Now that my LTC saga is finally over my next dilemma is which firearms to purchase first. Now as I hear a collective groan and muttered curses about newbies and their stupid questions, I will say that I have put some thought and research already into this decision and I am simply looking for personal recommendations. I have already decided my first handgun will be a .22lr. I am leaning toward revolvers mainly S&Ws. Looking at various local gun shops' web sites, it appears my options are a new 617 or a used model 17. Both seem to have excellent reputations. I am leaning toward a 6" barrel because I plan to shoot with the iron sights and figured the sight radius would help. My other thought was that if I went with say a 6" 617 (6 round) then I could follow it up with a 6" 686. Being extremely similar guns I figured any practice with the 617 would directly translate to the 686 in terms of muscle memory sight picture etc. The same would be true with say a model 17 and model 19 combo or a 1911 with a .22 conversion for that matter would it not? The only other consideration I have is that I have yet to sell a firearm and have no plans to. At this point I have no problem spending more money on something that is a quality firearm as I am planning on using and enjoying it the rest of my life (21 yrs old now). So anyone have an opinion on a 617 or 17? Any recommendations or advice you can throw at me will be greatly appreciated. Thanks
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.22lr Revolver
- Thread starter DTR
- Start date
I shot a 617 4" 10 shot in my basic pistol class and liked it. I went with a semi-auto for my first gun, but the 617 will probably be my next 22LR handgun. I think I'd prefer the 4" as the 6" looks weirdly proportioned to me.
You already got it. They're both good revolvers. I like the k-22. The 617 is nice too. Don't fall for the silly 10 round cylinders. The 686 6" is a great gun too. Great gun, does everything from bullseye to nightstand to woods stuff.
You already have the right logic working, don't listen to anyone else. The only thing I can say is try to find the older pin barrel stuff, pre lock. Buy them used for four to five hundred dollars at the gun shows. You're not gonna find a pin barreled 686 though because they didn't make them. But the k-22 you will.
And if your shooting bullseye which is all that you will do with a 22 lr revolver, never get anything shorter than 6" gun.
You already have the right logic working, don't listen to anyone else. The only thing I can say is try to find the older pin barrel stuff, pre lock. Buy them used for four to five hundred dollars at the gun shows. You're not gonna find a pin barreled 686 though because they didn't make them. But the k-22 you will.
And if your shooting bullseye which is all that you will do with a 22 lr revolver, never get anything shorter than 6" gun.
What's wrong with the 10 shot cylinders other than being a bit more work to clean?
SW is the cream but don't rule out the very good Ruger series of 22 revolvers. Less money than an SW but a very good gun.
www.ruger.com
www.ruger.com
TY43215
NES Member
Lots of misinformation in one post.
The 617 10 shot is the way to go. It allows you plinking fun, bulls eye shooting, Steel Challenge type shooting, small game elimination and a lot more.
The 10 round cylinder allows you to buy speed loaders for it and really have fun. When I bought my 617, I could only find one with a 6 round cylinder so off to S&W it went to get the 10 shot fitted to it.
The best way to learn trigger control is with a revolver. The cheapest revolver to shoot is a 22lr revolver. After that, going to any other DA revolver is a very easy step.
I practice USPSA & IDPA scenarios with my 617 for cheap shooting. I also use it in the rimfire division for Steel Challenge at times. Then I have a C More for open division when I really feel reckless, and a PDP4 Dot for other times.
As far as pre lock vs a gun with a lock, I can get a much better action job on the newer models. The lock is a non issue just a myth.
Lots of things other than "just bulls eye"
I've had all the 22 revolvers mentioned, I sold them all and currently have the 4 inch 10 shot 617. It really is a great gun and the way to go.
It balances a lot better than a 6 inch and you can't notice any difference in accuracy up to 50ft. Any one would be happy with one.
It balances a lot better than a 6 inch and you can't notice any difference in accuracy up to 50ft. Any one would be happy with one.
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
DTR, I have a 4" 10-shot 617 and I love it. Great revolver. I also have a 6" 7-shot 686, and I wish I'd gotten it in 4" - then I could use it in IDPA. Other than that one little thing, they're both great guns and will stay in my collection - their next owners will be my heirs.
It would still be a pain in the ass in IDPA since the revolver classes are limited to 6 rounds.
I know they're limited to 4". I was just pointing out that changing from 6 to 4" would still leave you uncomfortable in IDPA. 7 shooters are legal to use, but you can only load 6. When I decide to try revolver in IDPA, I'll be buying a 610, 625, or 686 SSR.
Sorry to OP for the thread drift. Good luck with your revolver search. I'd suggest trying them out or at least handling in a store. Or just buy a 617, they're hard to go wrong with.
Sorry to OP for the thread drift. Good luck with your revolver search. I'd suggest trying them out or at least handling in a store. Or just buy a 617, they're hard to go wrong with.
Okay, first of all those are your opinions. My post did not have misinformation. If you have a need for a 22 lr. to have more cylinders than 6 and you like the looks then more power to you. For me they serve no purpose.
And as for the lock issue, the pre lock revolvers needed no trigger job. The stainless guns were stiffer and later versions of Smith revolvers had a stiffer pull. This was solved with a reduced power rebound spring. The revolvers still broke clean and needed no trigger job like you speak of. The new lock revolvers have certain MIM parts inside them where removing metal from them actually should not be done.
I am talking about single action triggers too, mind you. I don't use DA on my revolvers for bullseye.
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They're like you said, a whole lot to clean if you do a thorough job cleaning your gun. They're not for me, I think they're ugly. Some people think they're pretty. I don't see any reason to have 10 shots in your gun because I am not an IDPA shooter or Action pistol shooter. I shoot bullseye, so that's my opinion. And it is just one opinion. I have no idea how many shots an IDPA guy would need. So there you have my opinion, I wouldn't want to load a cylinder with more than 5 rounds. Thats a habbit that you get when the ammo boxes come in rows of 5 rounds and boxes of 50. Also it carries over from my single action shooting.
While I respect most of Round Guns comments, I think there is a slight difference with the ten shot 617. The hand moving the cylinder travels less, and therefore the trigger pull is shorter than on the 6 shot version. I don't find that offensive, but if your goal is to train muscle memory for shooting other revolvers, I think that would be better accomplished by a 6 round cylinder, especially at first.
I love the 6" K22 Masterpiece. It's a much better fitted gun that a 17 or a 617, in my opinion. I just like the feel of the old works.
I might suggest that you look into a Model 18 also. While it is a 4" barrel, it is a great .22, and as a K frame, it duplicates the feel and action of most other K frame Smith's, which I think are the cream of the crop.
After a two hour session with Round Gun Shooter, trigger control is not an issue. According to him, that is how long it would take him to teach you the technique. I'd take his advice any day, I just prefer a six round cylinder and the similar habits you build with all other 6 round revolvers.
If you've never tried a Model 18, you owe it to yourself to try one.
I love the 6" K22 Masterpiece. It's a much better fitted gun that a 17 or a 617, in my opinion. I just like the feel of the old works.
I might suggest that you look into a Model 18 also. While it is a 4" barrel, it is a great .22, and as a K frame, it duplicates the feel and action of most other K frame Smith's, which I think are the cream of the crop.
After a two hour session with Round Gun Shooter, trigger control is not an issue. According to him, that is how long it would take him to teach you the technique. I'd take his advice any day, I just prefer a six round cylinder and the similar habits you build with all other 6 round revolvers.
If you've never tried a Model 18, you owe it to yourself to try one.
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TY43215
NES Member
Thanks for the kind words, the trigger pull is exactly the same. The cylinder moves slightly less because the hand is different. Muscle memory with a revolver trigger pull is based on the pull length of the trigger which remains constant except for weight, on all S&W double action revolvers.
TY43215
NES Member
And your experience in this is what? I have been working on S&W revolvers repairing and tuning since being trained at S&W to do this work in 1981. I can guaranty I have worked on more revolvers than you would care to see.
The pre lock actions of the 1950s and early 60s were good but could be improved. The Bangor Punta and Lear Siegler era guns need more work than the current production ever will. As far as repairing trigger pulls with reduced rebound springs, that is a crutch, not a cure.
As for MIM parts, there is less fitting with the MIM parts than with the carbon steel or stainless parts. I don't know where your information came from, but mine comes from actual bench work with revolvers.
You now state your were talking SA trigger pull. Your sweeping first statement did not state that.
As for my post being just opinion, not quite. The shooting sports have many places for the 22LR revolver. You stated the only place was bulls eye. Well Sir, that was an incorrect statement. Maybe it was just your opinion
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
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Garys
NES Member
I recently bought a Model 18 from Collector's Gallery and I love it. I shoot it with Winchester copper plated ammunition and found it to be very accurate. More accurate than I am, but that's not saying all that much. It's the perfect compliment for my two Model 10s and of course much less expensive to shoot.
I don't think you'll go wrong with any S&W .22LR revolver.
I don't think you'll go wrong with any S&W .22LR revolver.
B.S. Every older K frame I've ever came across has a single action trigger that'll break if you sneeze on it with a reduced power spring. Don't know about DA.
And this is a good thing? How? Guns whos internal workings are fitted to eachother are going to be smoother and break cleaner. Hence the definition of a trigger job.
MIM parts have a hard layer of metal on the outside but that layer is thin and the metal in the middle is softer. Grinding these parts down or taking metal off of them compromises the strength of the part and changes the surface.
TY43215
NES Member
Well then I will need to ask your advice. What is the minimum SA trigger pull that is safe on a K frame revolver? Also, what weight spring are you recommending? Is the spring a factory part?
Edit to add, I gave you my qualifications for my opinions, you never gave yours but I am always willing to learn more from a more experienced revolver smith.
And Ross, try the big bucket
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Well then I will need to ask your advice. What is the minimum SA trigger pull that is safe on a K frame revolver? Also, what weight spring are you recommending? Is the spring a factory part?
Edit to add, I gave you my qualifications for my opinions, you never gave yours but I am always willing to learn more from a more experienced revolver smith.
And Ross, try the big bucket
The qualifications of my opinions come from owning, shooting, and working on Smith & Wesson revolvers. Simple as that. Take it or leave it, I don't care what you do with it. You don't have to be a gunsmith to know that a 5 screw k-22 pre model 17 has an action that blows the doors off of later models and especially current 22LR k frames with locks in them. In fact, going from a 5 screw to a 4 screw there's a noticeable difference.
TY43215
NES Member
Well then I will need to ask your advice. What is the minimum SA trigger pull that is safe on a K frame revolver? Also, what weight spring are you recommending? Is the spring a factory part?
Edit to add, I gave you my qualifications for my opinions, you never gave yours but I am always willing to learn more from a more experienced revolver smith.
And Ross, try the big bucket
Could you please answer my spring question? Since 90% of my work is DA revolvers, your help would be appreciated.
No, I am not going to play tit for tat with you. With all the experience you listed, you ought to know the answers to your questions. If you are asking them of me because you think you can fool me then you are being pretty immature and are not adding anything to the thread but childish bickering.
Oh, and welcome to 2008 home of the Google search. If you think that there aren't answers to your questions that can't be "Googled" (The act of searching for information within the search feature of the Google browser), then you need to get up to speed. Why do I say this? Because if what you asked of me was something that I did not know I could easily google the answer and prove nothing about my knowledge of revolvers. Grow up a bit and stick to the thread. If you want to start your own thread about testing people on their knowledge in order to compare their "qualifications" to yours, start your own thread.
It's scary that someone like you has been able to defy natural selection long enough to learn how to type. Get a life.
You come into a discussion with no intent to add to it anything of value, but to insult someone. That's precious. Perhaps you are the person whom others are not so fortunate to have around.
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TY43215
NES Member
Now I will answer, you come on a public forum with unqualified opinions with nothing to back them up and expect a young shooter to take your word for it. You do a disservice to new shooters with this type of attitude.
Some points you either neglect or do not know from your limited experience:
Any S&W revolver is a fine tool to learn on.
Bulls eye is not the only sport out there. It is a fine activity, but not the only one.
Giving opinion to new shooters is a good thing if you give out correct information. Because you have done something for years does not mean you did it correctly.
The statements you make like
And
and
And finally your need for google to repair revolvers all show how little you know.
You have experience, as stated by you, limited to Bulls Eye. Well Sir, I suggest before you make sweeping statements, you qualify them with that limited experience rather than chase a new shooter away from a fine product line that will do all that he probably wants to do.
You were correct on the baiting, but I don't have to google for the answer. The minumum safe SA trigger pull for a S&W revolver is over three pounds. The trigger must hold three pounds weight to be properly adjusted as one of the safety features of the revolver.
Rebound springs lighten the SA pull but to make them safe to use there are other adjustments that need to be made to the trigger.
As far as your other snide comments, I will not lower myself to your level on those. You, Sir, can continue to perpetuate the myths of the Internet or you can learn the proper way to do things and help new shooters.
DONE
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This is your opinion and your completely wrong. Give a new shooter a .357 j frame snubbie and try teaching them how to shoot.
Yes, and the same goes for you and whatever world you live in where you think that modern revolvers with a lock in them are anywhere near the quality of the older ones that were pin barrel guns.
Right, where was it again that I said I needed google to repair a revolver? And besides that, how would the internet and all of the information of similar experiences of other gunsmiths be a bad tool to look at or in any way show how little someone knows?
Perhaps you've never shot an older K frame with a reduced power rebound spring in one. There are no adjustments that need to be made the triggers on those guns are as good as it gets, throwing your money at a gunsmith to enhance the trigger on one is completely unnecessary.
Nice way to say a whole lot of things about nothing. Well, likewise to you.
Are you gentlemen done yet? ![[popcorn]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/043.gif "Popcorn [popcorn]")
Yes? Okay great...![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
DTR... You're going to be happy with both the 617 and the 17/18. I've fired the 617 before and it's tons of fun. I can't imagine the 17/18 would be any different. You just have to figure out if you want the "classic"... or the new model![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Both will treat you well.
I'm going to go ahead and throw out the S&W Model 34 out there as well...If for no other reason except it's one that I own. Only 2" and 4" barrel models were ever made, but it's a great .22 revolver if you like size of the J frame/improved I frame.
Like you, a .22 handgun was on my list... and I was actually looking for a 4" 617 or a 17/18 but was holding out for a good deal on one. One day I came across this unfired model 34 2" with pristine nickel finish... and it had to come home with me. It's a lot of fun... accurate as it can be with a 2" barrel.
Anyway... if you can find a 4" 34... it's a great gun.
If it's definitely between the 617 and the 17... it's really just a personal preference... whether or not you want the classic revolver... or the late model revolver![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
And here are a few pics of my 34... just had to do it.
Yes? Okay great...
DTR... You're going to be happy with both the 617 and the 17/18. I've fired the 617 before and it's tons of fun. I can't imagine the 17/18 would be any different. You just have to figure out if you want the "classic"... or the new model
Both will treat you well.I'm going to go ahead and throw out the S&W Model 34 out there as well...If for no other reason except it's one that I own. Only 2" and 4" barrel models were ever made, but it's a great .22 revolver if you like size of the J frame/improved I frame.
Like you, a .22 handgun was on my list... and I was actually looking for a 4" 617 or a 17/18 but was holding out for a good deal on one. One day I came across this unfired model 34 2" with pristine nickel finish... and it had to come home with me. It's a lot of fun... accurate as it can be with a 2" barrel.
Anyway... if you can find a 4" 34... it's a great gun.
If it's definitely between the 617 and the 17... it's really just a personal preference... whether or not you want the classic revolver... or the late model revolver
And here are a few pics of my 34... just had to do it.
