What did you do in the reloading room recently?

[NavelOfficer]

Had a chance after work to try the coated 30-06 loads in the A3. Accuracy at 50 yards off a rest wasn’t great. .... Then again I didn’t buy these for match grade accuracy so I need to be realistic with my expectations.

I don't know if the 170g profile is conducive to the best accuracy. The 150g 6.5mm bullet that Norm makes has a similar profile and doesn't seem to shoot as well as the Lyman 266469 in my m96. I'm not very learned about various bullet profiles (bore-riding and what not), but it just seems the profile of the 266469 shoots better than Norm's 6.5mm bullet. It's a lot easier to buy the bullets than casting my own, of course.
For my grade of marksmanship, the differences are not that drastic.

 

[DW357]

Someone on another forum claimed to have some hand in developing the data for the levergun performance link I posted earlier.
He said that some of the loads were barely supersonic at the chrono and they tended to have larger group at 50 due to going transonic at that point and that they tended to have pretty decent groupings at 100 with the same loads.
So basically stay subsonic or if you’re going supersonic to make sure it stays that way all the way to the target.
Something long range shooters think about but you don’t always consider when plinking at 50 with reduced loads.
That being said the lower BC bullets handle the super to sub sonic transition much better than the high BC bullets.
Don’t remember why or remember what you can expect from the bullet once it goes super to subsonic.
Guess it’s time to break out the applied ballistics for long range shooting and read it again.
Great book if you haven’t read it.

Ahh interesting! Looks like I need to try these at 100 yards next time. I did take a couple shots at some detergent bottles at the 120 yard backstop and did not have a problem hitting those - granted that's a rather large target lol.

I'll also try some lower charge weights to see if they'll group better being subsonic. Plus I need to play around with the Lee expander die...Got a few things to try...

 

[DW357]

Perhaps it is the profile of the bullet. I tend to shoot better with the Lyman 266469 in my Swede as compared to Norm's 150 grainer which has a similar profile to his 170g .30 caliber. I don't quite get what makes for a "bore-riding" bullet and all of that, but that might be what you're indicating with your results.
When you only have one choice (at least in 6.5mm via Norman), you pretty much have to go with it. When I get ambitious, I can always cast some of the Lyman bullets....

Certainly could be the bullet profile - not sure. It's apparent that my rifle likes the Nosler 168 gr BTHPs but I'd rather not shoot 20-22 cent bullets for powder puff plinking loads lol. Hopefully I can find a "good enough" load with the 170 gr coated bullets....My range testing yesterday wasn't all that extensive - only shot 5 rounds at 50 yards and 2 rounds at 120 yards. Didn't try varying charge weights, expanding the casemouths etc since I was being lazy. Hopefully do more loading/testing this weekend.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Certainly could be the bullet profile - not sure. It's apparent that my rifle likes the Nosler 168 gr BTHPs but I'd rather not shoot 20-22 cent bullets for powder puff plinking loads lol. Hopefully I can find a "good enough" load with the 170 gr coated bullets....My range testing yesterday wasn't all that extensive - only shot 5 rounds at 50 yards and 2 rounds at 120 yards. Didn't try varying charge weights, expanding the casemouths etc since I was being lazy. Hopefully do more loading/testing this weekend.

Have you tried loading them to a longer OAL? Seems like there’s a good bore ride section. Getting that bullet up into the bore should help accuracy. Looking at your seating stem marks on the bullet I’m guessing they’re not too hard. Hey could be deforming a bit of there is a long jump to the rifling.

 

[NavelOfficer]

That other bullet in my attached pic above is my go to plinking bullet in .30 caliber (Lyman 311410). It is plain-based and works well in 7.62x51mm/54R/63mm, 7.5 Swiss, .303 British, 7.7 Jap and 7.65 Argentine. Again, my shooting skills and expectations are probably much lower than many marksmen on this forum, so I don't expect same hole accuracy at 100 meters (even 25 meters!). All I know, is that they hit close enough for anything I need.
I do know that you will hardly hit a B27 at 50 yards if you push them too fast. My first venture into cast reloads with my K31 were with a bevel-based flat-nose bullet. I don't recall the charge, but it was way too much; couldn't get many hits on the target, let alone a decent group. Slowed them down and they printed an acceptable group for me. Granted, the flat-nose profile (a .30-30 bullet) wasn't the best for speed chambering, but they work if chambered carefully. Often times I reload with whatever bullet I come across for a reasonable price, even though they may not be the best bullet. I guess you've realized that, seeing my .22LR sabots, 5.7 JSWC bullet and other oddities.
FWIW, I've got a Lee single-cavity mold (no markings whatsoever and I don't see any mold guide reference that looks even close) that drops a 200g gc bullet that looks like the typical 150g FMJ used in a .30-06 round. Never could get good groups with it; plus being a single-cavity mold, it is a killer to cast with.

A is the unknown Lee bullet (it's the only picture I can find). One lube groove and it's far in the tail.
B is a RCBS 180g GC
C is the Lyman 311410
D is the Hornady half-jacket (100g ?)

Actually, this bullet has two grooves that look more like crimp grooves, not lube grooves (just took a picture of the mold)...

 

[DW357]

Have you tried loading them to a longer OAL? Seems like there’s a good bore ride section. Getting that bullet up into the bore should help accuracy. Looking at your seating stem marks on the bullet I’m guessing they’re not too hard. Hey could be deforming a bit of there is a long jump to the rifling.

Nope haven't tried a longer OAL either. It was just a quick swag looking at the Lyman data and off to the range...

FWIW, I seat the Nosler 168s to 3.25" using TB. I don't know if I can load them that long without exposing the groove? No idea if that even matters...

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Nope haven't tried a longer OAL either. It was just a quick swag looking at the Lyman data and off to the range...

FWIW, I seat the Nosler 168s to 3.25" using TB. I don't know if I can load them that long without exposing the groove? No idea if that even matters...

It won’t matter if the groove is exposed.
I have loaded plenty like that. It’s a common thing to do.
With traditional grease lubed bullets it’s not an issues either if kept clean and safe. They can collect dirt and damage the lube or lose line causing flyers

 

[NavelOfficer]

Seat them to your gun's chamber and magazine. As long as the bullet is seated deep enough to retain the bullet you can fit your COLs as required. Yes, seating deeper than spec at maximum charges isn't wise, but you can err to a degree with less seating depth.
Obviously, you don't want to cram the bullet into the rifling as you force the bolt closed, but you shouldn't need a half-inch of bullet jump either. If you force rounds with excessive COLs into the chamber, you will likely leave the bullet in the chamber as you extract the round. That's a good indication that it's too long.
Note my 6.5mm reloads...

 

[DW357]

It won’t matter if the groove is exposed.
I have loaded plenty like that. It’s a common thing to do.
With traditional grease lubed bullets it’s not an issues either if kept clean and safe. They can collect dirt and damage the lube or lose line causing flyers

Ohhh I see, good to know. Appreciate all of this helpful info!

 

[DW357]

Seat them to your gun's chamber and magazine. As long as the bullet is seated deep enough to retain the bullet you can fit your COLs as required. Yes, seating deeper than spec at maximum charges isn't wise, but you can err to a degree with less seating depth.
Obviously, you don't want to cram the bullet into the rifling as you force the bolt closed, but you shouldn't need a half-inch of bullet jump either. If you force rounds with excessive COLs into the chamber, you will likely leave the bullet in the chamber as you extract the round. That's a good indication that it's too long.
Note my 6.5mm reloads...

Great info, thanks!

 

[pastera]

Finished processing 30 lbs of 308 once fired.
Deprime, ultrasonic clean, size, trimmed 2.006, deburr and chamfer, washed to remove lube

Complete redneck operation for drying - window screen on top of a dog crate.
The worst part is that I don't even shoot 308. Have the dies so I couldn't talk myself into letting sit in a box completely unloved.

 

[shootymacshootface]

Nice, it looks like Jerry Miculec's set up. I didn't think he really had a need to reload, having all of those sponsors. Maybe for his competition ammo, you can't buy custom loads that will make your gun purr.

 

[DW357]

Certainly could be the bullet profile - not sure. It's apparent that my rifle likes the Nosler 168 gr BTHPs but I'd rather not shoot 20-22 cent bullets for powder puff plinking loads lol. Hopefully I can find a "good enough" load with the 170 gr coated bullets....My range testing yesterday wasn't all that extensive - only shot 5 rounds at 50 yards and 2 rounds at 120 yards. Didn't try varying charge weights, expanding the casemouths etc since I was being lazy. Hopefully do more loading/testing this weekend.

Fooled around with the Lee universal expanding die as well as the lee crimp die late last night. Worked really well with these coated bullets. Also loaded a few rounds using a longer COL. 3.25" puts the groove right in line with the casemouth. Chambered fine in the A3 so now I just need to test them this weekend. Weather is looking awesome tomorrow and sunday - can't wait.

 

[headednorth]

Fooled around with the Lee universal expanding die as well as the lee crimp die late last night. Worked really well with these coated bullets. Also loaded a few rounds using a longer COL. 3.25" puts the groove right in line with the casemouth. Chambered fine in the A3 so now I just need to test them this weekend. Weather is looking awesome tomorrow and sunday - can't wait.

I really need to get off my ass and get casting. I know you bought yours but it's giving me the bug. Did the seminar, bought a bunch of stuff, collected some range scrap, literally have everything except the time and the space. Have to clear out a spot in the basement, run some romex and a short piece of duct out the window and I'll be all set. Need to make an appointment for myself like it was a Drs appointment or something. Never seem to have the time, just have to make time.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

I really need to get off my ass and get casting. I know you bought yours but it's giving me the bug. Did the seminar, bought a bunch of stuff, collected some range scrap, literally have everything except the time and the space. Have to clear out a spot in the basement, run some romex and a short piece of duct out the window and I'll be all set. Need to make an appointment for myself like it was a Drs appointment or something. Never seem to have the time, just have to make time.

Open the bulkhead and run an extension cord. Make it as easy as possible for the first time. If you have to run ducts and wire it’s that much harder to get to. Remove the road block and have at it.
Then the big sets in and you will convert your house to a commercial casting facility.

 

[mac1911]

Had a chance after work to try the coated 30-06 loads in the A3. Accuracy at 50 yards off a rest wasn’t great. I think/hope the accuracy will improve once I use the Lee expanding die to ensure the bullets aren’t getting crammed into the cases and scraping off the coating....
View attachment 218470

Also not sure if the OAL will greatly improve the accuracy with Trailboss. I wasn’t sure of an ideal OAL to use aside from comparing the 160 and 170 gr bullets in my Lyman manual. These are much shorter than the Nosler 168 gr BTHPs I normally use.

Looks very similar to the 160 gr bullet. I went with 3.1” for an OAL and 15 gr of TB. Of course recoil was negligible - very pleasant.
View attachment 218471

Quick 3-shot group with my Trailboss loads using Nosler 168 gr BTHPs. Much better accuracy:
View attachment 218472

Then again I didn’t buy these for match grade accuracy so I need to be realistic with my expectations.

My experience with trail boss is very small windows of accuracy , also a NOTE make sure you adjust your max TB powder charge when you change bullet depth. TB gets up in pressure quick with compression so be careful.
I use trail boss in my mosin with a 314299 gas check design bullet with out the gas check. I have shot several hundred rounds at a whopping 1150ish fps and it took me a while to find the sweet spot. So far TB has shown its best accuracy in my 91/30, arisaka 99, 303 Brit all in that zone between min and mid powder charges.
I'm getting ready to do some more trailboss loading in 30-06 I have a plain base 110 grain bullet I'm going to see what it does. Should be right along the lines of a cat sneeze load.
Going to push them around 1300-1500fps
As far as alloy is concerned water quenched wheel weight alloy will hold up to some good pressures and velocity
As many state its bullet fit and the lube that will really keep leading at bay. When I break out my 1903a3 I use at cmp with cast bullets I will bore scope it. Crazy clean after approx 250 rounds.

 

[shootymacshootface]

My experience with trail boss is very small windows of accuracy , also a NOTE make sure you adjust your max TB powder charge when you change bullet depth. TB gets up in pressure quick with compression so be careful.
I use trail boss in my mosin with a 314299 gas check design bullet with out the gas check. I have shot several hundred rounds at a whopping 1150ish fps and it took me a while to find the sweet spot. So far TB has shown its best accuracy in my 91/30, arisaka 99, 303 Brit all in that zone between min and mid powder charges.
I'm getting ready to do some more trailboss loading in 30-06 I have a plain base 110 grain bullet I'm going to see what it does. Should be right along the lines of a cat sneeze load.
Going to push them around 1300-1500fps
As far as alloy is concerned water quenched wheel weight alloy will hold up to some good pressures and velocity
As many state its bullet fit and the lube that will really keep leading at bay. When I break out my 1903a3 I use at cmp with cast bullets I will bore scope it. Crazy clean after approx 250 rounds.

I agree with everything said here, only difference is that I've never used trailboss. I don't think that it was being made back when I was shooting cast bullet silhouette. IMR4198 was my favorite powder. I had great results with it.

 

[mac1911]

Ahh interesting! Looks like I need to try these at 100 yards next time. I did take a couple shots at some detergent bottles at the 120 yard backstop and did not have a problem hitting those - granted that's a rather large target lol.

I'll also try some lower charge weights to see if they'll group better being subsonic. Plus I need to play around with the Lee expander die...Got a few things to try...

Anytime your projectile goes through the transonic shift< yeah that's my made up shit.....it will loose accuracy.
I'm running my best 30-06 load at 1672fps av 15 feet from muzzle and they by the calculators are 1300fps at 200 and flirting with sub sonics at 300 then it just dives...
One thing some of the cast guys at my club have driven into my head is load for the distance. Your likely to find your best accuracy at the lower end. Don't fret about velocity until you are reaching out.
My gallery load for 25-50 yards is running just a tad over 1050fps

 

[DW357]

My experience with trail boss is very small windows of accuracy , also a NOTE make sure you adjust your max TB powder charge when you change bullet depth. TB gets up in pressure quick with compression so be careful.
I use trail boss in my mosin with a 314299 gas check design bullet with out the gas check. I have shot several hundred rounds at a whopping 1150ish fps and it took me a while to find the sweet spot. So far TB has shown its best accuracy in my 91/30, arisaka 99, 303 Brit all in that zone between min and mid powder charges.
I'm getting ready to do some more trailboss loading in 30-06 I have a plain base 110 grain bullet I'm going to see what it does. Should be right along the lines of a cat sneeze load.
Going to push them around 1300-1500fps
As far as alloy is concerned water quenched wheel weight alloy will hold up to some good pressures and velocity
As many state its bullet fit and the lube that will really keep leading at bay. When I break out my 1903a3 I use at cmp with cast bullets I will bore scope it. Crazy clean after approx 250 rounds.

Glad you posted about the min-mid charges as I thought the complete opposite would be true (near max charges)

Originally loaded some at 14, 15.5, and 17 gr using the longer 3.25” COL then read your post and loaded some at 12.5 gr.

Went to the range yesterday and it was obvious that the lower charge weight loads (12.5 gr) were more accurate. Now I just need to load some at 13 and 13.5 gr to see if it gets any better but I’m not sure I really need to.
12.5 gr at 50 yards 3-shot group:


The groups from the remaining loads, all opened up to 3-3.5”. I was in a rush and there were a couple other shooters so I didn’t have a chance to run a target down to the 100 yard but I had no issues hitting detergent bottles at the 120 yard berm. Seeing that 50 yard group I’m sure it will group decent at 100...

I also chronoed all of the loads and the 12.5 gr loads were averaging 1300 fps. 17 gr averaged 1575 fps.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Tried out running some gas checks to make wadcutter in a Lyman postell mould

Worked great. Not sure on the weight but I’ll check when I get back to a scale.
Should make for a cool little target bullet in the 45/70 or size down for the 45ACP

 

[gerrycaruso]

I loaded some 9mm, .38 spl. and .357 magnum with BE-86. All shot well and accuracy was fine. I've also had good results with this powder in 10mm, .44 spl, .44 magnum, .45 acp and .45 colt. It meters much more uniformly than Unique and velocities are higher than standard pressure loads using Titegroup. I'd like to try it in .44/40 and .455 Webley but can't find any data. I need to give this more thought before I risk damaging a Colt New Service revolver.

 

[mac1911]

Looks like another convert. You can load plenty good ammo with your hand press. I reloaded with one for the first few years and rolled thousands of pistol and rifle rounds. Good for you!

Years ago we had a 50/100 yard lever gun silhouette fun shoot at my club. Many years it was won by a old timer using old school Lee loader in 30/30 right there on the bench. The tie breaker was best 3 shot group on a ace of spades. Many many times he would win with 3 shots touching or inside the spade.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Years ago we had a 50/100 yard lever gun silhouette fun shoot at my club. Many years it was won by a old timer using old school Lee loader in 30/30 right there on the bench. The tie breaker was best 3 shot group on a ace of spades. Many many times he would win with 3 shots touching or inside the spade.

That’s awesome. Mind kind of shooting.

I wish we had a lever gun silhouette match around here.

 

[meh]

I loaded up 21 different light .357 Magnum loads in 4 round sets (4 different bullets, 2 powders, and different charges). Getting ready to see what my new Model 27 Classic likes best, though to be honest, when trying to shoot tight groups with handguns in a rest, I think my vision is probably as much a limiting factor as anything else.

 

[mac1911]

That’s awesome. Mind kind of shooting.

I wish we had a lever gun silhouette match around here.

Ever really took off it was fun though the steel was tough as you needed a good shot placement to knock them over used sheep, rams, bears .

 

[mac1911]

Glad you posted about the min-mid charges as I thought the complete opposite would be true (near max charges)

Originally loaded some at 14, 15.5, and 17 gr using the longer 3.25” COL then read your post and loaded some at 12.5 gr.

Went to the range yesterday and it was obvious that the lower charge weight loads (12.5 gr) were more accurate. Now I just need to load some at 13 and 13.5 gr to see if it gets any better but I’m not sure I really need to.
12.5 gr at 50 yards 3-shot group:
View attachment 218972

The groups from the remaining loads, all opened up to 3-3.5”. I was in a rush and there were a couple other shooters so I didn’t have a chance to run a target down to the 100 yard but I had no issues hitting detergent bottles at the 120 yard berm. Seeing that 50 yard group I’m sure it will group decent at 100...

I also chronoed all of the loads and the 12.5 gr loads were averaging 1300 fps. 17 gr averaged 1575 fps.

You don’t know until you try, my arisaka shoots sub 3” at 100 yards but when I shot the 200 yard match I could hardly hold the black? Also flip side is my 160 grain flat nose tumble lubed 16 grain of 2400 will shoot 3moa at 200 yards but at 50 kinda sucks? I don’t think to much of it. As I was told when punching paper load for your distance.
I’m going to cast up some 130 grain plain base and see what it takes to get them to 1100fps seems to be a sweet spot for me at 100 yard with most of my bullets

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Messing around with the 458 wadcutters I cast last week.
Lubed and sized now. They run about 250 grains.

I don’t think I would load two at full depth but maybe 2 with half of the top one out of the case. I’m going to try to match a bullet to this one in quick load or damn close to it.
I loaded a handful of singles with 12 grains of unique for fun.

 

[shootymacshootface]

Made some tool head stand thingys for the Dillons. Just need to find a place to mount them.

The lathe is over 100 years old!

 

[headednorth]

Open the bulkhead and run an extension cord. Make it as easy as possible for the first time. If you have to run ducts and wire it’s that much harder to get to. Remove the road block and have at it.
Then the big sets in and you will convert your house to a commercial casting facility.

Took your advice today, ran a cord, opened up the bulkhead and set up a fan. Cast around 330- 158 grain .358's and around 250- 155 grain .312's. Lots of wrinkles. Pot temp was +700 so Im assuming I either didnt clean the molds well enough or the molds were not hot enough or a combo of both. I used a q-tip and some acetone to clean the cavities, maybe didnt do a good enough job. Also, as it was my first unsupervised casting, I was going slow. Maybe too slow. Had the valve set to just a bit more than a trickle and while I remembered to just cast and examine later, I was going pretty slow. Maybe the mold never got heated up fully. The 6 cavity .358 was more of an issue than the 2 cavity .312 which after a bit started making nice bullets. I assume the smaller mold heats up quicker.

Anyway, first attempt went ok. Other than some cosmetic defects and just a few non-usable bullets it was good to finally get going. From what I understand wrinkled bullets shoot just as well as showroom quality ones so Im going to coat 'em , size 'em and shoot 'em.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Took your advice today, ran a cord, opened up the bulkhead and set up a fan. Cast around 330- 158 grain .358's and around 250- 155 grain .312's. Lots of wrinkles. Pot temp was +700 so Im assuming I either didnt clean the molds well enough or the molds were not hot enough or a combo of both. I used a q-tip and some acetone to clean the cavities, maybe didnt do a good enough job. Also, as it was my first unsupervised casting, I was going slow. Maybe too slow. Had the valve set to just a bit more than a trickle and while I remembered to just cast and examine later, I was going pretty slow. Maybe the mold never got heated up fully. The 6 cavity .358 was more of an issue than the 2 cavity .312 which after a bit started making nice bullets. I assume the smaller mold heats up quicker.

Anyway, first attempt went ok. Other than some cosmetic defects and just a few non-usable bullets it was good to finally get going. From what I understand wrinkled bullets shoot just as well as showroom quality ones so Im going to coat 'em , size 'em and shoot 'em.

Thats awesome man!
I would take the moulds and scrub them with some hot water and degreaser when you get a chance.
If they're throwing wrinkles its oil or a cold mould. Cast fast until they start to frost then slow down a bit that way you can rule out the oil or burn it off either way.
I would adjust the lead stream to be enough to get a good unbroken stream. Leave a good sprue puddle on top too, that will help with fill out and heat the moulds up quicker.
They will shoot fine no matter how ugly. They'll shoot better just because you made them and thats a better feeling that a fancy tight group from a factory load.

Any pics?