Why the U.S. doesn't do so good at Olympic shooting events

calsdad

calsdad

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As usual - it boils down to politics:
http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/b91e1e7e6db256349d93093093b7b034-417.html

Back to the story...at the end of that week, enthusiasm was high. The participants, both the recruits and their Olympic team hosts, were excited at the prospect of a shooting "dream team". The experiment had been a success, and it seemed as though nothing was standing between them and multiple medals in the Rapid Fire event.

Nothing, that was, except USA Shooting.

As the week was winding down, the Executive Director of USA Shooting stepped up to the podium and declared that the "new shooters" weren't of Olympic caliber. He said that these people - who between them had won a dizzying number of national and international titles - "lacked focus and discipline." No one would be able to get on our Olympic shooting team, the Director continued, unless they came up through the USA Shooting farm system.

According to my source, the speech went downhill from there. No "outsiders" were going to be allowed on "his" team, no matter how good they might be. And these guys were very good.

That, folks, is why we again failed to medal in the Rapid Fire event this year. And every other year. And in many other Olympic shooting events, as well.

The country most steeped in firearms use, the home of the "gun culture", isn't able to field a whole team of shooters that can truly take on the rest of the world. Not because of a lack of talent - because of an entrenched bureaucracy that steadfastly refuses to believe that anyone not in their clique could possibly be any good.

As it happens, last week - flush with Olympic enthusiasm - I had actually decided to write a check to USA Shooting for the support of our team. That is, until I learned what you just learned. I didn't send that check, and I'm not going to.

When USA Shooting drops their nose-in-the-air exclusivity, I'll give them money. Not before. I hope you'll join me by telling them the same thing.

If enough of us do that, maybe they'll get the message that we expect our shooting team to represent the United States, not the local country club. When that happens, perhaps we'll start cleaning up in Olympic shooting.

Just as we should.
Click to expand...
 
Smells like BS. The people that are sent are the winner and second place finisher of the US Olympic Trials in their discipline.

Here is the list of 2008 Olympians. Here is a link to the 2008 Olympic Trials. Feel free to compare.

I do believe that you have to earn an invitation to the Olympic Trials by finishing with a qualifying score at a Preliminary Tryout, but those are open events. There is simply not enough space to host everyone that would show up if the Olympic Trials was open. Sounds like someone wants to subvert the system by spreading FUD. [hmmm]

B
 
I saw a reference to this blog on another gun related forum - and when I read the article I didn't see the comments. From the comments it sure looks like the article is off base.

His original premise though is interesting - why doesn't the US do better in firearm related events - especially against many countries that are very anti gun?
 
calsdad said:
why doesn't the US do better in firearm related events - especially against many countries that are very anti gun?
Click to expand...
Because in most other countries participation in formal target shooting is one of the few, if not the only way, for anyone interested in firearms to get permission to own and use one.

We don't have that problem. We can do whatever we want, and we need no reason or permission to own and use firearms. In any case, time is better spent learning martial uses of firearms.
 
He sounds pretty uninformed. Most countries are not anti gun. The planet is awash in guns. Most countries are anti having a gun for self protection. Big difference. In those so called anti gun countries there are plenty of guns if you participate in a very narrow swath of approved activities like ISSF competition. If you want to win an Olympic medal that is ok. Want to shoot thugs that attack you and your family, woops that's not on the approved list.

In the US there are options. You can have guns to shoot bad guys and that is what most people think of guns are used for. In other countries there are no options. The other issue is that competitive shooting in the US is dominated by US events, not international. We like our service rifles and our .45s. [smile]

I wont go down the road about US events being easier, because they are very different. However the international events tend to be a real bitch to do well at. The targets are very unforgiving and people don't want to participate.

B

EDIT:> FUNNY! We posted just about the same thing.
 
I think that's a lot of it too - the international type events are different than what we do here. We have the talent - one time at Camp Perry or the National Skeet matches they used to hold at Vadalia will show you that. Problem is that there isn't a service rifle match at the Olympics. These people that are the top have to adjust their game to the rest of the world and that can be very frustrating and expensive/ time consuming. You would have to take that person out of their life, put them in a training environment, and work the heck out of them on the government's dime to get to where some of the top international people are. I don't think that a lot of people would go for that here. Of course if I was younger now and that was offered, the only thing that comes to mind is a line from Disney's Oliver and Company : " If this is torture, chain me to the wall!"

Joe R.
 
Not totally true.

The US Olympic Biathlon team (winter, includes skiing) is totally different, and was (may still be) dominated by military members (and, yes, not all are military). Yes, I know a few of them. They train in VT, at EAFR (Jericho) among other places.

They didn't get there through USA Shooting.

I think there may be some "sour grapes" behind this.
 
bpm990d said:
He sounds pretty uninformed. Most countries are not anti gun.
Click to expand...

[rofl] That's funny stuff right there.

Offhand I can't even think of more than a dozen where legally owning a handgun, for example, even just for target shooting, is below being "severe pain in the ass" category. There's the US, Switzerland, 2-3 others in europe, Canada (terrible, but not as bad as some), Israel, Costa Rica, couple others in south america, maybe. The only others that aren't anti gun are places you need a gun to keep yourself from gettnig killed. (EG, there is no law or officials can be easily bribed, etc. Not exactly "fun" places to be. )

-Mike
 
I don't know, in some respects, Iraq (yes, IRAQ) is more lenient on gun ownership than the US right now.

They can keep an AK at home, for the most part. That would be a select fire AK. They probably don't even know some AK's are semi-auto only (mostly a US thing, so I hear).

Not saying Iraq is a real nice place, though. Safe either.
 
Nickle said:
I don't know, in some respects, Iraq (yes, IRAQ) is more lenient on gun ownership than the US right now.

They can keep an AK at home, for the most part. That would be a select fire AK. They probably don't even know some AK's are semi-auto only (mostly a US thing, so I hear).

Not saying Iraq is a real nice place, though. Safe either.
Click to expand...

Do Iraqis compete in the Olympics with a select-fire AK? Kool! [smile]
 
Referring to gun ownership in general.

Iraqi's in shooting competition?

They might win an RPG competition, but that's about it. They aren't known for marksmanship, that's for sure.
 
Nickle said:
The US Olympic Biathlon team (winter, includes skiing) is totally different, and was (may still be) dominated by military members (and, yes, not all are military).
Click to expand...

I recall reading a number of years ago that there were more biathalon coaches in the former USSR than there were biathalon competitors in the USA. I suspect a similar kind of disparity still exists for other international-type shooting events, and is at least some of the reason that the US doesn't place better. With regard to the original topic, I'd tend to believe what I read on the Target Talk forum - as a reasonably devoted Bullseye competitor, I spend a bit of time there and those guys really know their sh*t.
 
drgrant said:
[rofl] That's funny stuff right there.
Click to expand...

Hey, even N. Korea had a pretty good Air Pistol finish until he lost his Bronze because he failed his piss test. [rofl] I'd hate to know what will happen to him when he gets back home to bizaro world. Not getting an LTC-A ALP wont be the least of his problems. [laugh]

B
 
bpm990d said:
Hey, even N. Korea had a pretty good Air Pistol finish until he lost his Bronze because he failed his piss test. [rofl] I'd hate to know what will happen to him when he gets back home to bizaro world. Not getting an LTC-A ALP wont be the least of his problems. [laugh]

B
Click to expand...

Yeah, those guys are probably trained with a guy holding a rifle standing behind them. I bet that guy, if he's lucky, will be demoted to "poop farmer", assuming that they don't torture or kill him.

-Mike
 
Sorry, I have to correct this:

"Why the U.S. doesn't do so well at Olympic shooting events"

Growing up, I would get ripped a new one if I came home and said something like: "I didn't do so good on the English test."

Father: "No shit you didn't do so well!!!!

Not trying to be the new grammarian. This one just gets me.
 
There are a few reasons why the US is not at the top of the scores as much as the shooters from countries that most often do better.

One, is that in the USA our shooting sport games are diluted by alternative options to the International disciplines. We have all kinds of other shooting sports where the competition isn't as dispiriting when you lose. There are more games here that involve scenarios and role playing, which make them more appealing to the weekend shooter.
Precision shooting is doing the exact same thing for one shot as for the 60th shot.

Another is that it costs a lot of money to be able to compete internationally. there are the Pan Am games, the World championships and the Olympics. Other countries pay to send their shooters to matches all over the world. US shooters have to pay themselves, or have the US shooting team send them. Even then, the coach may not send them. A person I know on the US Shooting team came in the top five at the olympic trials. She said the coach had an extra spot already paid to go to an international match, but he wasn't going to send her. The way these elite shooters get over the match pressure of big international matches is by being there and shooting them. It does no good to not have them compete.
In the US, we have camp Perry every year. A shooter can stay in a tent if they need to.
There's no customs having your guns detained and rummaged through at every flight. Things like that make people want to stay here. You can get in your car and drive to Ohio and not have to get on a plane with your expensive, dialed-in gear.
International matches in the US are few and far between. You would be lucky to find more than one local sanctioned match a month within normal driving distance.

BPBrinson provided the Rapid Fire pistol scores of the top action shooters on TargetTalk. Posted here.
Bruce Piatt 551
Jerry Miculek 551
John Pride 518
Bruce Gray 502
Richard Young 449
Scores from G&A Handgun magazine: July 2002
Click to expand...

World class rapid fire scores are much closer to a perfect score of 600. These scores would still take a long time to come close to the best rapid shooters.
Changing shooting disciplines is not universal.

It's completely untrue that there is no way a shooter must go through the US Shooting team to make the Olympics, but they do have to be a member of that shooting organization to compete in any sanctioned matches.
 
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A lot of our best shooters were too busy to attend the Olympics this year......

Instead of putting holes in paper they were in Iraq and Afghanistan putting holes in terrorists.
 

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