bullet fired from a rifle, handgun or other firearm. Produces a ballistic trajectory chart and table that shows the drop, velocity, kinetic energy, windage, and trajectory of a bullet.

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[AJK129]

So I zeroed my 16" AR at 25 yards using 77gr mk262 that is supposed to be dead on at 300 yards. I usually just zero rifles at 100, but figured I would try something different this time. Well, took it to 200 yards and the POI at 200 yards is around 10-12" high. I get that it won't be right on at 200, but 12" high at 200? Figured it would be a little off, but not that much.

Is this normal, or expected, did I read something wrong about the 25/300 zero?

What did I do wrong?

Says it should be ~8in

 

[Admin]

Here is OP at Harvard.

 

[FalArAk]

shouldn't be that high, pug in your number, you should be at most plus or minus a couple inches

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Calculates the ballistic trajectory of a bullet fired from a rifle, handgun or other firearm. Produces a ballistic trajectory chart and table that shows the drop, velocity, kinetic energy, windage, and trajectory of a bullet.

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I am not the greatest shooter, I don't practice nearly enough.

But... The group that I did make(albeit 10-12"high) was MOA(2" spread) or slightly better, so I know it wasn't me jerking, pulling or whatever you do to the trigger oi rifle to pull your shots. Was a 5 shot "group".. Maybe I should just stick to 1 shot groups to make things easier

This is why I stopped shooting precision, I started getting way too frustrated lol

 

[FalArAk]

Here is OP at Harvard.

Ford?

Your high Admin.

 

[FalArAk]

Says it should be ~8in

Damn.. so it should be 8" high but nuts at 300?

I guess I can live with that, even though the farthest straggler was 10" from aiming point.

 

[Boghog1]

I am not the greatest shooter, I don't practice nearly enough.

But... The group that I did make(albeit 10-12"high) was MOA(2" spread) or slightly better, so I know it wasn't me jerking, pulling or whatever you do to the trigger oi rifle to pull your shots. Was a 5 shot "group".. Maybe I should just stick to 1 shot groups to make things easier

This is why I stopped shooting precision, I started getting way too frustrated lol

are you sure that you were aiming center of the target?

 

[FalArAk]

I think I am going to just go back to a 100 yard zero and just make adjustments for distance from there.

 

[FalArAk]

are you sure that you were aiming venter of the target?

Oh yeah.. I had 2 Shoot and See targets stacked on the same backing, around 12" difference from bullseye to bullseye.. After my first 5 rounds I didn't see any impact on the target, so I aimed at the bottom target and then the 5 rounds were grouped on the upper target.

 

[FalArAk]

So, with the 25/300 BZO, I should be nuts at 300?

That doesn't seem possible for a 77 gr bullet to drop that much POI from 200-300 yards.

 

[mac1911]

So I zeroed my 16" AR at 25 yards using 77gr mk262 that is supposed to be dead on at 300 yards. I usually just zero rifles at 100, but figured I would try something different this time. Well, took it to 200 yards and the POI at 200 yards is around 10-12" high. I get that it won't be right on at 200, but 12" high at 200? Figured it would be a little off, but not that much.

Is this normal, or expected, did I read something wrong about the 25/300 zero?

What did I do wrong?

this is a battle zero good for impacts on target center hold.

So I zeroed my 16" AR at 25 yards using 77gr mk262 that is supposed to be dead on at 300 yards. I usually just zero rifles at 100, but figured I would try something different this time. Well, took it to 200 yards and the POI at 200 yards is around 10-12" high. I get that it won't be right on at 200, but 12" high at 200? Figured it would be a little off, but not that much.

Is this normal, or expected, did I read something wrong about the 25/300 zero?

What did I do wrong?

 

[mac1911]

So, with the 25/300 BZO, I should be nuts at 300?

That doesn't seem possible for a 77 gr bullet to drop that much POI from 200-300 yards.

Your missing the Battle Zero "specs" your going to get hits on target TORSO size with out chaging your hold or sight adjustments this is for a 50yd zero a 25 yard zero is going to be a little different but same concept.

What you want to do is learn your come ups which are slightly different for that point of aim shot.

basic come ups from 100 zero - this will get you close to dial in your specific ammo/rifle/skills/lighting and so on. Even your position will change your come ups or a need to change them.


But ballistically these will get you closer than a Battle zero or Point Blank Rank

so 100 yard zero come ups
100-200 2min
200-300 2 min
300-400 3 min
400-500 4 min
500-600 4 min

then everything in between. You fine tune from there

 

[mac1911]

I am not the greatest shooter, I don't practice nearly enough.

But... The group that I did make(albeit 10-12"high) was MOA(2" spread) or slightly better, so I know it wasn't me jerking, pulling or whatever you do to the trigger oi rifle to pull your shots. Was a 5 shot "group".. Maybe I should just stick to 1 shot groups to make things easier

This is why I stopped shooting precision, I started getting way too frustrated lol

shooting precision requires a lot of everything ..... even changing ammo can really play with end results.

get to some cmp or nra service rifle matches it will help

 

[FalArAk]

shooting precision requires a lot of everything ..... even changing ammo can really play with end results.

Thanks.. I did learn from you that BZO means a center mass strike, not actual bullseye shooting. Things make a lot more sense now IRT BZO, I just assumed BZO was maintaining a perfect bullseye shot over known distances.

I appreciate your time and help.

 

[LakeTrout]

You might want to try forgetting preset zero numbers and get the maximum point blank range zero for your rifle, ammo, and target size. For example, plug in all the info and determine what size target you want to keep the group inside. Maybe its an 8" circle. In that case it will tell you where to zero your rifle so that the bullet will only be 4" high at its max highest above the bore, and 4" at its max lowest below the bore, before you need to adjust your scope or hold.

ShootersCalculator.com | Point Blank Range Calculator

Calculates the maximum point blank range of a firearm cartridge fired from a rifle or handgun.

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This made a huge difference in my for how I shoot.

 

[mac1911]

Thanks.. I did learn from you that BZO means a center mass strike, not actual bullseye shooting. Things make a lot more sense now IRT BZO, I just assumed BZO was maintaining a perfect bullseye shot over known distances.

I appreciate your time and help.

now just a percentage of hits with out changing anything. Now you can learn to use your front sight or even cross hairs to figure out roughly how far your torso sized target is and decide to hold on the shoulder line or the belly. this of course assumes a broad side full toros shot, lol

The more you keep track of what you do and what needs to be done the better and more refined you can get.
For example in serive rifle from 200-300 is roughly 2 min but for me sitting position. I can not but help cant the rifle so not only do I have to come up a touch more I need to adjust my wind age a few minutes. to get me back on center. Service rifle is a 6 moa aiming black with a 3 moa 10 ring.

 

[mac1911]

You might want to try forgetting preset zero numbers and get the maximum point blank range zero for your rifle, ammo, and target size. For example, plug in all the info and determine what size target you want to keep the group inside. Maybe its an 8" circle. In that case it will tell you where to zero your rifle so that the bullet will only be 4" high at its max highest above the bore, and 4" at its max lowest below the bore, before you need to adjust your scope or hold.

ShootersCalculator.com | Point Blank Range Calculator

Calculates the maximum point blank range of a firearm cartridge fired from a rifle or handgun.

shooterscalculator.com

This made a huge difference in my for how I shoot.

this works out to about 2-3 inches high at 100 yards give or take a 1/2 " or so , good for a lot of different cartridges. Of course your data will dictate more precise results

8" target is about a 20 yard near zero 200 ish far zero and maybe close to 300 yard max pbr.

 

[LakeTrout]

this works out to about 2-3 inches high at 100 yards give or take a 1/2 " or so , good for a lot of different cartridges. Of course your data will dictate more precise results

8" target is about a 20 yard near zero 200 ish far zero and maybe close to 300 yard max pbr.

20 seems a little too short. But I think you're right on about the 300 yard MPBR.

For the bullet specified in the OP, assuming the BC is .362ish and the velocity is about 2700 fps, I've got a 36 yard near zero, a 260 far zero, and a maximum point blank range of 302 yards. That also equates to 3.15" high at 100 yards.

So for the OP, this means if you zero your rifle like this you could hold dead on all the way out to 302 yards and only be 4" high or 4" low anywhere in between.

 

[paul73]

I think I am going to just go back to a 100 yard zero and just make adjustments for distance from there.

it depends upon the use case of the gun.
if you got a 20" AR and want to set it with a long scope and shoot longer distances - 100yds zero is more practical for that, as 100yds will be the top of the curve there.

more common is the 50/200 zero as it covers more use cases for a 16" gun. for that you first zero it at 50, then move to 200 and finalize it there, and do no touch the scope afterwards. works great if you use a second focal plane scope or lpvo.

i can never memorize which ones i set to what, so, lately i rezeroed all i have to a 100.

 

[FalArAk]

it depends upon the use case of the gun.
if you got a 20" AR and want to set it with a long scope and shoot longer distances - 100yds zero is more practical for that, as 100yds will be the top of the curve there.

more common is the 50/200 zero as it covers more use cases for a 16" gun. for that you first zero it at 50, then move to 200 and finalize it there, and do no touch the scope afterwards. works great if you use a second focal plane scope or lpvo.

i can never memorize which ones i set to what, so, lately i rezeroed all i have to a 100.

I'm not even gonna pretend this is for competition shooting..

I have an ATACR 1-8 and I just need to know that what I am aiming at within 200 yards will neutralize the threat.

 

[Broc]

so 100 yard zero come ups
100-200 2min
200-300 2 min
300-400 3 min
400-500 4 min
500-600 4 min

then everything in between. You fine tune from there

Making sure I read this right

So @ 200 is +2
@ 300 is +4? (From 100)
@ 400 is +7
...

Trying to understand if your +2 there is +2 from the +2.

 

[Tartakovsky]

50/200 zero

 

[DJBrad]

Making sure I read this right

So @ 200 is +2
@ 300 is +4? (From 100)
@ 400 is +7
...

Trying to understand if you +2 there is +2 from the +2.

He’s showing how bullet drop affects the longer distance, hence 4 mins.

 

[DJBrad]

Honestly I’m so scattered I have all my rifles zeroed for 100. If I move to big sky country I think I would spend more time on this stuff. Maybe it’s the 3 young kids and full time work.

Now, if I decide to clear cut a channel to 400 yards on my land then I would bob my head.

 

[paul73]

I'm not even gonna pretend this is for competition shooting..

I have an ATACR 1-8 and I just need to know that what I am aiming at within 200 yards will neutralize the threat.

the common sense best practice is to set 50/200 zero there.
i probably should do it, eventually, for all my 16" guns and tavor, once i get to it. just need to establish consistency in the zoo.

 

[AJK129]

the common sense best practice is to set 50/200 zero there.
i probably should do it, eventually, for all my 16" guns and tavor, once i get to it. just need to establish consistency in the zoo.

You'll still hit a target at 200 yards with a 100 yard zero without any adjustment too though

Assuming the target is torso shaped

 

[paul73]

You'll still hit a target at 200 yards with a 100 yard zero without any adjustment too though

Assuming the target is torso shaped

post #13 was an excellent illustration.
50/200 is really the best way to setup a short/mid range AR15. my constant problem is with mrad scopes and a mental block to do offset computation in me brain from 50/200 zero.
but i have a strelok pro now and it should work fine, just need to get all my guns with me and set them up properly, on m855 and reloads.

 

[centermass181]

So I zeroed my 16" AR at 25 yards using 77gr mk262 that is supposed to be dead on at 300 yards. I usually just zero rifles at 100, but figured I would try something different this time. Well, took it to 200 yards and the POI at 200 yards is around 10-12" high. I get that it won't be right on at 200, but 12" high at 200? Figured it would be a little off, but not that much.

Is this normal, or expected, did I read something wrong about the 25/300 zero?

What did I do wrong?

check out Ridgeline's video on point blank zero


View: https://youtu.be/i-c-LOczniQ


this is the way

 

[mac1911]

20 seems a little too short. But I think you're right on about the 300 yard MPBR.

For the bullet specified in the OP, assuming the BC is .362ish and the velocity is about 2700 fps, I've got a 36 yard near zero, a 260 far zero, and a maximum point blank range of 302 yards. That also equates to 3.15" high at 100 yards.

So for the OP, this means if you zero your rifle like this you could hold dead on all the way out to 302 yards and only be 4" high or 4" low anywhere in between.

Have to run your numbers and then get some real world data. Or DOPE.
OP the more you put in to it the , easier it gets. Especially if you stick with the same ammo.
Although the “rough” come ups work well to get you close

Lake trout: I was tossing out a guess , lol. Also trying to remember
From when I was doing the same thing.
My AK and SK are the only Battle Zero rifles . My 16” AR is set up at the 25m method for M885 buy I usually just fiddle with the sights anyway. Plus I dont blast much 62 NATO these days when theres more accurate fodder around.

Look to old school rifle hunters. Most zero for 2-3” high at 100 and this often gives a vital zone hit out to 250-300. Old school duplex reticle is a range finding reticle which can help you decide to hold a bit high or low. The more you learn to reference your sights/reticles to known target sizes and different distance the more precise you can be. Learned from my great uncle WWII vet.
M1 garand front sight , if the mnan sized “target” was fatter than the front sight center to belly hold if the front sight was fatter than the “target” shoulder line aim.
But getting that presentation is not easy.

post #13 was an excellent illustration.
50/200 is really the best way to setup a short/mid range AR15. my constant problem is with mrad scopes and a mental block to do offset computation in me brain from 50/200 zero.
but i have a strelok pro now and it should work fine, just need to get all my guns with me and set them up properly, on m855 and reloads.

just remember mixing ammo is going to toss tour results off a bit.
My 16” AR is the only one I did the 25m zero with M855 as I had a ton of it at the time. I have my sights marked with paint for that zero.