who to use for reference

[slap shot]

I’ve found Little and Brown to be great references, especially for non fiction.

 

[Mountain]

Or don't put any down and prepare for a possible fight. Remember this.
There is no references requirement in the law. So all they could do is deny on suitability (for refusing to provide references), not likely to survive the risk to public safety that is in the law, but if it does, it's not going to survive in in a higher court especially with Bruen.

The reality is it won't go to the circuit court, it will get corrected before that so they don't set a precedent on these extra requirements that will carry throughout the state and then some.

Of course you'll be on the hook for the cost of doing this.

Remember IANAL so if I;m wrong all you'll get from me is an apology.

I will say this. If the OP did this, and got denied for it (no other surprises), and it can be brought to a court that can set some kind of precedent that will put an end to the local add on requirements, I will donate to that legal action. And I'm not even a MA resident any longer.

I realize the process varies by location, but in my town I have never heard of them following up on references for the usual applicants. Unless you are some sort of PP the process is a no-brainer and basically shoot the shit time while the officer works through the state paperwork (online). Make a 'thing' about leaving references blank and challenging the PD on this just makes you look like a dick in 'green' towns.

One could argue that the only necessary paperwork to own and carry is a birth certificate and the constitution, but in commie states that won't get you the proper credentials for every time you are asked "Papers, please!" when buying guns and ammo. Agreed it would be ideal to dump all the local / state add-on requirements.

 

[rogersmithiii]

I included two out-of-state references (I moved here from out of state) and they did not contact either. Both were friends, one a police detective, the other a psychiatrist. I was kind of disappointed they didn't call them, lol.

I'd use Hunter Biden. He knows guns!!

 

[nstassel]

I have never heard of anyone's references being called.

 

[enbloc]

don't use ex-girlfriends...

 

[42!]

I realize the process varies by location, but in my town I have never heard of them following up on references for the usual applicants. Unless you are some sort of PP the process is a no-brainer and basically shoot the shit time while the officer works through the state paperwork (online). Make a 'thing' about leaving references blank and challenging the PD on this just makes you look like a dick in 'green' towns.

One could argue that the only necessary paperwork to own and carry is a birth certificate and the constitution, but in commie states that won't get you the proper credentials for every time you are asked "Papers, please!" when buying guns and ammo. Agreed it would be ideal to dump all the local / state add-on requirements.

I've always complied with the law with regard to the MA LTC, I may not agree with it but it is the law and I play their game. But the point is the extra legal requirements some towns add to what is required. This includes references and letters. The only purpose they serve is to provide the PD with additional information they can twist into a suitability denial. Because, again, they are NOT required by law.

I have never heard of anyone's references being called.

Why would they, the only thing the can use from a reference is to support a suitability denial, aned is a person really going to give a reference that would do that? That's why they are not in the actual law, they serve no purpose. But they were the first step to the extra legal requirements. Now it's those and letters. If we continue to comply they will eventually codify the requirement since "it already being done". Then they move to the next step, maybe you have to notify your landlord and provide that.

NH actually has a references requirement for the P&R. But it's kind of an ongoing joke since nothing they say can be used to deny, we don't even have suitability. Also, there is a deadline for issue, with teeth, so they get issued in 10 days. And your reference requirements are name and address, no phone or email. So even if the CoP wanted to contact them he would have to write a letter, and they have no requirement to respond. Neither of my references were contacted, but they wouldn't have responded anyway, and my P&R took 3 days 23 hours, apparently they had to get a new ribbon for the typewriter.

 

[P51MA]

So the app asks for 2 references.
I am wondering who to ask and or does it make any difference!?
Do they have to be local to the town I am applying in, or just in MA. Some of the people I have in mind that I know would give me a reference, I am not sure if they are or not gun owners.
I also have mixed feelings about telling people about a personal choice like that.

I turned 21 in a town that had unusual reference requirements, which caused me to not bother getting an ltc for a few years. They wanted it to be people I had known for 5+ years, and I’m pretty sure that town actually checks out the references (many/most don’t). In such a blue state, and an anti-gun family, I only ever had 1 person who I was comfortable asking at the time, because I didn’t want to tell people I was getting an LTC.

I would never ask someone at work, next thing you know everyone in the company knows I’m a gun guy, and HR is trying to catch me printing!

So I definitely get where you are coming from.

Ended up in a town that doesn’t even require references, out of sheer luck.

Unknown to me, my sister and her boyfriend applied for their LTC’s 3 weeks ago, totally on their own. They didn’t even know I had mine when they told me they were going to go for it! Never would have expected it. Have to check in and see if they picked them up yet.

Anyways, don’t overthink things. Just go to your local PD’s website, read the firearms licinsing section, and do whatever it says. Don’t overthink it, the PD isn’t going to bite you, it’s really routine business for them. They do like 1000 of these per year.

My sister said: “they didn’t even do an interview, they just fingerprinted me”, I told her “that literally is the interview.” Same for me when I did mine.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I have never heard of anyone's references being called.

When my friend applied in Woburn they called me and his other reference. It happens the other reference was working in the next room from me that afternoon. This was a few years ago. No idea if they still do, post-Bruen.

 

[tinhorn]

I listed a non-gun-owning sister-in-law from another town and a neighbor. No idea if they contacted either of them.

 

[CTR4011]

OP could always challenge them in court. But a guy who joins NES especially to ask a question because he's worried about following the rules correctly, I think, is not likely to be the guy who files the challenge.

We're not done with references. We're done with the CoP using those references to determine anything important. They remain a nuisance, but it really doesn't matter who OP uses.

NO I asked the question BECAUSE I wanted to follow the law and also get the most positive results. There are several people I can ask but honestly, I dont know for example if some won guns or not. While there are others whom I know have guns, but I would say they dont know me as well.
Also, to some degree I was wondering why I would be required to tell others, even ones I know well but are not immediate family that I am thinking about or wanting an LTC/gun. that's all

 

[CTR4011]

I turned 21 in a town that had unusual reference requirements, which caused me to not bother getting an ltc for a few years. They wanted it to be people I had known for 5+ years, and I’m pretty sure that town actually checks out the references (many/most don’t). In such a blue state, and an anti-gun family, I only ever had 1 person who I was comfortable asking at the time, because I didn’t want to tell people I was getting an LTC.

I would never ask someone at work, next thing you know everyone in the company knows I’m a gun guy, and HR is trying to catch me printing!

So I definitely get where you are coming from.

Ended up in a town that doesn’t even require references, out of sheer luck.

Unknown to me, my sister and her boyfriend applied for their LTC’s 3 weeks ago, totally on their own. They didn’t even know I had mine when they told me they were going to go for it! Never would have expected it. Have to check in and see if they picked them up yet.

Anyways, don’t overthink things. Just go to your local PD’s website, read the firearms licinsing section, and do whatever it says. Don’t overthink it, the PD isn’t going to bite you, it’s really routine business for them. They do like 1000 of these per year.

My sister said: “they didn’t even do an interview, they just fingerprinted me”, I told her “that literally is the interview.” Same for me when I did mine.

thanks for getting it, much in the same situation. BUt the 2 references are part of the state application on the bottom of the page.

 

[Picton]

NO I asked the question BECAUSE I wanted to follow the law and also get the most positive results. There are several people I can ask but honestly, I dont know for example if some won guns or not. While there are others whom I know have guns, but I would say they dont know me as well.
Also, to some degree I was wondering why I would be required to tell others, even ones I know well but are not immediate family that I am thinking about or wanting an LTC/gun. that's all

Yeah. I was in your situation once.

I just found a coworker who lived in my town and told him I needed a gun reference. He shrugged and said, "Sure." Sometimes, these things you think will be confrontations? Aren't.

In the end, I wrote the letter and he signed it. No biggie. And this was, at the time, a red town; it went fine.

 

[kerryman71]

I used a neighbor who I'm friends with, as well as a friend from work. Check your city or towns requirements. My city states no relatives and no police officers from that city.

 

[namedpipes]

In 40 years of ma ltc apps and renewals, I'm not sure they ever once checked references. They could have, but when I've asked, "nobody ever called"

Your mileage may vary.

 

[eddy1953]

So the app asks for 2 references.
I am wondering who to ask and or does it make any difference!?
Do they have to be local to the town I am applying in, or just in MA. Some of the people I have in mind that I know would give me a reference, I am not sure if they are or not gun owners.
I also have mixed feelings about telling people about a personal choice like that.

If you are a first-time applicant, you need to take a gun safety course taught by NRA certified instructors. Ask if you can use them as references. They taught you.

 

[rali]

If you are a first-time applicant, you need to take a gun safety course taught by NRA certified instructors. Ask if you can use them as references. They taught you.

This. In my case the trainer was a cop in a nearby town. Dunno if the LO even recognized the name. My other reference was the paterfamilias of the family that won a quarter of the town in the colonial land lottery. If the LO didn’t recognize that one he ought to have been canned.

 

[P51MA]

This. In my case the trainer was a cop in a nearby town. Dunno if the LO even recognized the name. My other reference was the paterfamilias of the family that won a quarter of the town in the colonial land lottery. If the LO didn’t recognize that one he ought to have been canned.

To OP - your reference can be literally anyone with an address. Don’t overthink it. Post Bruen it will not help you having some kind of VIP, and it rarely did before either.

 

[Baby Billy]

I thought we were done with references?

Do you still need references for renewal apps? And a sit down with the police chief?

My renewal app was sent back to me for not including references. Not sure if I will need the sit down or not.

 

[MisterHappy]

thanks for getting it, much in the same situation. BUt the 2 references are part of the state application on the bottom of the page.

OP: I get where you're coming from - it's a Brave New World, especially in the DPRM.

Yes, it's on the bottom of the page, but the requirement is not in any of the MGLs. People here (mostly) believe that there are too many laws, but the ones that are there should be followed by all.

Some history:

A while back, some cities were charging more than the state-set fees. When GOAL called them out on it, and complained to the Inspector General's office, GOAL was told, "Tell them to stop it." No penalty for the bad towns, or refunds made to those overcharged.

Mass General Laws state that a Mass HunterEd cert is acceptable for FID/LTC issuance; some towns don't accept them.

One of my kids became and NRA Instructor at 13. At 15, he went to get an FID app at the local PD. "You have to be 18," he was told.
"Unless you have parental permission," he replied. When he went to turn in the app., they tried to charge him $100, not the state-mandated $25. He'd brought a printout of the relevant MGLs. The PD 'checked on it' and charged the correct $25.

Oh, yeah, per state law, you're supposed to get your license within 40 days of application submission.


You're experiencing some of the reaction to the "Laws for thee, not for me" that grates on one, after a while, expressed in NES' style (or lack thereof). This is why the "It's not required per MGLs" is a response.

My advice - if you want your LTC, follow the instructions, and get cranky about it, later. Hell, in my city, you need to show a picture ID to pick up your new LTC.....which has you picture on it....that the people that are giving the card, took! But, they accept an expired LTC as proof of who you are.....

 

[42!]

OP: I get where you're coming from - it's a Brave New World, especially in the DPRM.

Yes, it's on the bottom of the page, but the requirement is not in any of the MGLs. People here (mostly) believe that there are too many laws, but the ones that are there should be followed by all.

Some history:

A while back, some cities were charging more than the state-set fees. When GOAL called them out on it, and complained to the Inspector General's office, GOAL was told, "Tell them to stop it." No penalty for the bad towns, or refunds made to those overcharged.

Mass General Laws state that a Mass HunterEd cert is acceptable for FID/LTC issuance; some towns don't accept them.

One of my kids became and NRA Instructor at 13. At 15, he went to get an FID app at the local PD. "You have to be 18," he was told.
"Unless you have parental permission," he replied. When he went to turn in the app., they tried to charge him $100, not the state-mandated $25. He'd brought a printout of the relevant MGLs. The PD 'checked on it' and charged the correct $25.

Oh, yeah, per state law, you're supposed to get your license within 40 days of application submission.


You're experiencing some of the reaction to the "Laws for thee, not for me" that grates on one, after a while, expressed in NES' style (or lack thereof). This is why the "It's not required per MGLs" is a response.

My advice - if you want your LTC, follow the instructions, and get cranky about it, later. Hell, in my city, you need to show a picture ID to pick up your new LTC.....which has you picture on it....that the people that are giving the card, took! But, they accept an expired LTC as proof of who you are.....

The application used to say the references were optional, they changed the form but the law didn't change. Framingham was still using the form with optional on it in 2015, so whenever they changed it, it wasn't all that long ago.

 

[MGnoob]

So the app asks for 2 references.
I am wondering who to ask and or does it make any difference!?
Do they have to be local to the town I am applying in, or just in MA. Some of the people I have in mind that I know would give me a reference, I am not sure if they are or not gun owners.
I also have mixed feelings about telling people about a personal choice like that.

I just leave it blank.

 

[MGnoob]

“Have you ever appeared in court as a defendant?”
“ What states have you been a resident of?”

I’m usually filling out the back of the paperwork where it is Blank.

They want your life story under 300 characters….

It’s all just a crock of shit

 

[MGnoob]

Have you ever been known by another name?

That’s a pretty ambiguous question.

 

[556USER]

Have you ever been known by another name?

Yes, but I can't print it here.

 

[dingbat]

Put down the names of a bunch of police officers in the town you’re applying in. When the licensing officer says “None of these guys know you.” reply, “Exactly.”

 

[MSant]

just put reptile twice