Why does the IRS need Guns, WSJ

ica5726

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I don't buy into a lot of consipracy theory but.... Pay your taxes-an AR15 pointed at you. Mandatory Plant/Animal inspection- M1 armed with nightvision. I'm curious what the Education Department people are packing...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/end-the-100-bill-uncle-sam-says-no-1466155982

"The number of non-Defense Department federal officers authorized to make arrests and carry firearms (200,000) now exceeds the number of U.S. Marines (182,000). In its escalating arms and ammo stockpiling, this federal arms race is unlike anything in history. Over the last 20 years, the number of these federal officers with arrest-and-firearm authority has nearly tripled to over 200,000 today, from 74,500 in 1996."

"OpenTheBooks.com oversight
report on the militarization of America. The report catalogs federal purchases of guns, ammunition and military-style equipment by seemingly bureaucratic federal agencies. During a nine-year period through 2014, we found, 67 agencies unaffiliated with the Department of Defense spent $1.48 billion on guns and ammo. Of that total, $335.1 million was spent by agencies traditionally viewed as regulatory or administrative, such as the Smithsonian Institution and the U.S. Mint."

"• The Internal Revenue Service, which has 2,316 special agents, spent nearly $11 million on guns, ammunition and military-style equipment. That’s nearly $5,000 in gear for each agent.
• The Department of Veterans Affairs, which has 3,700 law-enforcement officers guarding and securing VA medical centers, spent $11.66 million. It spent more than $200,000 on night-vision equipment, $2.3 million for body armor, more than $2 million on guns, and $3.6 million for ammunition. The VA employed no officers with firearm authorization as recently as 1995.
• The Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service spent $4.77 million purchasing shotguns, .308 caliber rifles, night-vision goggles, propane cannons, liquid explosives, pyro supplies, buckshot, LP gas cannons, drones, remote-control helicopters, thermal cameras, military waterproof thermal infrared scopes and more.
• The Environmental Protection Agency spent $3.1 million on guns, ammunition and military-style equipment. The EPA has put nearly $800 million since 2005 into its “Criminal Enforcement Division.”
• The Food and Drug Administration employs 183 heavily armed “special agents.”
• The University of California, Berkeley acquired 14 5.56mm assault rifles and Yale University police accepted 20 5.56mm assault rifles from the Defense Department. Texas Southern University and Saddleback College police even acquired Mine Resistant Vehicles (MRVs).
Other paper-pushing federal agencies with firearm-and-arrest authority that have expanded their arsenals since 2006 include the Small Business Administration, Social Security Administration, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Education Department, Energy Department, Bureau of Engraving and Printing, National Institute of Standards and Technology and many others."


 

mac1911

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Well the GOV is not supposed to use OUR military against US so the created Homeland security . Would not surprise me one bit if IRS and Education department are under that umbrella to some point.
I'm curious to see how many non citizens work for any of these departments...
The problem now is how many of these people will follow orders that violate our constitution even more than they already do. Soon enough our local LEO will all be under 100% Federal thumb the .gov army gets even bigger.
Ohh the joy.

You also have to remember when .gov gives you money to spend on xyz well those groups needed it or not will spend that money on xyz.

My dad was a state worker he had a letter once from his department head to stop writing invoices for individual parts and charge for a case. He would show it to people who wondered why the state needs so much money.

My great uncle always said if the GOV ran as a business it would have gone out of business before they could unlock the doors.

Also it's the groups or departments we know,nothing about that are a larger concern.
 
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JJ4

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I read this yesterday. Good article. The whole government is becoming the domestic "standing army" that we were warned about.
 

mac1911

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I read this yesterday. Good article. The whole government is becoming the domestic "standing army" that we were warned about.
My great uncle was warning me of things to come many years ago. Starting with the UN and the Muslims. Although he did mention the Muslims and many others that where colonized by the French and English and disrupted countries after WWII really missed them off. Later he would mention our lack of "going to war" vs "military support " or "police actions"
My great uncle said WAR is the defending of your life and property against those who want to take it. Or if your trying to take it....anything else is a act of being mercenaries for the highest bidder.
 

new guy

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The .gov clearly sees the citizenry as its enemy. That we tolerate them assuming any sort of widespread aggressive/offensive posture toward us is both disgusting and depressing.
 
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Horrible

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I think they are scared of Americans.
Makes sense why they would be. The role of govt is to protect the rights of its citizens and at every single turn the Federal govt has been the one violating its citizens rights using the money taken from its citizenry by force!
 

beaker

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the IRS and FDA have sworn agents and they do criminal investigations and make arrests, so I actually get that, but only by a little bit. I have absolutely no idea why the Department of Education has any armed agents.

Here is why, Department of Education protecting and serving...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/education-department-swat-team-raids-california-home/2011/06/08/AGUxlKMH_blog.html


I am sure the Muslim Brotherhood political officers in these government agencies will make sure all this firepower will only be used for good.
 

Rob Boudrie

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The federal officer's gun, and the power to carry it, is in many cases (poultry cops, IRS, etc.) a symbolic emblem of power, even more than the badge or agency ID (which really serves to document their power, not as the source of their power). Take away the gun and they are no longer "above" the serfs who must often be unarmed in their presence.

It can also be a union thing. Get gun authority, you are now a "federal officer" rather than "federal employee", and can demand all LE pay, perks and benefits.
 
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the IRS and FDA have sworn agents and they do criminal investigations and make arrests, so I actually get that, but only by a little bit. I have absolutely no idea why the Department of Education has any armed agents.

Here is why, Department of Education protecting and serving...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/education-department-swat-team-raids-california-home/2011/06/08/AGUxlKMH_blog.html


I am sure the Muslim Brotherhood political officers in these government agencies will make sure all this firepower will only be used for good.
Department of Education has 1811's same as FBI/ATF/SS/name the agency. They go and arrest people too for fraud when it comes to school procurement scams and the such.

Why? Because the FBI is picky about what they will investigate. Agencies got tired of being turned down when they asked for the FBI to go arrest someone.

- - - Updated - - -

The federal officer's gun, and the power to carry it, is in many cases (poultry cops, IRS, etc.) a symbolic emblem of power, even more than the badge or agency ID (which really serves to document their power, not as the source of their power). Take away the gun and they are no longer "above" the serfs who must often be unarmed in their presence.

It can also be a union thing. Get gun authority, you are now a "federal officer" rather than "federal employee", and can demand all LE pay, perks and benefits.
Probably some truth to some of this, but the LEO pay scale joins the regular GS scale after GS10, so it's not really a LEO vs. Non-LEO argument pay wise.
 

ochmude

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The federal officer's gun, and the power to carry it, is in many cases (poultry cops, IRS, etc.) a symbolic emblem of power, even more than the badge or agency ID (which really serves to document their power, not as the source of their power). Take away the gun and they are no longer "above" the serfs who must often be unarmed in their presence.

It can also be a union thing. Get gun authority, you are now a "federal officer" rather than "federal employee", and can demand all LE pay, perks and benefits.
I don't think it's so much a union thing as it is whether or not any particular employee falls under 5 USC 8412(d).
 

Spanz

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I have no idea WHY they would need guns at the IRS, but expect a full tax audit coming your way for posting the question!
 

Spanz

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I think I've linked this before--the number of federal police agencies is amazing. The Hoover Dam police, the Smithsonian police, the US Mint police, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Federal_law_enforcement_agencies_of_the_United_States
Actually I was at the hover dam recently, and it IS a potential terrorist attack site. If you took out that dam, a couple of states would be out of electricity for years. During WWII, they actually stationed full time snipers up in the hills to kill any Nazis trying to breach the dam.
 

ochmude

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Rob Boudrie

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Actually I was at the hover dam recently, and it IS a potential terrorist attack site. If you took out that dam, a couple of states would be out of electricity for years. During WWII, they actually stationed full time snipers up in the hills to kill any Nazis trying to breach the dam.
You can see the bunker on the hill from the top of the dam.
In Federal parlance, the word "police" is frequently used to describe entities that would otherwise probably be referred to as "security".
The term "police" is generally used to refer to organizations/people that have special government granted powers - arrest; ability to file charges like assaulting a police officer; ability to carry on the badge and in places where even licensed civilians(*) cannot and, in the case of federal officers, carry on commercial airlines.

As far as I know, the feds do not use the term "police" to refer to the low level security types they hire, but do not give any traditional "police powers" to.

Usually, this means govt employees, however, there are private police forces given full police powers by the state (College police; RR police)


* - I am using Webster's definition of civilian; not the "all non-military" definition some on NES feels overrides the dictionary definition.
 
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ochmude

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True, federal police agencies do have powers of arrest and so forth. I guess what I mean is that many federal agencies which are named Something Police, such as the ones Obie1 mentioned (Mint Police, Smithsonian Police, Hoover Dam Police), are primarily focused on fixed-site security much like a private/commercial security guard or military sentry. They walk perimeters, monitor cameras and alarms, control access to secure areas, man booths at parking lots, and other such duties that one typically thinks of as being "security" duties rather than "police" duties. If you compared the daily activities of a U.S. Mint Police officer with a Smith & Wesson security guard, I'm sure you'd find them to be extremely similar.

This is not to say that all federal police agencies are like that. BIA Police are very much akin to a county sheriff's office (not including New England), and U.S. Park Police have various duties which often are identical to a municipal department or highway patrol.
 

Rob Boudrie

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If you compared the daily activities of a U.S. Mint Police officer with a Smith & Wesson security guard, I'm sure you'd find them to be extremely similar.
True, but the S&W Security guard cannot flash his credential to carry through the metal detector in a federal building, or carry with impunity in NYC and NJ, nor will the S&W security guard be treated as a "LE professional" and assumed to be in the right if (s)he pops a cap in someone when off duty.

I was referring to the status afforded their position; not their day to day duties.
 
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