Where to start?

pdogg77

pdogg77

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EDIT: First purchase on page 3



Just got a C&R and I'm looking to get into some surplus rifles. I generally don't want to make a first time buyer mistake and say "oh crap I should have bought X instead of this". Let me give you some of my thoughts and hopefully someone can direct me on what to look for.

One of the primary drivers for this is to get interesting guns cheap. I know you get what you pay for but it seems like there are better deals to be had here than the $1000+ black rifle and modern handgun market. I'm a new Dad on a budget. :)

I want to shoot these guns. I don't want to look at them. I'm looking for a "functional" collection. Not things that are so nice/rare/strange that they are prohibitively expensive or fearful to shoot.

Some ideas in my mind are Mauser 98k, Mosin-Nagant 1891/30 or something of the like.

What should a newbie in this area be looking for and what should I certainly avoid?


Thanks,
 
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Lots of fun toys out there. You should find/ask someone that has a broad collection to look at a few. Deside for yourself. I like 24/47's, 91/30's, K31's, M36 Mas, M96 & M38's, No4mk1's.. pretty much everything, except U.S. rifles.
 
Cheapest first purchase would hands down be a M91/30. Plus they are stupidly simple so you don't have to worry too much when you start taking it apart and inspecting it.
 
No one has mentioned a Masuer; Gew98 (WWI), or K98k (WWII). I do second the vote for a M1903 Springfield; caution, Springfield made Springfields numbered <800,000 are not safe to shoot.

MS
 
No one has mentioned a Masuer[smile]; Gew98 (WWI), or K98k (WWII). I do second the vote for a M1903 Springfield; caution, Springfield made Springfields numbered <800,000 are not safe to shoot.

MS

Somehow I posted twice trying to edit it. Although I would vote twice for a Mauser!
 
PatMcD said:
I'd have to say the Swedish Mausers, M96 and M38, are the sweetest shooting of all the surplus rifles.
Click to expand...

What he said [laugh2]
http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1179389&postcount=140
That's Swedes no. 6 & 7 in the herd. Besides these two, the are a m/94-14 in 6.5x55 , another in 7mm Mauser, an Oberndorf 1900 m/96 (was my first one), a Husqvarna m/38 of 1942, and a m/96-38 Carl Gustafs of 1917.
Leaves an m/41 w/ Ajack 4x90 and a Ljungman ag/42B to desire[smile]
 
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JuergenG said:
What he said [laugh2]
http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1179389&postcount=140
That's Swedes no. 6 & 7 in the herd. Besies these two, the are a m/94-14 in 6.5x55 , another in 7mm Mauser, an Oberndorf 1900 m/96 (was my first one), a Husqvarna m/38 of 1942, and a m/96-38 Carl Gustafs of 1917.
Leaves an m/41 w/ Ajack 4x90 and a Ljungman ag/42B to desire[smile]
Click to expand...

I had the M/41 with Ajack 4x90. Nice rifle, but it didn't shoot as well as the CG-63. Sold it off for other guns.

I know: stupid

A friend has the Ljungman. I want it.
 
It really doesnt matter, something else will catch your eye before the 1st one gets delivered.
My first, a pair of CZ 82 pistols I mean really 169.00 with no accessories and 198.00 with ????? Then a Garand, but really the Garand was first just took 7 months to get it[smile]
I have been eye balling all the surplus rifles that take 7.62x54r
 
pdogg77 said:
Just got a C&R and I'm looking to get into some surplus rifles.
Click to expand...

This thread will have about as many different answers as there are available C&R guns because evryone has their own preference.

Myself, I'll tell you to invest in SKS and Mosin types simply because the SKS (with the exception of Chinese types) is C&R, semi auto, a great design, & ammo is still cheap compared to today's other options as long as you buy it in bulk.

Mosin types are what every C&R holder should invest in because you may strike gold on a 91/30 that has East German markings or other rare variant stampings. There are plenty of rare Mosins out there that people are scooping up daily and realizing afer looking up stampings that they have a rare variant.
Even if you're not looking for a collectable, its money in the bank because they are slightly rising in value and like I mentioned, you can get that Golden Ticket variant thats worth twice as much as you paid for it from a distributor.
Its luck of the draw really

Aside from all the info you've read here... what are you doing on the 28th of this month??? [wink] http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=79775

Its your best bet on finding out info on military surplus rifles, trying them out, and hanging out with a great crowd of people while shooting, eating, and talking guns all day.
 
I started with an SKS and I'm worried everything else won't compare. I absolutely love it.

If I had to do it again and couldn't get an SKS, I'd probably pick an Enfield. I just think they're beautiful rifles.
 
If you want to start out with short money buy a Mosin 91/30 or a SKS. You can find ammo far cheaper than 30-06 or 8mm. Russian captured mausers or Yugo mausers can be found but 8mm has gone WAY up in price.

A nice 1903 or 1903a3 is going to set you back a few bucks. As to K98 Mausers if you want a real deal break open your wallet.

So I guess its really is up to what you want to spend. I suggest you buy what you like and can afford. If you spend a great deal and find you hate the darn thing you will be kicking yourself.

Swedes are great too but again the money issue is there as well as finding a good source of ammo.

My ultimate suggestion, buy one of each[wink]

I will have a Polish M44 and a Yugo mauser at the 28th shoot. I let folks try them who are just entering the surplus market. I supply the ammo as well.
 
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So many ways to answer this question. One way is to ask more questions:

1. Are you looking for "safe queens" or shooters? Well, you've already answered that question - good for you! I never understood buying and putting away a perfectly good gun without sending some lead down range - that's what it was made for.

2. Are you going to be a collector, or an "accumulator"? A collector focuses in on one particular area, country, time period or model, and then tries to scoop up the many variations out there. An accumulator just snatches up whatever looks good! Some folks start out as one, and turn into the other.

3. Are you going to stick with strictly milsurps, or look at other collectibles? I love my military surplus stuff, but there's something about a Remington Model 8 - the first commercially successful autoloading rifle - that can't be expressed.

4. Are you going to collect just U.S., or dabble in foreign arms? The U.S. stuff is great - well built, and a part of our collective heritage. But expect to pay a premium. You can find similar guns from outside the country that provide just as much shooting fun, at a fraction of the price of their US equivalents.

5. Do you want to stick with just the C&R time period (currently 1899 through 1959), or expand into antiques? I had no desire to buy antiques myself until I ran across my first Springfield Trapdoor. Then came the Martini Henry. Then came the Snider. Etc. Don't dismiss antiques as rusty artifacts - some of them have been so well cared-for that they look and function like new. My Swiss Model 1889 rifle (with 12-round magazine!) particularly comes to mind.

6. Are you going to focus on just the guns themselves, or try to add all the accessories - bayonet, sling, cleaning kit, muzzle protector, scopes, etc? Be advised that sometimes the bayonets are much more rare than the rifles they belong to - and consequently are more expensive. I never thought I'd pay $300 for a Model 1871 German Bayonet - until I did! But you should see how it looks on that Model 1871 rifle!

And don't forget the reference books! There are so many out there that make the collection all that more rewarding, because you actually know something about the history of the gun.

So can I give a specific list of guns? Nope. Get out there and see what you like and go for it! If you have specific questions about specific guns, you've come to the right place. Ask away!

*
 
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Thanks for the ideas and directions all... As usual this board comes through. :)

USMA-82 - Particularly good intro set of questions there. I think I'm an "accumulator" personality :) I'd say I have a "general history" interest more than a particular period or place and a desire to hold, learn about and shoot interesting machines that played a role. We'll see where it goes! :)

Thanks for the tips all...
I'll keep you updated on progress! I think I'm Mosin 91/30 shopping for the moment.
 
When I first got my C&R I bought everything I could that was under $300. Six years ago you could buy a lot of different types of C&R guns for under $300. Today, you can get half of what you used to be able to get for that price and the prices keep going up.

At one time Swiss K31s were $79, now they're at around $300. Point being is that even if you go the one of each way and scoop up what you can find from distributors, you can always sell off what you grow tired of later for what you paid or a slight profit because its a safe bet they're not going to decrease in value as long as you keep them in their original state.

As far as what to avoid, thats a tough call because you really can't go wrong in collecting. The only exception may be ammo availability but even then its out there if you want it and you can always get into reloading. For example, when Steyr M95s came out, no one bought them because ammo was impossible to find and the rifles were priced high. Then ammo flooded the market and when it started drying up, the rifles dropped in price because no one was buying them anymore.

Another example is when Yugoslavian SKS Types first came out, they were at around $500 to $600. Then the market was flooded by massive importation and they dropped to $149 for unissued condition rifles. Now, they're drying up and VG condition ones are going for $250 and up.

Rule of thumb is buy it cheap and stack it deep.
 
I started out with a Mosin Nagant M44 carbine. I had never seen one before and didn't know anything about them, it was just a beautiful rifle. I then picked up a Yugo Mauser. Both are fun to shoot, the Mauser is light years ahead of the M44 in accuracy. Both have readily available ammo.
I then stepped stepped up to the American Classics, the M1 Garand and Carbine. They were way more money, are harder to find ammo for, but I love them both.
I kick myself for not buying more Milsurps when they were $150-$250. Right now it seems the RussianM38/M44/1891 are the only affordable entry level guns.
 
So I started out with a nice Mosin Nagant 91/30 and a M1895 revolver.

Image00002.jpg


They are both in quite good shape and came with the expected accessories (the bayonet is still under about 3" of cosmoline, I worked on cleaning up the actual guns enough for photos)

The revolver is dated 1943 and the grips have definitely been bumped around. It functions perfectly. (I thought my MA triggered M&P had a heavy pull [laugh] )

Image00001.jpg


The markings on the rifle seem to imply 1917 "Izhevsk Imperial M91 or Dragoon" according to: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinMarks01.htm

The numbers on the bolt, magazine floor plate, and end plate on the stock seem to have been stamped to match the receiver serial number.

I must say... opening these boxes and checking out the marks on the rifle etc. was "too much fun". I'm a total addict now... :) If anyone has more thoughts or info as to the history of this rifle I'm all ears.

receivercu.jpg
 
Nice score on a really early Mosin. If you mail ordered it, you lucked out because its rare to get one like that mail order.

The revolver looks good too. Some Murphy's Oil soap, a stiff toothbrush, and some gentle brushing in the direction of the cuts will clean all the crud out of the checkering on those grips. Or if you have a hand held steam cleaner, that will work too.
 
FWIW, I bough the GO/NO GO Mosin Nagant headspace gauges so if anyone metrowestish needs to borrow them, let me know.
 

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