22LR Kaboom in AR conversion

cekim

cekim

Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
29,885
Likes
4,694
Location
Clowns->Here<-Jokers
Feedback: 3 / 0 / 0
Well, my first thought was dumb/bad luck on the first firing, but while cleaning up and running some searches, it occurred to me that I need to understand what happened here...

The setup:
- Colt M4 relatively new - no issues firing 223/556 - eaten about 750 rounds so far this year
- Insert brand new spike's AR conversion and...
- CCI high velocity copper coated rounds

7 rounds through at reasonable rate
8th round KABOOMs.... (picture at the end of this post).

Nothing/No one injured - upper cleared out and inspected, looks fine, conversion bolt looks fine as well... No squib, cleared breach and pulled bolt on the scene to verify clear barrel and prior shot (and KB'd shot) were seen/noted on the target...

2 possibilities AFAIK:
1. Brass failure
2. case not seated when fired

So, is this a "picky with ammo" situation? A random/rare failure? Tight chamber? Should I be concerned/changing ammo, or just chalk it up to dumb luck and and go back to plinkage?
primer_blow.jpg
 
I have no experience with the AR conversion kits, but I do know that a lot of different 22 barrels for a multitude of different guns are very picky when it comes to using CCI ammunition. Not sure if the kit you got specified if it does not like to accept given types of ammunition but if you haven't checked I would. A problem usually associated with the CCI in other guns is i think a feeding issue. I have never seen a 22 blow out like that before in any of my guns, it is possible that their was a flaw with just that bullet. If you have another 22 maybe try cycling some of that ammo through it and see if it has any problems.
 
At this point I have a few thousand rounds through my Spike conversion. I have not had an issue like that. With mine, the hammer won't fall if the conversion bolt isn't all they way forward.

You are saying CCI High Velocity. Are these Mini Mags? Mine doesn't like the Mini Mags. FTFeed and FTEject issues.
 
Last edited:
Danrk6 said:
Not sure if the kit you got specified if it does not like to accept given types of ammunition but if you haven't checked I would.
Click to expand...
They do spec copper jacketed to avoid feed ramp fouling, but other than that, I am not aware of any "no CCI" restriction...

I haven't yet tried to run any of those through my 10/22, I guess I will try that next...

I've only ever used bare lead Federal and Winchester in the 10/22... This was my first use of copper coated 22LR in anything...
 
I am new to the .22 conversion scene. I have not seen or heard of any issues like you explain above. I recently bought a Ciener Kit and have 500-800 rounds through it. So far has been excellent and only one FTE with Remington Thunderbolt.

Personally I would send an email to Spikes, maybe with the picture above as an attachment to see what their response may be.....
 
jeez. if anything people DO recommend CCI mini mags in guns that are picky. i was told that mini-mags are recommended in my mosquito and i've found that my 10/22 really loves them as well.

definitely let us know what spikes says, too. it's good that there was no damage and there were no injuries though. stuff going bang more than expected is never good.
 
That certainly looks like an out-of-battery fired casing... the bolt didn't close all the way, but it wasn't out far enough for the interlock to prevent firing...
 
I agree, it looks like it was out of battery. I had one of these with a CCI Stinger in my old Colt conversion kit, blowing the extractor clean out of the gun (and amazingly, right into the wall beside me so it was easy to find and recover and reinstall)
 
I had this happen with my Remi 597. Blew the extractor clear out of the gun and scared the bagezz out of me. I was using Federal 22's.
 
I agree. It looks like the round went off before it was all the way in the chamber. I had this happen with a 1022 at the last appleseed shoot at HSC. I think Spikes says he tests all his conversions and .22 uppers with Walmart bulk pack ammo.
 
MrTwigg said:
Where is the firing pin strike on the rear of the casing ? On the blown out section ?
Click to expand...
The "bulge" you see in the picture is at the bottom shell as oriented in the barrel. The firing pin struck at the top opposite the bulge. Or in that picture on the "back" of the shell as it rests on the table.

It's there, though a lot of material at the top was lost...

The top of the casing looks as if it were seated (i.e. the crease in the case is intact at the top) - its only the bottom that looks OOB, but that's likely just where the brass was weaker so it gave before the top could...

gerrycaruso said:
I think Spikes says he tests all his conversions and .22 uppers with Walmart bulk pack ammo.
Click to expand...
Indeed - I have the paper beside me - went to Walmart, but they were dry of bulk-packs... [sad2] That's how I ended up with the CCI's...
 
I had the same problem with a DPMS 22LR upper. The rounds weren't completely chambering and the gun would occasionally fire out of battery, blowing the case and spreading the extractors ($12 each) and springs all over the range. I had to sweep up th firing line and go over the sweepings with a magnet to find the parts. The problem was a rough chamber. A thorough polishing cured the problem.
 
MassMark said:
Wow...I love CCI's. Never heard of them being problematic in anything....Have you retested?
Click to expand...
Not yet - this happened on Sunday...

I may be back at the range tomorrow afternoon at which point I will run some CCI's through the 10/22...

Waiting to hear from Spike's before I put anything else through the conversion kit though...
 
Last edited:
That's weird. Except for tolerance stacking in the wrong direction which could be the case here, the hammer should should fall even if the bolt is slightly out of battery. That does not mean however that with your convrsion kit that it will set off a round. I think it was very slightly out of battery so that the bolt tail (so to speak) did not prevent the hammer from striking the firing pin. Check the lot of ammo the mini mags came from and carefully examine the remaining ctgs. Are they overly waxy, too much lube? I saw a box of mini mags a month or so ago from Wal Mart that were caked in the wax lube.

We've shot about 19,000 rounds out of a dedicated upper I built for my M16 using a Ciener kit and an amazing assortment of ammo. CCI mini mags were one of the best rounds tested.
If you can bring it to Harvard Sportsmen's Club this coming weekend let me know. I'll take a look at it for you.
 
Good read, thanks for posting this.
I have been debating on doing a conversion kit... good information here.
 
Seems out of battery but I have an odd question. Do you remember if you actually pulled the trigger for the 8th shot? I ask this only because on some dedicated .22 uppers, if you don't change out the trigger spring to a lighter one, they have a tendancy to go full auto as the hammer won't engage completely and follows the bolt back.
 
Taipan01 said:
Seems out of battery but I have an odd question. Do you remember if you actually pulled the trigger for the 8th shot? I ask this only because on some dedicated .22 uppers, if you don't change out the trigger spring to a lighter one, they have a tendancy to go full auto as the hammer won't engage completely and follows the bolt back.
Click to expand...
Definitely pulled the trigger...

I aimed, fired, noted the hit on the paper about the same time as the mild stinging on my hand/forearm and the cloud of smoke coming out of the lower...
 
Hmm, waxy bullets? Looks like the wax/lubricant they are using to load is spilling over at the bullet/case boundary... Might be hard to see, but some do have a fair amount there at the edge of the case...

I have already cleaned out the chamber of the LR conversion kit, so I wouldn't see it, but perhaps it might be good to give the bullets a wipe and try again?

I can see what is coming off of here building up pretty quickly...

waxy_bullets.jpg


No email response from Spike's. I didn't call them yesterday, I will try later today...
 
This is sort of a thread drift....

Is it possible to tell me the lot number of those rounds?

I know CCI has two manufacturing facilities. There has been an issue with their Standard Velocity having excess wax. I'll see if I can find the link on RimfireCentral that talks about it and link it here.

I had bought a few bricks of the overly waxed stuff and it quickly gums up the feedramp and chamber.

ETA: Rimfirecentral link
 
Last edited:
Taipan01 said:
Seems out of battery but I have an odd question. Do you remember if you actually pulled the trigger for the 8th shot? I ask this only because on some dedicated .22 uppers, if you don't change out the trigger spring to a lighter one, they have a tendancy to go full auto as the hammer won't engage completely and follows the bolt back.
Click to expand...

It has been my experience that anything less than a full power hammer spring will not reliably ignite 22 LR ammo.
 
Gammon said:
It has been my experience that anything less than a full power hammer spring will not reliably ignite 22 LR ammo.
Click to expand...

Not in mine. On my third upper, standard lowers, same company. If I don't go with a lighter spring I'll go auto. I don't have a problem with ignition.
 

Similar threads

22lr with silencer
Replies
16
Views
282
peterk123
P
Sig Sauer P365 conversion possibilities
Replies
17
Views
536
jkelly1229
J
Fudds gotta fudd. No AR class in Maine.
Replies
6
Views
483
rogersmithiii
R
HK USC to UMP conversion?
Replies
21
Views
342
NHKevin
NHKevin
Blue AR parts?
Replies
14
Views
372
Ricky_Bobby
Ricky_Bobby
Back
Top Bottom