What's better than an M1 Garand?

[daekken]

How about two of them? I guess I'm now officially a member of the Church of John Cantius Garand and his magnificent creation.

First up, my first M1 ever, a CMP Field Special. A combination of impatience and wanting something serviceable for JCG matches led me to put an order in. Springfield 18698xx serial which I believe is August 1943. WRA trigger housing, SA bolt, hammer, post-war sights. Haven't had time to check the op rod yet or do further disassembly. If I hadn't missed time last week from illness I'd use some PTO to spend all day with it. As it stands, probably first range trip Thur/Fri or next week (away this weekend to in-laws, of course ).

Since it's a special it's got the CMP wood and the new Criterion barrel.

Bolt: D28287-12SA S-A1<>
Trigger Housing: D28290-W.R.A.
Hammer: C46008-5 SA

Only wish I had more time. Rushing as I write this. Some poor quality pics attached.

Now, I mentioned two, and here's the rub: Back on Dec 12 I got impatient waiting on service grades, so I sent in an order for a regular field grade that's been sitting in the estore for two months and change. Today, I get an email asking me if I want to switch it to a service grade for the price difference. According to the CMP email, FGs will be one week to one month back order, but service grades, to quote, "are ready to ship." Here's the caveat though: the next sentence of the email (I half expected this) reads, "Most of the Service grade rifles will have new stocks."

Since I wanted the non-special to be more "authentic" I was really hoping to have USGI wood. I used the majspud special sticky (WW2 Serial, USGI wood) on the non-special FG order. Since I have a WW2 serial now, I'd almost be more interested in an HRA to mix it up, but I do really want USGI wood, so that's the part I'm stuck on.

So, the big question: is it worth the $100 extra to bump to service grade to a.) get it right away instead of 1-4+ weeks, b.) get the SG parts over the FG, and c.) potentially have to hunt for a USGI stock?

Obviously, there's a chance I end up with USGI wood on the SG, but I think it's unlikely. I'm leaning towards taking the offer and switching to SG, but was curious what those of you with much more experience (and knowledge of quality and availability of parts) have to say.

If only all my problems were choosing which kind of Garand to get!

 

[dhuze]

Back in the day (a couple years ago), you had a better chance of getting scarcer stuff on field grades. Now they offer the field grade special which means you could get new production parts including the stock. Now it's a "whatever we have you get" scenario. You will get a better grade barrel on service rifle, but you could end up with a new barrel on a field grade special too. So the question is, what do YOU want more.
I always got service grades because I like shooters better, but I've also got some good scarce parts too.
If wood is your big issue, field grades have a better change of USGI because they can be beat to crap and meet the CMP's description. I always used a post it with the note USGI wood prefered, dented and dinged up is OK with me.

 

[majspud]

Dented and dinged wood = character.

T

 

[76Too]

New wood=better lockup

I've grown to love new wood from CMP.

 

[Lennypeters]

My recent service grade came with a shiny new CMP stock set. I never thought to request GI wood and now I wish I had.

 

[76Too]

My recent service grade came with a shiny new CMP stock set. I never thought to request GI wood and now I wish I had.

My IHC came with a GI stock, and I still prefer the Springfield with the new wood. I own every dent and ding! Some of the stocks I've seen have been BEAUTIFUL!

 

[daekken]

To be clear--I want the USGI wood. I'm just wondering if it's worth sticking with a FG (which is supposed to be USGI wood) or spending $100 more plus the cost of a USGI stock separately to swap. Basically, is the ME/TE difference and parts quality difference between SG/FG worth $100 + a USGI stock purchased after the fact?

If stocks were both USGI it would be a no-brainer for me as I originally wanted an SG anyway. I'm expecting a USGI stock set would run $200-300, although I haven't looked into it yet as I didn't anticipate it being an issue.

 

[76Too]

They're out there...But if you want a correct 1943 stock with all the right proof marks/cartouches, you could be looking at a small fortune. The CMP replaces the stocks because the rifles just plain shoot better with new wood.

I remember 4 or so years ago when I got my first Garands and I was upset I didn't get the GI wood...But the time and care I put into finishing the stock it came with was my first project with the rifle, and it made it 'mine'. If you really don't like your new wood, I'll probably buy it off you if the price is right. That ought to offset some of the cost of a GI stock set...how bout dat?

 

[76Too]

OP...IMHO...It IS worth the extra $$$ for service grade if you actually want the rifle to shoot accurately for a good while. The field grades can have me of up to 5+...Not to say they won't shoot OK, but the barrel may be on its way out. Better to pay up front to the CMP who you KNOW does quality work than have to have someone mount a new barrel/headspace/lap the bolt that you might not be so confident that of their work. Just my $ .02.

 

[daekken]

They're out there...But if you want a correct 1943 stock with all the right proof marks/cartouches, you could be looking at a small fortune. The CMP replaces the stocks because the rifles just plain shoot better with new wood.

I remember 4 or so years ago when I got my first Garands and I was upset I didn't get the GI wood...But the time and care I put into finishing the stock it came with was my first project with the rifle, and it made it 'mine'. If you really don't like your new wood, I'll probably buy it off you if the price is right. That ought to offset some of the cost of a GI stock set...how bout dat?

I'll be leaving the new wood on the special, as I figure it'll be better for matches. It's got a new barrel, so it might as well have new wood. I expect to shoot the special more due to the barrel, refinishing, etc.

Without knowing what the receiver would be on Garand #2, it doesn't need to be 1943 or anything special really, just something "with character." My thought process was that a more "original" rifle without the new barrel, etc., would merit USGI wood. I'd consider your offer, all things being equal. I'm thinking $100 more for TE/ME difference and parts quality is worth it, and just roll the dice on the wood, expecting to seek out a USGI set at some point.

I guess there's always a chance I end up with USGI wood on a SG if I do switch. Slim, but possible. What is kind of funny to me is that I ordered the special partly because I thought I'd be several more weeks from delivery time on the FG...I never expected to get an email the day after the special arrived that I could swap to SG and have it ready to ship. I might end up with M1s delivered a week or two apart, which would not be something to complain about!

 

[mac1911]

If you want a more authentic mail order M1 get the field grade. You have the special for a shooter.
I have seen several field grades with like new GI barrels but receiver finish and parts are well worn and the beat up GI stock.
You can always buy a new production stock for the field grade.
Also depending on what comes on the field grade you might be able to swap trade or sell the stock to fund a more correct one.

Also remember if you get the field grade and don't like it you can sell it easily for what you paid.

Also remember CMP puts together field grades also.

And lastly... that field grade special looks nice. Almost the grayish green park so many look for. I would like to see the pitting.... I have seen 3 field grade specials so far and the pitting is minimal one has a slight frosting/pitting across the heal....but these are ment to be shot. Best deal for a shooter IMHO.

 

[enbloc]

.

 

[mac1911]

They're out there...But if you want a correct 1943 stock with all the right proof marks/cartouches, you could be looking at a small fortune. The CMP replaces the stocks because the rifles just plain shoot better with new wood.

I remember 4 or so years ago when I got my first Garands and I was upset I didn't get the GI wood...But the time and care I put into finishing the stock it came with was my first project with the rifle, and it made it 'mine'. If you really don't like your new wood, I'll probably buy it off you if the price is right. That ought to offset some of the cost of a GI stock set...how bout dat?

CMP uses new wood because they don't have enough wood for all the steel parts after they put them together. Few years back they sold woodless rifles . I think they figured might as well take advantage of the in house armory and build rifles out of all the parts...

 

[daekken]

If you want a more authentic mail order M1 get the field grade. You have the special for a shooter.
I have seen several field grades with like new GI barrels but receiver finish and parts are well worn and the beat up GI stock.
You can always buy a new production stock for the field grade.
Also depending on what comes on the field grade you might be able to swap trade or sell the stock to fund a more correct one.

Also remember if you get the field grade and don't like it you can sell it easily for what you paid.

Also remember CMP puts together field grades also.

And lastly... that field grade special looks nice. Almost the grayish green park so many look for. I would like to see the pitting.... I have seen 3 field grade specials so far and the pitting is minimal one has a slight frosting/pitting across the heal....but these are ment to be shot. Best deal for a shooter IMHO.

I went and took some pictures of the pitting. The worst appears to be near the hand guards. There's a little on the heel of the receiver and some small amounts along the wood line. The pitting definitely exists and is noticeable, but not unexpected or unreasonable given the description. The flash of the camera makes it more noticeable and look worse (to me) than the naked eye.


A night's sleep did not bring me any clarity on FG/SG decision. I'd rather spend $100 and have a nicer rifle, but once you tack on a new stock set to the $100 to make it $250-400 extra spending, it begins to get debatable when I could put that money into more ammo and reloading components. So it's really a matter of is the throat erosion differences and parts difference worth having to fund a new stock set, and I'm not sure if that's the case for a "backup" M1. The use case is most likely pinging 100-200 yards plates on occasion, so I'm starting to think it doesn't justify the added expense for me. Again, only because of the stock. If both had new wood or both had USGI wood, I wouldn't hesitate to bump up.

 

[mac1911]

I went and took some pictures of the pitting. The worst appears to be near the hand guards. There's a little on the heel of the receiver and some small amounts along the wood line. The pitting definitely exists and is noticeable, but not unexpected or unreasonable given the description. The flash of the camera makes it more noticeable and look worse (to me) than the naked eye.
View attachment 192678View attachment 192679View attachment 192680View attachment 192681

A night's sleep did not bring me any clarity on FG/SG decision. I'd rather spend $100 and have a nicer rifle, but once you tack on a new stock set to the $100 to make it $250-400 extra spending, it begins to get debatable when I could put that money into more ammo and reloading components. So it's really a matter of is the throat erosion differences and parts difference worth having to fund a new stock set, and I'm not sure if that's the case for a "backup" M1. The use case is most likely pinging 100-200 yards plates on occasion, so I'm starting to think it doesn't justify the added expense for me. Again, only because of the stock. If both had new wood or both had USGI wood, I wouldn't hesitate to bump up.

well you can always order both a field grade and a service grade... decide between the 2 swap aprts until your happy then sell the one you dont want for cost. IM thinking of buying a few rifles to take the parts gamble as my CC is paying 3% on every purchase with no interest for 12 months or there are a few new cards paying 150$ if you spend 1000$ or more in 3 months plus points some are 100$ with no interest for 12 months...
I have the cash to buy them out right but I rather make a buck or two in the process.

 

[bigblue]

well you can always order both a field grade and a service grade... decide between the 2 swap aprts until your happy then sell the one you dont want for cost. IM thinking of buying a few rifles to take the parts gamble as my CC is paying 3% on every purchase with no interest for 12 months or there are a few new cards paying 150$ if you spend 1000$ or more in 3 months plus points some are 100$ with no interest for 12 months...
I have the cash to buy them out right but I rather make a buck or two in the process.

That's actually not a half bad idea: You front the money but then get to assemble the rifle you want IF the sum of parts ends up meeting your criteria. If not then I guess you could keep buying lottery tickets.

 

[DONALDG-HOG]

What is better?

 

[daekken]

well you can always order both a field grade and a service grade... decide between the 2 swap aprts until your happy then sell the one you dont want for cost. IM thinking of buying a few rifles to take the parts gamble as my CC is paying 3% on every purchase with no interest for 12 months or there are a few new cards paying 150$ if you spend 1000$ or more in 3 months plus points some are 100$ with no interest for 12 months...
I have the cash to buy them out right but I rather make a buck or two in the process.

Yup I've got cash back and promotional 1% interest on purchases until November which is nice. If I hadn't just gotten the special I'd consider nabbing one of each but I think I'll just stick with one, feeling more like keeping to the FG right now. I dunno, I've heard from a friend that frequents shows that there are some vendors with stocks floating around. Maybe I'm overvaluing it.

 

[mac1911]

Yup I've got cash back and promotional 1% interest on purchases until November which is nice. If I hadn't just gotten the special I'd consider nabbing one of each but I think I'll just stick with one, feeling more like keeping to the FG right now. I dunno, I've heard from a friend that frequents shows that there are some vendors with stocks floating around. Maybe I'm overvaluing it.

plenty of stocks out there just depends on how correct and what condition you want to get. Dupage has had some good deals on stocks here and there...
get the field grade and if the stock is not to you likes you can buy swap trade until your happy

 

[daekken]

I'm expecting the answer to be "of course, you idiot" but is the general consensus that I should remove the gas cylinder and everything else related and inspect it? I had kind of forgotten about it and didn't do it yet, but I haven't reassembled everything yet. I've read that it shouldn't be done very often (I've even read at all unless something's wrong) and mine is nice and tight (I did see mac's video on narrowing the splines for a better fit). I honestly don't know what I would expect to find in there, since there's no cosmo or preservative grease I can see anywhere else on the rifle. Just wondering if it's one of those "you have to for safety" things...

 

[dw617]

Congrats on the new m1, hope to see you down in Pembroke.

I would say to leave the GC on for now, maybe after next season it might need to be cleaned; maybe not. It's best not to r&r them too often. I opted to not remove mine after last year's post-season 1x a year teardown, maybe next year.

 

[daekken]

Congrats on the new m1, hope to see you down in Pembroke.

That's the plan. There's got to be somebody in last place propping up the standings and it might as well be me.

I would say to leave the GC on for now, maybe after next season it might need to be cleaned; maybe not. It's best not to r&r them too often. I opted to not remove mine after last year's post-season 1x a year teardown, maybe next year.

Sounds good. I wouldn't expect there to be anything in there but just thought it might be worth since I haven't taken it off, obviously.

 

[mac1911]

I'm expecting the answer to be "of course, you idiot" but is the general consensus that I should remove the gas cylinder and everything else related and inspect it? I had kind of forgotten about it and didn't do it yet, but I haven't reassembled everything yet. I've read that it shouldn't be done very often (I've even read at all unless something's wrong) and mine is nice and tight (I did see mac's video on narrowing the splines for a better fit). I honestly don't know what I would expect to find in there, since there's no cosmo or preservative grease I can see anywhere else on the rifle. Just wondering if it's one of those "you have to for safety" things...

My thoughts on the gas cylinder.
If you can pull it off with your hands it's to loose.
Once you peen the splines and get it installed leave it alone. If you feel the need to clean it remove open rod and gas plug and run s patch through it. No real need to remove the cylinder from the barrel.

A detail strip and inspection/clean gets the anti corrosive inhibitor stuff off and you can properly oil and lube the rifle.
Then assure everything is tight

 

[daekken]

Still running through the SG/FG debate. Deadline to tell them is tomorrow. I honestly think I had less stress on the morning of my wedding day. Some of the FG reviews I've read do not paint a pretty picture...

I'm now leaning towards going with SG for the nicer metal parts knowing it's probable I'll get new wood and then just taking my time looking for serviceable USGI wood. I'm thinking it's easier to find a USGI wood set than dealing with parts that are more worn/lower quality. Then try to sell the (presumed) CMP wood to offset the cost a bit since I already might have an offer here in the thread. In one CMP forum thread a guy offered to swap three USGI sets for three new sets straight up because he had requested new wood and didn't get it.

"Dr. Daekken, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the CMP Wood."

 

[5 DOLLAR FOOT LONG]

Nice garand. I would wait and get the one you want (the field grade) since you already have one to shoot while you wait for it.

On the other hand if you get the new wood and let me handle it then I'm sure we can get it dinged up in no time.

 

[daekken]

Nice garand. I would wait and get the one you want (the field grade) since you already have one to shoot while you wait for it.

On the other hand if you get the new wood and let me handle it then I'm sure we can get it dinged up in no time.

Thanks. The funny thing is service grade was what I wanted originally. They came back for sale like three days after I had bought a different milsurp, and then when I was ready to order one last autumn, they sold out again. Bad luck on both ends. So I waited until mid-December before caving on ordering a field grade out of impatience and desperation. While waiting on the field grade, it appeared to be 1+ months out for delivery, so I decided to order the special. Then the very next day the offered the switch.

Interestingly in the new order timeline someone just posted that they took the switch, and they DID get USGI wood on their new service grade. Just one person, but it's possible...

 

[mac1911]

Thanks. The funny thing is service grade was what I wanted originally. They came back for sale like three days after I had bought a different milsurp, and then when I was ready to order one last autumn, they sold out again. Bad luck on both ends. So I waited until mid-December before caving on ordering a field grade out of impatience and desperation. While waiting on the field grade, it appeared to be 1+ months out for delivery, so I decided to order the special. Then the very next day the offered the switch.

Interestingly in the new order timeline someone just posted that they took the switch, and they DID get USGI wood on their new service grade. Just one person, but it's possible...

you never know what your going to get..... If you dont like the new wood you can sell it. The new stock sets sell for 125$ shipped at cmp. With stock metal add another 50$ or so.

 

[daekken]

you never know what your going to get.....

I couldn't resist...

 

[DW357]

I couldn't resist...

View attachment 192813

Lol. I like that show.

OR

 

[daekken]

On a side note--does the premium on WRA parts extend across the board? I got a WRA trigger housing in my special. A quick google searched showed it might be worth a little more than comparable manufacturers. Just curious. If I could trade it and get a different one plus cash, I probably would.