Zeroing in an AR-15 for HP competition

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Would anyone recommend the Battle site zero to zero for an AR .
The rear is set up for 300 -600. If I adjust the front post so that my aim point is at 200 yds, won't this throw off my 4,5,and 600 yd markings on the rear sight.
Thanks, Mike
 
Completely outside your the qualifier of your question "for an IDPA competition", I simply set mine to 300m using the same 300 meter simulated Army targets at 25 meters I used in basic training. And then I adjust my sight picture on closer targets accordingly.

Four seasons posted a way to sett the sights at 200 should you want to: http://www.fsguns.com/ibsz.html
 
Completely outside your the qualifier of your question "for an IDPA competition", I simply set mine to 300m using the same 300 meter simulated Army targets at 25 meters I used in basic training. And then I adjust my sight picture on closer targets accordingly.

Four seasons posted a way to sett the sights at 200 should you want to: http://www.fsguns.com/ibsz.html

I think the 4 seasons link is in referce to this http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...ht-Zero-for-the-M4-Carbine-M16A2-Riflearticle.
Compliments of LTC Chuck Santose

I am not talking about IDPA . I am talking NRA/CMP high power matches.

Mike
 
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Since HP is a known-distance course, I zero my high-power rifle on each line individually and mark the number of clicks up on the left side of the receiver with silver sharpie. Your zeros will fluctuate a bit depending on the range you happen to be on, lighting conditions, etc., but they should stay within a few clicks.

Most of the national match sights (including the White Oak) don't even have yard markings on them like military sights do. Mine (also White Oak) just count up by 5's, so it goes 5-10-15-20 and then loops back around. I've seen others (Rock River?) that don't have any numbers at all. If your upper does have yard markings (actually meter markings if I'm not mistaken) you should probably just ignore them because they're calibrated for 55 or 62 grain military ammo anyway.....

(On a side note, my tactical rifles are zeroed using the Santos method.)
 
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the more I think about the more I get a bit confused.
1. my problem is 90% of my shooting and practice will be on the 100 yard range aside from a few matches i am trying to attend in 2012 so I will try to relay whats in my mind.

If you set your sights at 50 yards useing the yardage reduction target that simulates the 200 yard target with the particular ammo you intend to use your point of aim and point of impact @ 50 yards should be the same at 200 yards, correct. So if I sight in useing the 6oc hold and adjust for impact in the X more or less the 200 yard line shots will hit the X if i use the 6oc hold still. Im I thinking this correctly.
Is there a chart or calculator that can tell me from that point on with my particular ammo the number of clicks for other yardages.
I know these A2 sights are ment for 55-62 grain bullets @ 3100fps or so. The 68 grain loads I am useing are by load data running 2800fps.
So what or where can you get a general idea of the clicks needed or even just the drop or rise in bullet path for a particular yardage.

I have my current A2 cheep detachable sight on my 16" upper. I did the 25 meter sight in target with some XM193 and it shoots a bit high @ 100 yards.
I have no elevation adjustments left on the rear sight to compensate and I dont want to play with the front sight ever time I change distance with that upper. When I finally get to the range to do the 50 yard 0 on my new RRA NM I will be useing my reloads.
Also I tried printing some 50y reduction targets and they are not comeing out well. How big should should the black be on the 50 yard reduced target.
 
You need to start thinking in terms of MOA for your come-ups. Some use 1/4's, some use 1/2's, so MOA works better than clicks.

From a 200yd zero, it's about 3 minutes to a 300yd zero.
From 300, it's about another 10 or 11 minutes to a 600yd zero.
Those are assuming you use the same hold at all yardages (6 O'clock or COM).

Those are ballpark, but close enough to be in the black for your first shot. They work with any of the common HP calibers.

I'm not sure a 50yd zero will equal a 200yd zero.

I think a 50yd reduced target should have about a 3" diameter black bull.
 
Reduced targets just provide the challenge of shooting something further away by making the scoring harder. Your zero won't be the same unless you happen to be hitting the sight line at 50 (upward arc) and then again at 200 (downward arc). Chances are you won't be.
 
Input Variables Firearm type Rifle Sight Height 1.5
Bullet Weight (grains) 68 Ballistic Coefficient .355
Muzzle Velocity (fps) 2700 Temperature 59
Barometric Pressure (hg) 29.53 Relative Humidity 78%
Zero Range (yards) 50 Wind Speed (mph) 0



Ballistics Table in Yards 68 gr., .355 B.C. www.hornady.com

Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 2700 2574 2452 2217 1995 1787 1596
Energy (ft.-lb.) 1101 1000 908 742 601 482 385
Trajectory (50 yd. zero) -1.5 0.0 0.2 -3.9 -15.1 -35.1 -66.0
Come Up in MOA -1.5 0.0 -0.2 1.9 4.8 8.4 12.6




The following table is provided as a "cheat sheet" that you can tape to your gun.
Ballistics Table in Yards 68 gr., .355 B.C. www.hornady.com

Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Trajectory (50 yd. zero) -1.5 0.0 0.2 -3.9 -15.1 -35.1 -66.0
Come Up in MOA -1.5 0.0 -0.2 1.9 4.8 8.4 12.6



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So do these calculators come close ? In a nut shell If you do not have access to a 200yard plus range before you get to a match for your fisrt time
how do you get close.
I used some M1/M14 palma match M72 ammo 50 yard sight in targets on my Garand. It basically was a 2'ish tall target that had a scale on it. You would zero your sights. Then you would adjust your elevation to see if it was hitting on the apropriate mark on the target
heres the target Im talking about. I wish I held on to them as I have another garand to set up. I understand MOA Im use to my garand with the 1MOA adjustment I now have 1/4 moa sights so 4 clicks is 1MOA now instead of the 1 click I am used to with my Garand http://www.nationaltarget.com/cgi-b..._Code=ST-1++(priced+per+25)&Category_Code=SST
 
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Correct way zero your AR Service Rifle for NRA/CMP Competition

Forget all the IBZ military stuff. This is KD competition shooting and you should zero for the range you are shooting at, with the ammunition you are using for that range.

To establish an initial zero, you put your rifle rear sight to mechanical zero - set your rear windage to zero wind and bottom the rear elevation out. Leave the front sight alone.

Rear windage:

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Rear elevation - all the way down to the bottom till it wont go lower:

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Come up one click on the rear sight to get rid of that bottom click which may be false and then come up a minute or two. It does not really matter how many, just that you are off the bottom. I use one minute, but you can use something different. This is to make sure that you have some adjustment in case you are shooting a little different ammunition, or maybe shooting a reduced course match at 100 yards.

Don't put any marks on it yet. Wait until you actually zero the rifle.

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Go to the range. It's best if you can do this at 200 yards, as that is where you start the first stage of a HP match. If you don't have access to a 200 yard range, you can do this at just about any range if you know how to use a ballistics program and you have some basic data. However 50 yards is a good place to start. If you are shooting typical short range AR ammo, 50 yards will put you in the center at 200 yards. What is typical? A 69 or 77 grain Sierra bullet or equivalent from Hornady, Nosler, Laupa or Berger. 2900 fps for the 69s and 2750 for the 77s.

At 50 yards, you are going to be within a 1/2 inch of the center of the target with either 69s or 77, and at 200 yards that is zeroed.

arzeroingfor200yards.jpg


You can get a scaled 200 Yard SR Target for 50 yards from Ray-Vin. Print it on buff/tan colored paper to avoid white paper glare when you shoot at your target.

Figure out what sight picture you are going to shoot. What ever you do here, is what you are going to do at full 200 yards. Center of Mass, Line of White or 6 O'clock does not matter, as long as you do the same on the full distance. Shoot a couple of shots in a group and then make all your adjustments on the front sight to zero. Remember that elevation and windage directions are the opposite on the front sight. Elevation increments for the front sight is 1.25 minutes per notch which translates to ~.625 inches at 50 yards.

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Use one of these for the elevation.

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Do the elevation first. If you have a windage adjustable front sight base, do that now. If not, you need to adjust your windage on the rear sight. It's no big deal if you don't. The main benefit of a windage adjustable front is that you will have the maximum about adjustment available on your rear sight. Around here that may not be a big deal, but if you are shooting out west, where it blows like crazy then that can be a good thing.

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If you're close, but not quite zeroed, you can use the rear sight to cleanup your zero. The movements are much finer than the front sight and sometimes I just get in the ball park on the fronts, and then use the rear to make it perfect.

Now you mark your sights with a line. I use there Sharpie paint pens, but nail polish works well too. Pick one color. I like Red for my 200 yard zero.

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From my 200 yard zero I come up three minutes and I put another line. This time orange. This is going to be for the 300 yard line. Ideally you should go and zero at 300 yards, but it's not really necessary. When you do actually shoot at 300 yards, make a note of where you were in relation to your mark. Maybe something like 1/2 minute down from orange mark. This will be your actual zero. If it's exactly on the line then you win a booby-prize. I find that my zeros from day to day wander around within a click or two.

dscn0246i.jpg


From my 300 yard orange mark, I come up 9 minutes and then draw another line. This time it's yellow. This is my 600 yard reference line. I've actually changed ammo though, and am shooting some kind of 80gr bullet. I don't shoot the 77s across the course. Again, I only use this as a reference for my zero. My real 600 yard zero might be 1 minute up from yellow mark.

dscn0249t.jpg



The reason I do this is that it's too easy to lose track of clicks. If you are counting clicks, you are going to step on it big time at some point. It's much easier to go to a rough reference line and then make a fine adjustment. If you are solid on your zeros, you can adjust the paint lines where the zero actually is. That is the ideal way, but as I said, my service rifle zeros move around a little from one match to the next.

B
 
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So you have a military style indexable rear sight

If you have a two piece indexable rear sight like this, you just have to do things slightly different.

This is an old Turner 1/2 x 1/2 rear sight. It was one of the first high quality rear sights. I think I got this in 1994.

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The rear sight is made like this. There is a small set screw that can be accessed from the top of the sight in front of the apperture, when it is aligned with a small hole in the base.

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I set this rear sight up, so that the 8/3 is my 300 yard zero, and my index point. It's indexed so I have about five minutes below this mark. My 200 yard zero is three minutes down from the 8/3, and I put a orange mark.

dscn0255kb.jpg


The 600 yard zero is 10 minutes up from the 8/3 index on this particular gun. I'm not sure why it's a little different on this gun, but it does not really matter as long as it's a zero. This particular gun does have my marks right at the zeros though. I still go through all the stuff with the front sight, but this is slightly different because of the two piece rear sight.

B
 
Using a Ballistics Program for Modeling Traj. and Obtaining approximate zeros

I use ballistics programs a lot. Not for making super long range shots, but for getting a dead nutz long range zeros at short range. I live at least an hour from a full distance range and only ten minutes from my local club where I can shoot at 50 yards.

For example, say you have a 80 grain load and you want to shoot it in the match next weekend but you only have your 50 yard range that you can get to after work. A ballistic program can tell you how high your rifle should be zeroed at 50 yards to put you right into the X ring at 600 yards. The old M1 Long Range zeroing target that was mentioned earlier is the same concept.

You need the velocity. That is a biggie, but you can also estimate it. Most peoples non nuclear loads are probably shooting 80gr Sierras at 2750 fps. Put in all the information into the ballistics program, get the BC from the manufacturers webpage, and the tell the program you want the output in 50 yard increments, with a 600 yard zero. Make sure to put the proper sight height above the bore. On an M16A2 I use 2.6 inches. It's a little shorter on an M16A4. This really is important and can make a difference on those longer ranges.

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Run the simulation and you will get an output like this. It's telling me that at 50 yards, I should be 6.9 inches high with those parameters.

80sierra2750fps.jpg


Use one of the Ray-Vin MR1 600 yard targets reduced for 50 yards, and put it at 50 yards. Use the same sight picture you always would. When it tells you that you should be 6.9 inches high, you need to measure from the center of the target up 6.9 inches and hold the same sight picture you always would.

B
 
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