What would it actually take to remove the "banned handgun list?"

[StevieP]

Sorry if this is a repeat. I'm sure it has come up in the past, but I'd like to get some current thinking on this subject...

I've had my LTC-A for a couple years. So far, I have only acquired a shotgun for hunting, but am looking at options for handguns to conceal/carry.

As with most of you, I imagine, I'm frustrated that each time I think I've got my choices narrowed down, I find that what I'd like to get isn't on the AG's "approved gun roster."

Reading the Four Seasons shop's website, it seems many of the manufacturers (Springfield Armory, Kimber, Glock, etc.) have zero interest in even trying to get their firearms tested to make it on the roster. It's just not worth their time and efforts.

So, what do we as concerned citizens need to do, to get this bullhockey 'roster' law (M.G.L. c. 140, § 123; clauses 18th; 19th;20th; and 21st) removed?

We the people agree to be 'governed' not 'ruled.' If we don't like the rules, do we not have the ability to get them stricken? How is it that these non-Mass-compliant guns are perfectly good, safe, and legal to sell in every other state but our own? How do we legitimately argue that we don't actually require this level of consumer protection laws?

& after that, what would we need to do to get rid of the ridiculous 10-bullet magazine limitation?

 

[drgrant]

Handguns are not banned in MA, outside of those blocked by the AWB. You might want to change the title of your post to make it less misleading.

I hate the AG/EOPS regulations, but there are far bigger fish that need to be fried in MA (discretionary licensing), as well
as the stupid assault weapons ban.

-Mike

 

[IPSC_DRL]

Support Comm2A

 

[StevieP]

OK - let me phrase it this way. What would we need to do, so that a legally licensed Massachusetts gun seller can sell me a Kimber, or an XD(m)?

http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/approved_firearms_roster_06-2011.pdf

 

[TomH]

I hate the AG/EOPS regulations, but there are far bigger fish that need to be fried in MA (discretionary licensing), as well as the stupid assault weapons ban.

Aim big, go for them all. Why not?

 

[StevieP]

btw - you can edit the content of a thread, but it's apparently not possible to modify the subject field. Sorry to use the words "banned handguns." In fact, they're not banned. But neither are they "approved for sale in the state."

The crux of the question comes down to "How much consumer protection law do we really need?" At what point is it restraint of trade?

 

[glide]

OK - let me phrase it this way. What would we need to do, so that a legally licensed Massachusetts gun seller can sell me a Kimber, or an XD(m)?

http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/approved_firearms_roster_06-2011.pdf

Nothing. They can sell you one now if they really feel like it. Some dealers will do it. Others won't.

 

[GOAL C.M.]

Stevie, you can edit the thread title by clicking edit/go advanced.

As to your question about repealing the AG list, Rep Webster has legislation in the works, which we are supporting, to do just that. We are hoping to discuss this when the legislators return from recess after Labor Day.

 

[drgrant]

Aim big, go for them all. Why not?

Yes, they all need to be repealed- but discretionary licensing is a huge problem. Discretionary licensing is "pure cancer" while the AG/EOPS stuff in relative terms is nothing more than a couple of annoying warts. "Being able to buy more handguns from your local dealer" is nice, but things are still rotten if there are still laws in place which enable an unelected bureaucrat to take any resident's rights away at the stroke of a pen and without due process of law.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

As to your question about repealing the AG list, Rep Webster has legislation in the works, which we are supporting, to do just that. We are hoping to discuss this when the legislators return from recess after Labor Day.

This is interesting.

While this doesn't touch the EOPS garbage, IMO this is the right way to go about it. CMR940 is, in actuality, the "bigger" of the two problems because it is so damned arbitrary.

-Mike

 

[StevieP]

Thanks for the dialog. in looking at that bill (http://www.malegislature.gov/Bills/187/House/H00670), it supposedly went to a hearing on 5/12/2011.

Anyone know the outcome of that hearing? Is this bill still in-progress? Stalled? Killed?

 

[atilla]

What would it actually take to remove the "banned handgun list?

a meteor strike on the AG's office and bacon hill. these toolbags want it around forever. it's not about guns, it's about control and a nanny state like MA would never release even the tiniest bit of control over the subjects residing there.

 

[GOAL C.M.]

Thanks for the dialog. in looking at that bill (http://www.malegislature.gov/Bills/187/House/H00670), it supposedly went to a hearing on 5/12/2011.

Anyone know the outcome of that hearing? Is this bill still in-progress? Stalled? Killed?

Stevie, there's a thread on here somewhere about that hearing, it was very well attended by gun owners, and many NES'rs spoke eloquently in defense of our freedoms. The bill, like the rest that were discussed that day are all in play, discussion of which should begin when the legislators come back from Summer recess after Labor Day.

 

[Dirtypacman]

OK - let me phrase it this way. What would we need to do, so that a legally licensed Massachusetts gun seller can sell me a Kimber, or an XD(m)?

http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/approved_firearms_roster_06-2011.pdf

Private sale is going to be your best bet, that is how I got my XD (not XDm for clarification)
Someone that moves in from out of state with above said firearm.

 

[BradM]

removing the list is very simple.. VOTE. Get your friends to vote, talk to anyone who will listen and get them to vote. That's the beautify of a democracy, majority rule (supposedly while protecting the minority but I digress)

 

[inerlogic]

when the legislators return from recess after lunch.

bwah ha ha ha......

 

[jar]

That bill is by request with no co-sponsors. What are the chances such a bill will ever make it out of committee?

+1 for supporting Comm2A. I'm sure 93A is on their radar. Whether the time is right to attack this yet or not, I have no idea, but more donations increases the chance they'll be ready to go when that time comes.

 

[M1911]

There are two ways to get the law changed. The first is to get legislation passed on Bacon Hill. The reality, however, is that we don't have the votes to get a bill onto Gov. Patrick's desk, and if we did he would veto the bill. And we surely don't have a 2/3rds majority in both houses to override his veto.

So, while we should still keep pushing for legislation, we are far more likely to get relief in the courts. Unfortunately, if Obama gets to appoint another justice to the Supreme Court, then that avenue will be closed to us as well.

 

[jar]

So, while we should still keep pushing for legislation, we are far more likely to get relief in the courts. Unfortunately, if Obama gets to appoint another justice to the Supreme Court, then that avenue will be closed to us as well.

It depends on who he gets to replace. Also, there's a tiny chance that Kagan was telling the truth in her confirmations hearings.

 

[GunGrey]

**** these lists


I want shall issue goddamit

 

[Rob Boudrie]

OK - let me phrase it this way. What would we need to do, so that a legally licensed Massachusetts gun seller can sell me a Kimber, or an XD(m)?

http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/approved_firearms_roster_06-2011.pdf

A legally licensed gun owner CAN. A purveyor (licensed dealer can not).

Of greater concern than the MGL list is the AG's non-list, the details of which are covered extensively in other threads and incorporated herein by reference as if numerated in their entirety.

 

[Bill Nance]

What would it actually take to remove the "banned handgun list?

An armed revolt or 95% of the population of eastern Mass. disappearing.

I support the fight there, but Mass. is a hopeless, lost cause. Most of the people there think there isn't ENOUGH gun control. Any real progress will have to be made through the courts.

 

[FreeWillie]

Yes, they all need to be repealed- but discretionary licensing is a huge problem. Discretionary licensing is "pure cancer" while the AG/EOPS stuff in relative terms is nothing more than a couple of annoying warts. "Being able to buy more handguns from your local dealer" is nice, but things are still rotten if there are still laws in place which enable an unelected bureaucrat to take any resident's rights away at the stroke of a pen and without due process of law.

-Mike

This cannot be emphasized enough. This is the most egregious form of Tyranny there is. No one, unelected individual should have this kind of power. The Second Amendment is clear.

Why, in Gods name, should a person that has the same qualifications in one city get an unrestricted license when the other person gets a target and hunting restriction? Actually why the hell are there licenses and restrictions to begin with? (Other than they want some money for "fees")

 

[terraformer]

**** these lists


I want shall issue goddamit

It's coming. Fighting the "lists" are important too...

A legally licensed gun owner CAN. A purveyor (licensed dealer can not).

Of greater concern than the MGL list is the AG's non-list, the details of which are covered extensively in other threads and incorporated herein by reference as if numerated in their entirety.

You have been wanting to write that (in bold) for a while now, haven't you?

 

[Mr_Irritating]

Gun control will not be legislated out of existence. It will take years of expensive court battles.

 

[Mark from MA]

Gun control will not be legislated out of existence. It will take years of expensive court battles.

It still takes a majority vote....no matter how many expensive court battles there are. What you can do now is educate non gun owners and write legislators.

In the end the idiots have to be voted out of office.....slim chance in this shithole.

Save up and move to NH or a free state is a better choice and likely to happen more quickly than anything with laws here.

 

[PaulD]

Yes, they all need to be repealed- but discretionary licensing is a huge problem. Discretionary licensing is "pure cancer" while the AG/EOPS stuff in relative terms is nothing more than a couple of annoying warts. "Being able to buy more handguns from your local dealer" is nice, but things are still rotten if there are still laws in place which enable an unelected bureaucrat to take any resident's rights away at the stroke of a pen and without due process of law.

-Mike

WINNAR! My order is...

- Discretionary licensing
-
-
-
-
-
-
- AWB
-
- AG/EOPS BS

And as far as I'm concerned, the AWB has to go before the AG/EOPS BS because most of the non-compliant handguns I'd want are pretty pointless without the standard mags the manufacturers supply (think XDM).

 

[BigDaddyAl]

My order is...

- Discretionary licensing
<snip>
- AWB
-
- AG/EOPS BS

Agreed!

 

[terraformer]

WINNAR! My order is...

- Discretionary licensing
-
-
-
-
-
-
- AWB
-
- AG/EOPS BS

And as far as I'm concerned, the AWB has to go before the AG/EOPS BS because most of the non-compliant handguns I'd want are pretty pointless without the standard mags the manufacturers supply (think XDM).

Just so it's clear, if these problems get solved through the courts, what will determine the order won't be rationale, but available case law, number of times we have to go back to court, etc. Since we have already started the discretionary licensing issue, that could land first too, but don't expect this to fall in a useful order.