Would this have been a justafiable situation?

ASHDUMP said:
J.A.M Factor

Jeopardy. Ability. Means.

This is what I was taught. You have to process all three of these before you shoot someone. Is your life in Jeopardy? Does this person have the ability to kill you? Does this person have the means to commit the act?

In this case the victims life was in jeopardy, the criminal was not disabled or in a wheelchair (ability) and he had a knife (means).

Shoot the M effer.
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Add preclusion too, for non-LEOs.
 
Timber said:
depends on where you live, i guess. shoot a 16 year old kid with knife behind the iron curtain that is MA, and you might be looking at time depending on how the LEO's, media decided to paint it.

in a free state, show up naked with a tube of lube in your hand claiming you're going to assault me, and i'll probably not even be arrested after ventilating you. [wink]

(or we might just have a grunt grunt man party.)
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In my state "he needed killing" is still an acceptable reason in court proceedings.
 
dagwag77 said:
A life (yours or BG's) isn't worth a wallet.
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To me it's not about the wallet, it's about the knife. If I am armed and someone threatens my life at close range with a knife, I don't really care WHAT they are asking for, my response will be the same. By threatening a stranger with a lethal weapon, the BG has already made his choice about what life is worth.
 
KMaurer said:
If you're faced with what might or might not be a good shoot and you take the time to consider the legalities, there are two possibilities.
  1. It really wouldn't be a good shoot, and my advice is correct;
  2. It really would have been be a good shoot, but it's too late; you're dead because you took the time to mull over the legalities.

Ken
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While agree with you there, look at the very first sentence of the post that I referenced to. My point still stands.
 
Having spent a few years in former life caring for people that found themselves on the wrong end of knife, I would immediately use deadly force as soon as I saw the weapon. Knives need to be respected as a clear cut deadly threat.

In terms of giving the guy your wallet and begging him not to cut your balls off, I can't even related to that kind of thinking.
 
Knives are no doubt deadly weapons, but remember each critical incident is unique. How and if you respond is always a matter of the tactics of the situation at hand, not a blanket "I will or won't do something."
 
law dawg said:
Knives are no doubt deadly weapons, but remember each critical incident is unique. How and if you respond is always a matter of the tactics of the situation at hand, not a blanket "I will or won't do something."
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I can clearly articulate to my attorney, and in court if need be, why I respond with deadly force to any verbal or non-verbal threat backed up with an edged weapon inside of 30 feet.

Not only that, I have documented evidence of training for that exact situation and a trainer that will testify to that effect.
 
We all know the saying..."Don't ever bring a knife to a gun fight".

I would have dropped him no question. I'm also pretty sure that the sight of the gun would have prevented the gun owner from having to squeeze the trigger but you never know.

If I'm taking it out I plan on using it unless you turn and beat feet.
 
Justified or legally justified? It probably wouldn't be legally justified because he didn't do everything possible to get out of the situation without shooting. If he thought that giving up his wallet would make the guy leave, then he could have done that. Of course he could also say that he thought that the guy was going to stab him even if he gave it up, and there's your legal justification.
 
Jose said:
I can clearly articulate to my attorney, and in court if need be, why I respond with deadly force to any verbal or non-verbal threat backed up with an edged weapon inside of 30 feet.

Not only that, I have documented evidence of training for that exact situation and a trainer that will testify to that effect.
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Missing my point. Sometimes its better to comply with demands if they have the tactical advantage and wait for a better time to deploy (when they're retreating, say). Never let your dick make tactical decisions for you. You go when you *must* or when you have the advantage, not before.

To blithely say "well what I'd do is....." really makes a complicated situation look pithy and easy, which does people a disservice.
 
AOJ!

Ability: The perpetrator has the power to kill or to injure you.

Opportunity: The circumstances are such that the perpetrator would be able to make use of violence against you.

Jeopardy: The perpetrator's actions provide you with a reasonably-perceived belief that he intends to kill you or injure you.

---

Sounds like all three conditions are met: The perpetrator has a knife (ability), and approaches you (opportunity) and says "Fork over the wallet or you're going to get the business-end of this knife (jeopardy)!"
 
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law dawg said:
Missing my point. Sometimes its better to comply with demands if they have the tactical advantage and wait for a better time to deploy (when they're retreating, say). Never let your dick make tactical decisions for you. You go when you *must* or when you have the advantage, not before.

To blithely say "well what I'd do is....." really makes a complicated situation look pithy and easy, which does people a disservice.
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+1. Hypotheticals are all well and good, but thats all they are. Theres no "right" answer and everything depends on situation and everyone interprets/reads into facts differently.

Also, theres no point in being an internet tough guy and posting stuff on here "oh i'd drop 'em". Its situational. Either way, if you ever did end up in a SHTF situation, you know your internet tough guy posts will show up if the prosecutor is any good and you become a hammer looking for a nail. You take any of these posts "out of context" and with a little courtroom spin....
 
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Did anyone give thought to thiese poor boys who came from a disadvantage background....me neither.
 
I would say draw your weapon and if he kept coming towards you its good old self defense you gave more than enough warning. Or you could be like the guy in south park and shout out "he's coming right for us!" and light him up.
 
A question that might arise is "The bad guy saw the gun and what did he do?" A man with a knife is no match for a man with a gun, I would expect the man with the knife to turn and run when a gun is presented. I think that's a fair assessment. If the sight of the gun scared him off, great. If not and you had to use your gun I think it would take some explaining to do. Still you would be alive!
 
Has no one here heard of the Tueller Drill? Lots of posts about guns beat knives and "bang, bang" but I don't see anyone talking about how to go about that. Give me a knife and sufficient distance and I own 99% of gun slingers out there. I do it every month in Simunitions. A real eye opener.......
 
law dawg said:
Has no one here heard of the Tueller Drill? Lots of posts about guns beat knives and "bang, bang" but I don't see anyone talking about how to go about that. Give me a knife and sufficient distance and I own 99% of gun slingers out there. I do it every month in Simunitions. A real eye opener.......
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IF you are actually ready to use the knife, IF you know what you're doing, IF you manage to do more than cut the Hell out of me, etc. Tueller is a useful demonstration of time, but with a knife there are a ****-ton of variables that are unknowable. On the other hand, if the perp has a gun I'll give him my wallet, car keys, directions to the security system and anything else he wants. Pulling a trigger at 5 feet barely even takes will.

No one knows how they'll react to a situation until they are in it. For me I've already decided that unless I'm at a distinct tactical advantage I'll give up the wallet. It's safer for me. Once I've given the wallet and the BG starts to go away THEN I can draw my weapon and follow him as I'm dialing 911. Or, maybe I'd just be so shaken up I'd let him go and try not to pee myself. Having not been in that exact situation I don't know what I'd do.
 

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