Judge is honest and pissed enough to throw the Prosecution's case out if the DA tries that. Even if convicted I could see the Judge reducing the sentencing to time served and the record expunged due to being a minor.
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17-year-old arrested in killing of 2 people in Kenosha
- Thread starter Toast
- Start date
AHM
NES Member
Was Kyle's bail deposited by him, or on his behalf by third parties?
A directed verdict of Not Guilty tells the world
"It was self-defense. Change my mind".
A judgment of conviction with a fine(*)
tells the world "the rioters needed shooting".
Which is a judge more likely to suck for?
But what is this "expunged record", and how would it interact with FPP law?
eboos
NES Member
A directed verdict, or a required finding of not guilty, would mean that at the conclusion of the State's case (and after the conclusion of the Defense's case if the motion was denied at the first instance) the facts presented, as a matter of law, are insufficient to sustain a conviction on the charge(s). In my experience in a bench trial a judge is unwilling to allow the motion but will still render a not guilty verdict. As to jury trials: a judge can reserve the ruling on the motion until after the jury reaches a verdict. The State may have the right to appeal any allowed motion, particularly if granted after a jury finds the Defendant guilty. I would expect that unless the State's case was so bad a judge will not give a required finding.
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The judge just excused the jury to a break due to the ADA repeatedly trying to get hearsay in to evidence by way of a 3rd party video. This is after a shorter break to argue the same point. The judge is miffed, again.
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Quite_Exasperated
NES Member
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Why is Foxnews ignoring this trial?
It’s 2021 and you still don’t understand what the MSM is about? How disappointing. I had hoped by now at least people on NES wouldn’t still be so blinded by their propaganda.
If this ends up in the hands of the jury, I’m afraid Rittenhouse will be screwed. Jury’s are even more unpredictable than judges. This judge seems reasonable but even then, they often do a good job of wearing a mask on the bench and unmasking in their rulings.
If there isn’t a direct verdict upon conclusion of the prosecutions case the odds of a positive outcome go way down.
If there isn’t a direct verdict upon conclusion of the prosecutions case the odds of a positive outcome go way down.
eboos
NES Member
Agreed. Fox News is no ally. Their "news" is more concerned with CNN's ratings than anything of substance. If you want to see their true stance, just look at the 2020 election coverage.
eboos
NES Member
I cannot agree with this. Although a directed verdict is a standard motion, allowing it would be the exception. I would not expect it to be allowed here.
I don’t know what you mean by allowed but in any case, I’m not saying I expect it. I’m saying without one Rittenhouse is unlikely to not be screwed in some capacity.
Rockrivr1
NES Member
Maybe I'm behind on this one, but didn't the defense ask for a Bench Verdict? I thought I had heard that somewhere.
eboos
NES Member
By allowed I mean: a directed verdict (or required finding of not guilty) is requested by motion. The motion is either allowed or denied.
Buck F
NES Member
I'm not really following the bench/direct verdict argument, but if it does go to a jury do you think there are 12 people anywhere that will find Rittenhouse guilty of the charges, with the exception of perhaps the misdemeanor weapons charge?
Mesatchornug
NES Member
12 people not on gun boards? Sure. Most of the world is still nose-deep in CNN. They're the most likely jurors. They've come in claiming an ability to maintain impartiality, but they've also spent a year listening to CNN saying that he "murdered" those "poor folks."
Hell, even on this site, folks can't separate "homicide" from "murder" nor drop their emotional pleas against "the other team."
eboos
NES Member
Homicide: literally, the killing of a person by another.
Murder: the unlawful and intentional, killing of a person by another, or unintentionally causing the death of a person while in the commission of a dangerous felony.
The word "homicide" does not describe whether the act was justified or not, or intentional or not, only that the death of one person was the result of the actions of another person. Therefore, a homicide investigation does not necessarily equate to a murder investigation (although it may evolve into such), particularly when the death may have been accidental, or with a justification such as self-defense.
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Much of what is coming out in trial I already knew from watching all the videos when this happened, though it’s some of the stuff that is not coming out that’s interesting.
For example, if you watched the video you’ll see what appears to be several muzzle flashes coming from behind Kyle (someone shooting at Kyle) after Rosenbaum committed suicide. You also see later on jump kick guy get shot at and runaway just before skaterboi’s untimely death. What’s interesting is that after all this time, police and prosecutors still don’t know who these people are? The FBI was conducting surveillance and also doesn’t know anything, and don’t think they have all the video anymore?
The system is powerful and will use its power to ruin anyone they choose.
For example, if you watched the video you’ll see what appears to be several muzzle flashes coming from behind Kyle (someone shooting at Kyle) after Rosenbaum committed suicide. You also see later on jump kick guy get shot at and runaway just before skaterboi’s untimely death. What’s interesting is that after all this time, police and prosecutors still don’t know who these people are? The FBI was conducting surveillance and also doesn’t know anything, and don’t think they have all the video anymore?
The system is powerful and will use its power to ruin anyone they choose.
eboos
NES Member
Fixed.
HARRYM
NES Member
The Government was allowing ANTIFA and Black Lives Matter to run wild, riot, attack anyone who didn't agree with them, bullied business patrons, breaking multiple laws at will. Some folks had enough and made a stand against criminals. The young man came to support those who were against the criminals. He did his best to avoid discharging his firearm, more than he should have, when assaulted, as in any assault, you are a victim or you fight back, you have that right to defend yourself. The criminals made their choice, Kyle had no choice but to use his God Given Right AND his Constitutional Right of self defense. That's just the way it went down. It's a textbook self defense case.
Difficulty: Wisconsin.
Legally the court can take the two million upon conviction, and Kyle would then be in debt to to the third parties if they choose to try to get repaid.
Buck F
NES Member
I'm not saying 12 people will find him not guilty but I have a hard time believing that all 12 people on that jury will find him guilty. All you need is one person to hold out for a hung jury and all you need is a few to convince the others to acquit. Given the Judge's rulings so far and what we saw during jury selection, I'd be amazed if all 12 of those jurors find him guilty.
Mesatchornug
NES Member
You're on the short list of folks I would not doubt.
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As is seen far too often, in cases like this in which he’s facing multiple charges, it’s not uncommon for split juries to ‘compromise’, and find him guilty of one (or more) of the a less serious charges instead of acquitting or being hung.
clancy dogg
NES Member
Not to get the thread off topic, but what do you think is going on here with Dershowitz? Was he misquoted, or going senile, or am I missing something?
This. Especially when he makes it easy by being a minor in possession of a firearm.
I know the law has carve-outs, but a jury that wants to punish him just a li’l bit has that misdemeanor available.
AHM
NES Member
That's a tender subject.
Why aren't you discussing that article where it is already being discussed?
Same reason they were the last cable news network to call the VA election last night. Fox is Paul Ryan's plaything to con boomers than don't know the network is no longer conservative friendly.
clancy dogg
NES Member
Because I was asking a question of Eboos, who was posting here. Congratulations on your promotion to junior moderator. Maybe I should post that here-
eboos
NES Member
Not having heard the words spoken by him I can only suggest that maybe either he misspoke and got hung up using the wrong term, or he was misquoted.
Not to get the thread off topic, but what do you think is going on here with Dershowitz? Was he misquoted, or going senile, or am I missing something?
As far as definitions go, homicide does not leave any ambiguity. There are other charges that contain the word homicide, such as vehicular homicide, but homicide in itself is not a crime. The crime would be the action that resulted in the homicide.
eboos
NES Member
The discussion of the difference between homicide and murder made that relevant here.
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