You are a high-value target

[MST_2009]

Interesting vid: http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-p...ty-video-you-are-a-high-value-target_08262011

This was a good followup read: http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-p...the-shtf-and-your-counter-strategies_04212011

 

[inerlogic]

damn, that video laid out my entire strategy :/

 

[RATTLESNAKE]

Nice post..very interesting and also very eye opening.

 

[Jose]

The key is to ratchet up your brutality to Vlad The Impaler levels right off the get go.

Your lawn should be red.

 

[Prepper]

Maybe, but then they'll know you have stuff that is suitable for making the lawn "red". They might want to try to take that anyway.

I suspect the SHTF situation would not exist for all that long though, not long enough to do things like going through one or more gardening seasons, etc., so there wouldn't be much time worry about the scenario of gangs going on missions against preppers. If something happened that caused even the gov't to basically disappear, leaving people to their own indefinitely, enemy countries would take advantage of that opportunity. I would expect the enemies to wait a little while for the die off to happen (to reduce how much work they have to do), then they'd start shipping in millions of their own troops and other people to claim the land. Chinese, Mexicans, UN troops, Russians are all possibilities. The troops would kill off anyone who managed to survive the die off. After all, anyone who can survive the apocalypse would probably also be the type that would not appreciate an oppressive new regime taking over. So, the survivors would have a problem even more formidable than mere gangs.

I'm guessing it may be 3 months before the foreign troops start coming in. I could be way off on the timing, but I'm confident it would happen. No way would the enemies pass up the opportunity, just allowing the survivors to merrily farm their lands and rebuild new communities unhindered. If they encountered fierce resistance from the locals in rural areas, they'd probably capture coastal cities first, and steadily work their way outward from there.

 

[Jose]

Prepper, at some point you have to decide whether you are going to fade into the background or cowboy up and get busy killing those that need killing.

I think I know which way you're gonna blow.

 

[Prepper]

You don't know nothing, Jose.

Anyone planning on killing the bad guys (which will most certainly be "illegal" for what that's worth) would hopefully not be dumb enough to admit to it on a public forum after signing up to that forum's membership with a Paypal account verified to belong to him. The keyboard commando shooting off his mouth about how bad ass he is will usually be the first to run away and hide like a little baby at the first sign of trouble. Let's see.... I vaguely recall there's a guy on this forum who's known for doing that. Hmm.... what's his name again? Let me go look through the recent posts here... I saw it recently....

 

[Jose]

Yea Prepper you got me pegged.

Whatever go back to your basement and prep some more.

 

[Another_David]

Lol, I stopped watching when they showed the still from the Warriors movie.

Message is real though: the two legged animals are most dangerous in packs. Join one or perish in a long term shtf.

 

[In God We Trust]

I have given this some thought and I don't think there is really anything you can do to defend against a smart, well armed and determined attacker.

They can probably wait you out if you have no support and the means to communicate with them. Unless you hunker down in your house, you can be sniped off when you finally have to leave the house. I guess it would defeat the purpose of the attack, but they could just lob a couple molotovs and burn you out.

If they were dumb enough to try charging through the front door, that would be easy enough to repel, but if it became a siege situation, I think you would lose eventually.

 

[radioman]

I have given this some thought and I don't think there is really anything you can do to defend against a smart, well armed and determined attacker.

They can probably wait you out if you have no support and the means to communicate with them. Unless you hunker down in your house, you can be sniped off when you finally have to leave the house. I guess it would defeat the purpose of the attack, but they could just lob a couple molotovs and burn you out.

If they were dumb enough to try charging through the front door, that would be easy enough to repel, but if it became a siege situation, I think you would lose eventually.

Your right but you still have to try.

If I'm going to fail, I'm going to fail loud and messy.

 

[Rancho]

interesting stuff adds a little more to the mix. I can definitely say I will be far away from the burbs if shit really get's bad and in a place where the community works together for the most part but over time even that sort of community can erode.. ..

 

[cockpitbob]

Just remember, no battle plan survives the 5 minutes of contact with the enemy. We can sit in our comfortable, safe homes and plan and prep, but within 2 days of SHTF we'll be doing something we didn't expect.

 

[Rancho]

totally agree!! that's why the property is booby trapped and under surveillance. I've got dead deer all over the place! I knew I should have disconnected those tripwires before I left...

Just kidding, but I do agree, even in the lightest of disasters we may be doing things we didn't expect to do..

 

[cockpitbob]

totally agree!! that's why the property is booby trapped and under surveillance. I've got dead deer all over the place! I knew I should have disconnected those tripwires before I left...

Just kidding, but I do agree, even in the lightest of disasters we may be doing things we didn't expect to do..

Keep the deer. After skinning the rib cages and long bones can easly be mistaken for human. Use them to get the Vlad the Impailer effect Jose mentioned

 

[Rider]

It is interesting and provides food for thought. I don't think that my skepticism is based on denial, but rather the thinking that for a group like that to survive, and even thrive, would presume a number of things both endogenous to the group, and exogenous in the form of there being no social cohesion anywhere.

The group would have to be tactically trained, stone killers, whose goal is not merely survival, but rather the wanton destruction of any and all viable communities. As they say in the video, they spread like locusts, but locusts don't resupply, have vast numbers, and rely on an endlessly refreshed food source. These guys would be destroying both the supply chain and the food source at every stop. Any casualties or internal conflict could be operationally fatal to the group, further limiting their longevity.

For their victims, I agree that there wouldn't be much that could be done in many cases, as the scenario is decidedly asymmetric given the defenders don't know anyone is coming. But there would also have to be none of the social networks that these guys rely on for information on the next kill. Eventually either they run into a group of locals who shred them on sight, or go after them when they see a local farm burning. At some point, they run out of gas or ammo, and they die. If there are enough people close enough together(8 hits in 6 months) someone will wise up and organize to take them out. If not, they starve eventually. Or they meet another group like themselves and take heavy casualties.

The takeaway seems to be that there is nothing you can do to defend against this group as the problem is defined, so there is no reason to bother trying. It's designed as a Kobayashi Maru problem, a no-win situation where the aggressors know everything you might do and have a response for it, along with gear for that response(propane tanks and insecticide).

It isn't that I don't think groups like that would exist, it's that I don't think they would last that long, though you would hope they didn't pass by.

The only real defense would be complete isolation and never leaving the bunker, which as another poster said, isn't practical for long term survival, since eventually you need to tend animals, grow crops, and hunt.

 

[Rancho]

Keep the deer. After skinning the rib cages and long bones can easly be mistaken for human. Use them to get the Vlad the Impailer effect Jose mentioned

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAH!! I can see it now my front yard filled with spikes covered with impaled skulls of rabbits and other critters!!

 

[BenDover]

I think that this video fails to consider how dangerous it will be for groups like this to move around. Once the grapevine begins churning out horror stories, those who try the locust thing will suffer serious losses from other "locusts" and bands of defenders who will be shooting on sight rather than talking. I think the locusts would be better off providing security services in exchange for food/shelter.

If someone is determined enough, they're gonna take your stuff no matter what you do.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

I think that this video fails to consider how dangerous it will be for groups like this to move around. Once the grapevine begins churning out horror stories, those who try the locust thing will suffer serious losses from other "locusts" and bands of defenders who will be shooting on sight rather than talking. I think the locusts would be better off providing security services in exchange for food/shelter.

If someone is determined enough, they're gonna take your stuff no matter what you do.

Or, more likely they'll die trying.

 

[cockpitbob]

I think that this video fails to consider how dangerous it will be for groups like this to move around. Once the grapevine begins churning out horror stories, ...

One reason I have my ham radio license. When everything but my home generator or car's alternator have stopped working I'll still be talking.

 

[Prepper]

It certainly is a difficult problem to ponder. The lone individual in a house trying to avoid being a victim of such a gang doesn't stand much of a chance once identified as a target; there's some value in laying low to avoid being the target for as long as possible, but yeah you gotta come out to farm, hunt and other things eventually. Being ridiculously remote (10's of miles from anyone else) is another possibility but few people are going to be in that situation. Only a well organized community is going to be able to stand a chance against something like this. A sizable number of the people would need to take turns with security details. And even that will be tricky since you really need to watch all sides of a neighborhood to prevent the gang from sneaking in the back, or causing a diversion at one place to draw the security over to there, while they go in another way. It really isn't difficult to ponder ways to breach security of a neighborhood if you're patient and watch them to see their routine.

I would expect the gangs would still sustain casualties, even if they were otherwise the winners in a battle. So, I don't know how long such a gang would last or if they would have the ability to find replacements. If these gangs can be identified in advance and taken out with a coordinated effort by the good guys, that would be a big plus. Sitting back and waiting to defend when they show up sounds like a really bad move... gotta be proactive.

 

[josh2600]

Maybe, but then they'll know you have stuff that is suitable for making the lawn "red". They might want to try to take that anyway.

I suspect the SHTF situation would not exist for all that long though, not long enough to do things like going through one or more gardening seasons, etc., so there wouldn't be much time worry about the scenario of gangs going on missions against preppers. If something happened that caused even the gov't to basically disappear, leaving people to their own indefinitely, enemy countries would take advantage of that opportunity. I would expect the enemies to wait a little while for the die off to happen (to reduce how much work they have to do), then they'd start shipping in millions of their own troops and other people to claim the land. Chinese, Mexicans, UN troops, Russians are all possibilities. The troops would kill off anyone who managed to survive the die off. After all, anyone who can survive the apocalypse would probably also be the type that would not appreciate an oppressive new regime taking over. So, the survivors would have a problem even more formidable than mere gangs.

I'm guessing it may be 3 months before the foreign troops start coming in. I could be way off on the timing, but I'm confident it would happen. No way would the enemies pass up the opportunity, just allowing the survivors to merrily farm their lands and rebuild new communities unhindered. If they encountered fierce resistance from the locals in rural areas, they'd probably capture coastal cities first, and steadily work their way outward from there.

I see you've played homefront too.

 

[Prepper]

I see you've played homefront too.

I assume that's a video game that I have not heard of. Defender was the last game I have ever played, not counting those Commodore 128 games (Apache Gunship was my favorite). Nah, I just read too much Internet.

 

[Lip]

I have given this some thought and I don't think there is really anything you can do to defend against a smart, well armed and determined attacker.

They can probably wait you out if you have no support and the means to communicate with them. Unless you hunker down in your house, you can be sniped off when you finally have to leave the house. I guess it would defeat the purpose of the attack, but they could just lob a couple molotovs and burn you out.

If they were dumb enough to try charging through the front door, that would be easy enough to repel, but if it became a siege situation, I think you would lose eventually.

Think creatively, I can show you how to make phosgene quick and cheap.

 

[Gonzo]

the two legged animals are most dangerous in packs. Join one or perish in a long term shtf.

This has been the lesson of the last 10,000 years.

 

[Gonzo]

One reason I have my ham radio license. When everything but my home generator or car's alternator have stopped working I'll still be talking.

Talking to whom?

 

[GunPowder]

I was browsing through that site and found this.
http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-preparedness/terrorism-update-fbi-targets-preppers-and-preparedness-supplies-in-latest-bulletin_08112011

Im guessing this isnt just Colorado.

 

[swik]

ha! Very funny. Since we are nearly everyone's main trading or foreign aid partner, if the US goes under, so does everyone else. ENOUGHof our sailors are in nuke subs, or otherwise long term protected, that NO other country is going to do diddly to the US. JUST ONE of our nuke missile subs has more firepower than Britain or France's ENTIRE nuke arsenal. did you know that?

 

[swik]

All above ground buildings will be searched by the desperate. Shooting at them just CONFIRMS the fact that you have something worth fighting for. A far more sensible plan is to have a concealed dugout nearby, with buried gear and food, a water source, and just wait it out. Houses burn too easily, don't stop bullets, and are otherwise vulnerable. For one thing, Waco and Ruby Ridge actually HAPPENED, people, dont think that BigBro AINT your enemy, cause he is. So your home, or any place you are known to frequent, must be considered to be a place you don't want to stay, or have your goodies stashed at. If you get into it with a gang, or cops (same thing) or a union beef, etc, your home is the last place you want to be, for quite a while, in fact.

 

[cockpitbob]

Talking to whom?

Other hams for starters. There are over 100 here on NES alone. Many hams got into it partly for emergency prepardness and volunteer during emergencies. Also, once into radio you usually find yourself equiped with radios that cover CB, FRS and other bands. It doesn't solve all the problems, but it beats being totally blind.