When the cops come to confiscate: How do they know you eFA10'd them to somebody else since guns never leave the registry?

Dennis in MA said:
Even the other way is NBD. "We can prove that you own Pistol XYZ." "No, you can prove that I PURCHASED Pistol XYZ. I traded it in at a dealer. Might have been Carr's or Costa's. I forget. What? Neither are in business? Well then you're SOL, aren't you?"
Click to expand...

...add Foster's, Richie's, Ron Strickland and Sons, H-S Trading, Commonwealth, Antique Armory, Gun Room, Wayne's......I miss them all.
 
psst. You don't need to prove anything.

Back when I was in CT, a friend temporarily became a PP. His estranged wife filed for a protective order against him and got it. He filed for an order against her and got it.

So a day later the cops show up at his door to get his guns. He tells them that 1) absent a warrant they can not come in. 2) he doesn't have any guns.

They start pushing him for proof that he doesn't have any guns. Specifically a form DPS3 that any dealer gives you when you do a transfer either way with them.
They continue to push.
He pulls out a printed page of the CT statute and says "I'm in full compliance with the protective order". And closes the door.

I wish I was there to see it.

What the cops didn't know and the CT statutes don't take into account is if the person transfers the guns out of state. No paperwork, no "proof". They had to live with it.
 
dcmdon said:
psst. You don't need to prove anything.

Back when I was in CT, a friend temporarily became a PP. His estranged wife filed for a protective order against him and got it. He filed for an order against her and got it.

So a day later the cops show up at his door to get his guns. He tells them that 1) absent a warrant they can not come in. 2) he doesn't have any guns.

They start pushing him for proof that he doesn't have any guns. Specifically a form DPS3 that any dealer gives you when you do a transfer either way with them.
They continue to push.
He pulls out a printed page of the CT statute and says "I'm in full compliance with the protective order". And closes the door.

I wish I was there to see it.

What the cops didn't know and the CT statutes don't take into account is if the person transfers the guns out of state. No paperwork, no "proof". They had to live with it.
Click to expand...
Somehow I don't think most MA PDs would just go away.
 
dcmdon said:
psst. You don't need to prove anything.

Back when I was in CT, a friend temporarily became a PP. His estranged wife filed for a protective order against him and got it. He filed for an order against her and got it.

So a day later the cops show up at his door to get his guns. He tells them that 1) absent a warrant they can not come in. 2) he doesn't have any guns.

They start pushing him for proof that he doesn't have any guns. Specifically a form DPS3 that any dealer gives you when you do a transfer either way with them.
They continue to push.
He pulls out a printed page of the CT statute and says "I'm in full compliance with the protective order". And closes the door.

I wish I was there to see it.

What the cops didn't know and the CT statutes don't take into account is if the person transfers the guns out of state. No paperwork, no "proof". They had to live with it.
Click to expand...

I have heard both sides in MA. One where the gun owner shuts his mouth and the system gives up because they can't charge the guy and the other where the prosecution starts making threats of this or that law being broken blah blah..

I think the reality in MA is more like this.....


View: https://youtu.be/nHzd1wzn_jo
 
Ohhh reptile. That sounds like the biggest conspiracy theory I’ve ever heard.... the things you worry about aren’t even real life problems
 
Drix said:
Nope, they'll demand the firearms, reject your efa10 transfer paperwork, and threaten the person holding them with interfering in a police investigation.
Click to expand...
I agree. Plus get a search warrant based on being non-cooperative and the PD having a list of guns after revocation/suspension. I can't see any Mass Marsupial judge denying such a search warrant request.
 
A friend will help you move.

A real friend lives in NH and will safekeep all your guns and ammo
when you show up unannounced one night
with your MFing deep state spyware smartphone left back in Massachusetts
and your MFing deep state spyware dashboard navigator's fuse pulled.
 
AHM said:
A friend will help you move.

A real friend lives in NH and will safekeep all your guns and ammo
when you show up unannounced one night
with your MFing deep state spyware smartphone left back in Massachusetts
and your MFing deep state spyware dashboard navigator's fuse pulled.
Click to expand...
I gotta learn where that fuse is.

I'll leave it off for a few weeks so they wont figure out the radius to my possible destination.

Edit: Easy fuse removal for my car. Radio / Nav - that should turn it all off. I know where the fuse is. I'll test it and try calling On Star. If that does not work I'll try to locate my car on my App.

If I need to use my separate GPS unit, I'm not sure I I can forensically wipe the destinations and data so I'll have to know where I'm going.
 
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Len-2A Training said:
I agree. Plus get a search warrant based on being non-cooperative and the PD having a list of guns after revocation/suspension. I can't see any Mass Marsupial judge denying such a search warrant request.
Click to expand...
If the guns aren't in your house, then they can get all the warrants they want.

If the guns were transferred lawfully, then there still isn't anything they can do.

The only thing they can hold over you is that you won't ever get your LTC back. So if its something temporary like a protective order, then it's probably worth it to play ball. If its something like a DUI conviction that gets you banned in MA forever, then its worth pushing back.

There are many lawful ways that you can transfer your guns to someone else without the cops being able to figure out where they went. (Think out of state) And you are under no legal obligation to tell them where they went. I am not talking about breaking any laws. I am talking about being 100% legal. Black and white legal.

The most obvious way to comply is to bring the guns out of state and transfer them to an FFL in that state. If you are really paranoid, leave your cell phone and ezPass at home. Don't call the dealer prior, don't email him. Just show up and have him hold them. The dealer's A&D book is open for inspection by the ATF. But if you don't leave digital breadcrumbs, then if your local PD doesn't know where to look. I doubt they would invest the time to engage the ATF to scour every FFL in the country looking for your guns.

Again, you would be 100% compliant with all state and federal laws if you did this. And the guns would be waiting for you when you got things straightened out. Or the dealer could sell them for you if you became a PP.
 
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You can play games if you want, but the PD may be able to do the same.

Back ~40 yrs ago there was someone on my street that was selling drugs out of a roach-coach. He got busted and I was told that the police went into his house with a search warrant and "found" >$10K in cash buried in the walls of his house. I never asked, so I'm guessing that they ripped holes in some walls to find it. All that I know for certain was that the house was eventually ripped down, someone else bought the property and built a mini-mansion on that lot.

I really wouldn't want my house ripped apart and suffer the damages just to be a wiseguy and not give the PD the info or stuff they were looking for. YMMV
 
Len-2A Training said:
Back ~40 yrs ago there was someone on my street that was selling drugs out of a roach-coach. He got busted and I was told that the police went into his house with a search warrant and "found" >$10K in cash buried in the walls of his house. I never asked, so I'm guessing that they ripped holes in some walls to find it. All that I know for certain was that the house was eventually ripped down, someone else bought the property and built a mini-mansion on that lot.
Click to expand...
In the 70's some cops on Long Island were convinced that some mafia in-law
had money and/or contraband on their property.

At least once they moved in and ripped out all the walls,
and dug up the lawns so it looked like the Somme.

Didn't find a thing.

Homeowners weren't smart enough to engineer an electrical fire "caused" by hasty wall ripping.

Shrug.
 
Len-2A Training said:
You can play games if you want, but the PD may be able to do the same.
Click to expand...

Depends on what the nature of the confiscation is. If its 209A or something felony related, the kopsch will get whatever warrants they need and take whatever they want, wherever they
want. Things like Lautenberg are orbital and exist in every state. If its something dumb like a "we revoked businblahs license because the chief saw him picking his nose" then having your guns out of state is a fine prophylactic, because NH or many other states wont touch that shit with a 49.5 foot pole. (EG, someone is not prohibited by their state law or federal law).
 
Reptile said:
Guns never leave the police registry.
How do I explain they are all gone?
Are they going to tear my house apart?
Should my tegu and other household reptiles be concerned?

I don't expect to be in trouble any time soon - but the registry has me concerned since it's not updated.

I'm an honest man but I can't repatriate guns that are 6 feet down in frozen earth deep in the wilds of other states.
The GPS coordinates are on an encrypted flash drive sealed in a capsule at the bottom of a pond.
The password to the encrypted flash drive is on a one time pad hidden in another secret location.

What do they expect you to do - wait till Spring?
Click to expand...
Are you afraid you will get busted for selling ammo?
 
drgrant said:
Depends on what the nature of the confiscation is. If its 209A or something felony related, the kopsch will get whatever warrants they need and take whatever they want, wherever they
want. Things like Lautenberg are orbital and exist in every state. If its something dumb like a "we revoked businblahs license because the chief saw him picking his nose" then having your guns out of state is a fine prophylactic, because NH or many other states wont touch that shit with a 49.5 foot pole. (EG, someone is not prohibited by their state law or federal law).
Click to expand...
Another state can only assist if they know where they are.

My point in all this is NOT to circumvent any laws. If you are a PP, then you can't have guns. But if they are at least at a dealer somewhere, they can be either held until the legal jeopardy is sorted out or sold at fair market value. Not rotting in an evidence room or even worse a bonded storage locker somewhere.

Remember, even if the other state wants to help, they still have to find them. Again, I'm not talking about facilitating the breaking of any laws. Actually I'm talking about forcing the states to respect the law. Which is that you shall not be deprived of property without due process of law.

One other tidbit - if you own a weekend or vacation place in NH or ME, states that don't require any paperwork or background check for secondary transfers, you can drive up and hand them to a friend and they are legally transferred. Remember per the ATF if you have a second home, you are considered a resident of that state when you are up there. So no dealer necessary to facilitate a transfer. This is not grey. It is black and white. It is detailed in the instructions on questions 2 and 20 on the ATF form 4473.
 
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dcmdon said:
Another state can only assist if they know where they are.
Click to expand...

Don,. most people are retarded/scared and will run their mouth to the police, thus "knowing". It also doesn't take much for an MA detective that isnt a total
lunkhead to search records and stuff to find out where peoples 2nd homes, etc, are. Unless someone does something clever like conceal this ownership with a trust or
corporation, that stuff is easily determined. Hell most of that data is even in the public domain.

Further, a lot of lawyers are also retarded and start getting cold feet when their client gets braced with "tell us where the guns are or we sic (some stupid MGL here) on
you". There's some bullshit in MGL about requiring disclosure on demand, I forget what it is, but @Len-2A Training probably remembers
it. Even if 99% of the time it is an empty threat. The savvy/alpha type lawyers are going to just tell their client to shut the f*** up, say nothing, and wait for
release. Particularly if the client has done nothing else wrong.

dcmdon said:
My point in all this is NOT to circumvent any laws. If you are a PP, then you can't have guns. But if they are at least at a dealer somewhere, they can be either held until the legal jeopardy is sorted out or sold at fair market value. Not rotting in an evidence room or even worse a bonded storage locker somewhere.
Click to expand...
yes

dcmdon said:
Remember, even if the other state wants to help, they still have to find them. Again, I'm not talking about facilitating the breaking of any laws. Actually I'm talking about forcing the states to respect the law. Which is that you shall not be deprived of property without due process of law.
Click to expand...

That's laughable/not reality, With a 209A / Lautenberg this is a joke and "due process" is only exists there by virtue of basically whispering the words "due process" * while denying the accused access to a jury etc. Due process in MA and many other states with DV ROs consists of "hovering the guilty stamp over the paperwork a few extra seconds to make someone think we care about due process" [rofl]

Yes, I get it, on paper it is "due process" but the fact that the courts actually can call it that with a straight face is laughable. It's basically a scripted dog and pony show, one where the accused is strapped to the ground with stakes and the dogs and ponies stomp on the accused's face and crap/piss all over him at random odd intervals.

*Dean Speir once made a joke about an ammunition manufacturer who used thin copper wash over a lead bullet to suggest the bullets were jacketed. "Apparently with this company, the bullet plating procedure consisted of whispering the words "copper jacketed" at the bullets while they rolled in front of a factory worker on a converyor belt. "
 
drgrant said:
Don,. most people are retarded/scared and will run their mouth to the police, thus "knowing". It also doesn't take much for an MA detective that isnt a total
lunkhead to search records and stuff to find out where peoples 2nd homes, etc, are. Unless someone does something clever like conceal this ownership with a trust or
corporation, that stuff is easily determined. Hell most of that data is even in the public domain.

Further, a lot of lawyers are also retarded and start getting cold feet when their client gets braced with "tell us where the guns are or we sic (some stupid MGL here) on
you". There's some bullshit in MGL about requiring disclosure on demand, I forget what it is, but @Len-2A Training probably remembers
it. Even if 99% of the time it is an empty threat. The savvy/alpha type lawyers are going to just tell their client to shut the f*** up, say nothing, and wait for
release. Particularly if the client has done nothing else wrong.
Click to expand...
Yes, I don't recall the exact citation and don't have time to dig for it, but upon being suspended/revoked, one must immediately turn everything over OR disclose where they are (if outside person's direct control at the time) or they will get charged with a felony. I recall LEOs threatening that charge. It is in the MGLs, that I am certain of.

The issue then becomes that MA LEOs have to rely on non-MA LEOs confiscating them. Something unlikely to happen other than a Lautenberg Act issue, or perhaps if the person is a real Federally PP. I would expect a "thanks for the info, have a nice day response" if it is neither of these.
 
Len-2A Training said:
Yes, I don't recall the exact citation and don't have time to dig for it, but upon being suspended/revoked, one must immediately turn everything over OR disclose where they are (if outside person's direct control at the time) or they will get charged with a felony. I recall LEOs threatening that charge. It is in the MGLs, that I am certain of.

The issue then becomes that MA LEOs have to rely on non-MA LEOs confiscating them. Something unlikely to happen other than a Lautenberg Act issue, or perhaps if the person is a real Federally PP. I would expect a "thanks for the info, have a nice day response" if it is neither of these.
Click to expand...
You must turn over everything or disclose where they are.

but if they have already been transferred, they aren't yours anymore and don't need to be disclosed. So part of the trick would be to get them out of your possession BEFORE they come knocking at your door.

The MA law makes sense if you consider the idea of someone removing the firearms after the fact. But if it happens before a protective order is issued or before a LTC is revoked, then the cops have no more legal right to know where they went than they do to know where a gun you sold 20 years ago went.
 
I haven't read all the posts so pardon me if this has been asked and answered already...what if one lives in a state where there are no FA10s to follow you around, just cash passing hands and a handshake. What can the fuzz do?
 
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What if they take a Glock that is not "Mass compliant"?

An FFL could never transfer it back to you.

If you have a newer Glock - will you lose it forever?
 

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