Hey guys
I posted this over on Gunboards, and I'm posting it here as well in hopes to find more owners to contribute to the study![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Not sure if this is exactly the proper place for this but here it goes.
I'm doing a study on a rather rare WWI Relic. The Webley & Scott No1 Mk1 Flare gun which was made by Webley during WWI.
A Little info on them
"In April 1915 Webley started production of their MKVI service revolver and in that same month there was a new design of flare pistol. The barrel diameter was 1 ½ “ and was made from steel rather than brass. This larger bore pistol was designed for use in the trenches and by the Royal Flying Corps (not the Royal Air Force as sometimes incorrectly stated; the RAF did not exist until 1st April 1918 towrd the end of the war [Nov '18]). As there was a huge demand for arms at that time it made a lot of sense for the flare pistols and the service revolver to be a similar design. Indeed, 50% of the component parts of these arms were interchangeable.
The No. 1 Mark 1 Flare pistol had a 10” barrel and facility for a shoulder stock. Flare Pistols were used by the military to pass messages to the artillery and to signal orders to Pilots flying above."
"During the war, Webley produced 48300 1 ½” signal pistols; 26665 No.1s and 21635 No.2s (seen below).
The No 1 & No 2 flare pistols had a common serial number range starting from 1 which was completely separate from the Mk ll and Mk lll flare pistol number range (the brass ones) and also completely different from the MKVl revolver range.
The first order for 50 No.1s was 30th March 1915 and these pistols sold for 65/-. By May the price had dropped to 62/6 and in October to 62/-.
The reason for the price drop was probably because the Government had introduced an excess profits tax on profits that were made from Military contracts."
"The No 2 Mark 2 flare pistol had a 4” barrel and no shoulder stock and was used by RFC pilots. When the aircraft were first used in WW1 pilots used the signal pistol to send messages to the artillery."
After the war some of these surplus Flare Guns were purchased by the Federal Laboratories for use as tear gas launchers. Federal Laboratories scrubbed the makers mark and manufacture date off the left side of the receiver, stamped their logo into the left side of the wood stock, and all the metal parts were then Chromed to protect from corrosion. The words No1 Mk1 and the ser#'s were often left intact however. It is not known how many of these Flare Guns were actually purchased by Federal Laboratories for their use.
Now, as some of you movie guys may know already, the Webley & Scott No1 Mk1 was used as the base for the weapon for the bounty Hunter Boba Fett in the Star Wars films Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi due to the flare guns very unique appearance (the one in Jedi however was a resin copy, so as not to damage the rare flare gun). As such, today these very rare flare guns are highly sought after by both film prop collectors and WWI firearm collectors alike.
Now, where my study begins is that being in possession of one of these rare birds, I've noticed that at some point in time, Webley & Scott used different machining on the grip Lug of the bracket where the ser# is stamped. Its not a big difference, but the consistency of the change made is all over the place in terms of ser#.
On my example, made in 1917, there are 3 45° chamfers around the exterior of this Ser# lug (seen farthest left in the photo below ). In the middle, you will see a resin copy of one made in 1916 that lacks these chamfers completley. It is simply debured and polished to remove the sharp edges. The block is also slightly larger in size compared to the lug on my gun.
I was originally thinking this was an addition made some time between late 1916 and 1917 up until I saw the lug of the 1917 flare gun in the photo farthest to the right, which also lacks these chamfers and is a much higher ser# than my example.
Over the last few days, I've been hunting down any and all photos of these flare guns that I can find. So far there seems to be no rhyme nor reason to the addition of these chamfers as most guns, including all 1915, 1916 copy's and most 1917 copies (all 1917's with higher ser# than my own), seem to lack these chamfers entirely.
So my question to you guys is, IF any of you happen to own one of these very rare birds, including the chrome Federal Laboratory versions, can you post which version of the ser# block you have along with the ser# so that I can attempt to figure out when and where these chamfers were added.
If you are able to include photos that would be fantastic as well.
I don't expect many replies given just how rare these are now adays, but any information you guys are able to add is greatly appreciated
Dana
I posted this over on Gunboards, and I'm posting it here as well in hopes to find more owners to contribute to the study
Not sure if this is exactly the proper place for this but here it goes.
I'm doing a study on a rather rare WWI Relic. The Webley & Scott No1 Mk1 Flare gun which was made by Webley during WWI.
A Little info on them
"In April 1915 Webley started production of their MKVI service revolver and in that same month there was a new design of flare pistol. The barrel diameter was 1 ½ “ and was made from steel rather than brass. This larger bore pistol was designed for use in the trenches and by the Royal Flying Corps (not the Royal Air Force as sometimes incorrectly stated; the RAF did not exist until 1st April 1918 towrd the end of the war [Nov '18]). As there was a huge demand for arms at that time it made a lot of sense for the flare pistols and the service revolver to be a similar design. Indeed, 50% of the component parts of these arms were interchangeable.
The No. 1 Mark 1 Flare pistol had a 10” barrel and facility for a shoulder stock. Flare Pistols were used by the military to pass messages to the artillery and to signal orders to Pilots flying above."
"During the war, Webley produced 48300 1 ½” signal pistols; 26665 No.1s and 21635 No.2s (seen below).
The No 1 & No 2 flare pistols had a common serial number range starting from 1 which was completely separate from the Mk ll and Mk lll flare pistol number range (the brass ones) and also completely different from the MKVl revolver range.
The first order for 50 No.1s was 30th March 1915 and these pistols sold for 65/-. By May the price had dropped to 62/6 and in October to 62/-.
The reason for the price drop was probably because the Government had introduced an excess profits tax on profits that were made from Military contracts."
"The No 2 Mark 2 flare pistol had a 4” barrel and no shoulder stock and was used by RFC pilots. When the aircraft were first used in WW1 pilots used the signal pistol to send messages to the artillery."
After the war some of these surplus Flare Guns were purchased by the Federal Laboratories for use as tear gas launchers. Federal Laboratories scrubbed the makers mark and manufacture date off the left side of the receiver, stamped their logo into the left side of the wood stock, and all the metal parts were then Chromed to protect from corrosion. The words No1 Mk1 and the ser#'s were often left intact however. It is not known how many of these Flare Guns were actually purchased by Federal Laboratories for their use.
Now, as some of you movie guys may know already, the Webley & Scott No1 Mk1 was used as the base for the weapon for the bounty Hunter Boba Fett in the Star Wars films Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi due to the flare guns very unique appearance (the one in Jedi however was a resin copy, so as not to damage the rare flare gun). As such, today these very rare flare guns are highly sought after by both film prop collectors and WWI firearm collectors alike.
Now, where my study begins is that being in possession of one of these rare birds, I've noticed that at some point in time, Webley & Scott used different machining on the grip Lug of the bracket where the ser# is stamped. Its not a big difference, but the consistency of the change made is all over the place in terms of ser#.
On my example, made in 1917, there are 3 45° chamfers around the exterior of this Ser# lug (seen farthest left in the photo below ). In the middle, you will see a resin copy of one made in 1916 that lacks these chamfers completley. It is simply debured and polished to remove the sharp edges. The block is also slightly larger in size compared to the lug on my gun.
I was originally thinking this was an addition made some time between late 1916 and 1917 up until I saw the lug of the 1917 flare gun in the photo farthest to the right, which also lacks these chamfers and is a much higher ser# than my example.
Over the last few days, I've been hunting down any and all photos of these flare guns that I can find. So far there seems to be no rhyme nor reason to the addition of these chamfers as most guns, including all 1915, 1916 copy's and most 1917 copies (all 1917's with higher ser# than my own), seem to lack these chamfers entirely.
So my question to you guys is, IF any of you happen to own one of these very rare birds, including the chrome Federal Laboratory versions, can you post which version of the ser# block you have along with the ser# so that I can attempt to figure out when and where these chamfers were added.
If you are able to include photos that would be fantastic as well.
I don't expect many replies given just how rare these are now adays, but any information you guys are able to add is greatly appreciated
Dana
