Washinton DC expands list of allowed guns

[richc]

Article says they did so to avoid further lawsuits:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/19/AR2009061901822.html?wprss=rss_metro

Interesting quote:

"To avoid that litigation, Attorney General Peter Nickles said the city decided to expand its list of legal weapons to include those listed on Maryland's and Massachusetts's "safe gun rosters." "

 

[terraformer]

This is a dupe but the other thread went no where. What I don't get is, how the hell is our list not arbitrary? Sig p232? two-tones not available. Most sigs are not available in anything but the classic form. The S&W 22A? Change the grips and it is not allowed??? WTF?

 

[mikem317]

Huh. I wonder why their roster is pegged to Massachusetts' EOPS list (of all places).

 

[pdm]

Kinda stuns me that anyone would look at MA's list as an expansion.

 

[Titan]

Huh. I wonder why their roster is pegged to Massachusetts' EOPS list (of all places).

I suspect that it's because the MA list is an 'accepted' (withstood the test of time) list of restricted feature hand guns from manufacturers that are amenable to being restricted.

Adopting the MA list allows them to point to an 'accepted' source and avoid their own liability by beginning a whole new list and set of criteria.

If there have been any legal challenges to the MA list(s), I'm not aware of them....must have been long ago.
.

 

[Mass-diver]

If there have been any legal challenges to the MA list(s), I'm not aware of them....must have been long ago.
.

I'm not aware of any....maybe some day. From what I have read, with enough cash, there is room for legitimate challenge to "the list" and the AG rules

 

[Squished]

This is a dupe but the other thread went no where. What I don't get is, how the hell is our list not arbitrary? Sig p232? two-tones not available. Most sigs are not available in anything but the classic form. The S&W 22A? Change the grips and it is not allowed??? WTF?

I get a kick out of this every time. Sig 226 is the perfect example.

Add a Blackwater logo? ILLEGAL. (Blackwater)
Add a Navy logo? ILLEGAL. (Navy)
Change the color to desert tan? ILLEGAL. (Combat)
Change some accessories to stainless? ILLEGAL. (Equinox)
Change it to stainless finish? ILLEGAL (Elite)

The frigging gun is the same damn thing, shoots the same bullets.

That list is a load of garbage.

 

[terraformer]

I suspect that it's because the MA list is an 'accepted' (withstood the test of time) list of restricted feature hand guns from manufacturers that are amenable to being restricted.

Adopting the MA list allows them to point to an 'accepted' source and avoid their own liability by beginning a whole new list and set of criteria.

If there have been any legal challenges to the MA list(s), I'm not aware of them....must have been long ago.
.

It was challenged way back, as were the AG regs but a legal snafu sunk it premature. The interesting thing, as I see it, is that DC adopting these opens up an avenue for challenging this that is immune from that legal snafu. But hopefully one of our legal beagles will weigh in.

 

[In_God_We_Trust]

I get a kick out of this every time. Sig 226 is the perfect example.

Add a Blackwater logo? ILLEGAL. (Blackwater)
Add a Navy logo? ILLEGAL. (Navy)
Change the color to desert tan? ILLEGAL. (Combat)
Change some accessories to stainless? ILLEGAL. (Equinox)
Change it to stainless finish? ILLEGAL (Elite)

The frigging gun is the same damn thing, shoots the same bullets.

That list is a load of garbage.

Have you not learned ANYTHING??!!

It is the features that make the gun evil.

 

[calsdad]

You guys are missing this:

If Washington D.C. has now linked to the MA EOPS list as to what they consider "acceptable" - that does one of two things: opens up the MA list to a real challenge (because Washington D.C. makes it more likely to be a test case) - or - it means that the MA list is seen as a good unchallenged precedent to allow govt. to implement an approved list, in other places other than MA.


It also goes to show how much influence the liberal nitwit policies in MA have over Washington politics. Which is why so many people across the country hate Ma**h***achusetts.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I get a kick out of this every time. Sig 226 is the perfect example.

Add a Blackwater logo? ILLEGAL. (Blackwater)
Add a Navy logo? ILLEGAL. (Navy)
Change the color to desert tan? ILLEGAL. (Combat)
Change some accessories to stainless? ILLEGAL. (Equinox)
Change it to stainless finish? ILLEGAL (Elite)

The frigging gun is the same damn thing, shoots the same bullets.

That list is a load of garbage.

Actually, I don't think SigSauer is a good example. The Mass compliant Sigs are in fact different from other models, they have the "Ma**h***" in the barrel. Their may be other differences as well including packaging to include 10 round mags.

It may be, however, that making these other versions Mass complient is simply a matter of dropping in a new barrel and shipping with the 10 rnd mags. But I'm not sure.

 

[Squished]

Actually, I don't think SigSauer is a good example. The Mass compliant Sigs are in fact different from other models, they have the "Ma**h***" in the barrel. Their may be other differences as well including packaging to include 10 round mags.

It may be, however, that making these other versions Mass complient is simply a matter of dropping in a new barrel and shipping with the 10 rnd mags. But I'm not sure.

Don't forget too, with all new MA compliant Sigs, you get that fancy new plastic guide rod and hollow retaining pins. PLASTIC GUIDE ROD IN A $900+ GUN!!!!!

Appalling, Sig should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Titan]

You guys are missing this:

If Washington D.C. has now linked to the MA EOPS list as to what they consider "acceptable" - that does one of two things: opens up the MA list to a real challenge (because Washington D.C. makes it more likely to be a test case) - or - it means that the MA list is seen as a good unchallenged precedent to allow govt. to implement an approved list, in other places other than MA.


It also goes to show how much influence the liberal nitwit policies in MA have over Washington politics. Which is why so many people across the country hate Ma**h***achusetts.

Any state that is totally dominated by Democrats should be viewed by everyone as a 'sandbox' for experimenting with the most extreme left wing policies and methods.

MA, CA, NJ, NY, CT, IL, etc illustrate what one gets with unchecked leftist ideology.


Unfortunately with a national media that is complicit in the deception, we stand to see these policies spread nationally under one party rule.
Watch for the end of state's rights as more and more policy changes occur (unchecked) at the national level.

Once our illegals become Democrats, there will be virtually NOTHING that can be done about any of this. It is already nearly impossible for a national Conservative candidate to get over the existing hurdles to winning election.

...End of rant.
.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

Any state that is totally dominated by Democrats should be viewed by everyone as a 'sandbox' for experimenting with the most extreme left wing policies and methods.

MA, CA, NJ, NY, CT, IL, etc illustrate what one gets with unchecked leftist ideology.


Unfortunately with a national media that is complicit in the deception, we stand to see these policies spread nationally under one party rule.
Watch for the end of state's rights as more and more policy changes occur (unchecked) at the national level.

Once our illegals become Democrats, there will be virtually NOTHING that can be done about any of this. It is already nearly impossible for a national Conservative candidate to get over the existing hurdles to winning election.

...End of rant.
.

............And then the fight started.......

If you think that the rest of this country is going to go off peacefully into the night on the "states rights issue" you are sadly misinformed.

There will be another civil war here and for the very same reasons, because people are too stupid to learn from the mistakes of the past and because the nature of man has not changed since the beginning of time.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

You guys are missing this:

If Washington D.C. has now linked to the MA EOPS list as to what they consider "acceptable" - that does one of two things: opens up the MA list to a real challenge (because Washington D.C. makes it more likely to be a test case) - or - it means that the MA list is seen as a good unchallenged precedent to allow govt. to implement an approved list, in other places other than MA.


It also goes to show how much influence the liberal nitwit policies in MA have over Washington politics. Which is why so many people across the country hate Ma**h***achusetts.

Good point......and they do hate Massachusetts and everything it stands for and mostly in the way of.......their liberty.

Hmmmm........you think that the Kennedy name was EVER mentioned in any of the discussion of this whole clusterf***?

 

[calsdad]

............And then the fight started.......

If you think that the rest of this country is going to go off peacefully into the night on the "states rights issue" you are sadly misinformed.

There will be another civil war here and for the very same reasons, because people are too stupid to learn from the mistakes of the past and because the nature of man has not changed since the beginning of time.

For me at least - that's pretty much what it has come down to. It's plainly obvious that our federal government is not a protector of my rights - my freedoms, or my financial well being. It's also plainly obvious that there is a sizable contingent of our population that seems to think that they are best served by screwing over the rest of the population (by using the Federal govt. to extract sustenenance for them and to them).

We have asked them politely to stop. We have voted, petitioned, protested, etc. It doesn't work anymore. This became plainly obvious to me beyond a shadow of a doubt of argument when the TARP (bank bailout bill) passed. Something like 80% of the people were opposed - it was a massive amount of money - and they did it pretty much without debate. All under the excuse that it was needed or everything would collapse. Well it didn't work - and things are still collapsing. It's just not blaringly obvious to the rubes yet.

All of this is why I actually HOPE FOR a continued economic collapse. It's what will finally drag us up to a decision point. As the economy continues to go down - the powers that be will feel compelled to steal even more. The leeches will cry for more - and those of us who actually work for a living will get squeezed even more. Sooner or later rock will be squeezed as far as it can go and there will be no more blood.

Then there will a "problem".

 

[vellnueve]

I suspect that it's because the MA list is an 'accepted' (withstood the test of time) list of restricted feature hand guns from manufacturers that are amenable to being restricted.

Adopting the MA list allows them to point to an 'accepted' source and avoid their own liability by beginning a whole new list and set of criteria.

If there have been any legal challenges to the MA list(s), I'm not aware of them....must have been long ago.
.

EOPS list isn't really a restricted feature list, it's just a list of handguns that have been tested for certain standards with regards to drop testing, etc. Any quality modern handgun should pass them.

The AG's regulations and the effective "list" of guns that can't be sold in MA even though they're EOPS approved, that's much more restrictive.

 

[Jedhed]

Now we just need to have Mass expand it's approved list to that of New Hampshire.

 

[KMaurer]

Read the article more carefully. There's no rational way to consider DC's use of the Massachusetts list as a restriction on the firearms that are legally available to residents. They originally started to develop a (very short) list of their own, then backed off and decided to use California's list, and finally added both Maryland's and Massachusetts' lists. The result is that if a gun is on any one of the lists, it's allowed. Most everything that's on the Massachusetts list is also on the California list, but the move did expand the overall list slightly. Of course, most of us will only be satisfied when "the list" is simplified to include every gun ever made in the past, currently being made, or that might possibly be made in the future.

Ken

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

Read the article more carefully. There's no rational way to consider DC's use of the Massachusetts list as a restriction on the firearms that are legally available to residents. They originally started to develop a (very short) list of their own, then backed off and decided to use California's list, and finally added both Maryland's and Massachusetts' lists. The result is that if a gun is on any one of the lists, it's allowed. Most everything that's on the Massachusetts list is also on the California list, but the move did expand the overall list slightly. Of course, most of us will only be satisfied when "the list" is simplified to include every gun ever made in the past, currently being made, or that might possibly be made in the future.

Ken

As it should be.

 

[Titan]

............And then the fight started.......

If you think that the rest of this country is going to go off peacefully into the night on the "states rights issue" you are sadly misinformed.

There will be another civil war here and for the very same reasons, because people are too stupid to learn from the mistakes of the past and because the nature of man has not changed since the beginning of time.

I sure hope you're right...that people will FIGHT!

I know I will.
.

 

[Titan]

EOPS list isn't really a restricted feature list, it's just a list of handguns that have been tested for certain standards with regards to drop testing, etc. Any quality modern handgun should pass them.

The AG's regulations and the effective "list" of guns that can't be sold in MA even though they're EOPS approved, that's much more restrictive.

I understand that 'strictly speaking', it's not a list of restricted features, but every gun on the list, meets a set of restrictive criteria...
examples...
10 lb trigger pull or similar 'child proof' feature set.
Loaded round indicator
Passed 'drop test'
etc.

It's a list of guns that meet a range of specific criteria and have been submitted for testing.

While some guns not on the list, might pass, MANY would not. There are LOTS of quality hand guns that don't have a 'loaded round' indicator, or an 'acceptable' trigger pull, for example.


So, from a practical perspective it IS a list of guns with 'MA approved' features.

.

 

[vellnueve]

I understand that 'strictly speaking', it's not a list of restricted features, but every gun on the list, meets a set of restrictive criteria...
examples...
10 lb trigger pull or similar 'child proof' feature set.
Loaded round indicator
Passed 'drop test'
etc.

It's a list of guns that meet a range of specific criteria and have been submitted for testing.

While some guns not on the list, might pass, MANY would not. There are LOTS of quality hand guns that don't have a 'loaded round' indicator, or an 'acceptable' trigger pull, for example.


So, from a practical perspective it IS a list of guns with 'MA approved' features.

.

Um...

The 10 pound trigger thing is an AG rule. The LCI is a AG rule. Neither are covered by the EOPS list.

As for the drop test, most modern handguns should pass that easily.

Not where DC should be, but it's on the right track at least, in that there's more models allowed now.

 

[GSG]

Kinda stuns me that anyone would look at MA's list as an expansion.

No kidding.

Of course, most of us will only be satisfied when "the list" is simplified to include every gun ever made in the past, currently being made, or that might possibly be made in the future.

The fact that there's a list at all dis-satisfies me.

 

[Titan]

Um...

The 10 pound trigger thing is an AG rule. The LCI is a AG rule. Neither are covered by the EOPS list.

As for the drop test, most modern handguns should pass that easily.

Not where DC should be, but it's on the right track at least, in that there's more models allowed now.

Vellnueve,

Of course you're technically correct, but clearly there are guns NOT on the EOPS list because they can't/wouldn't meet AG restrictions.

...Springfield Armory, Taurus, Wilson Combat, Detonics, etc. etc.

.

 

[sig2009]

I get a kick out of this every time. Sig 226 is the perfect example.

Add a Blackwater logo? ILLEGAL. (Blackwater)
Add a Navy logo? ILLEGAL. (Navy)
Change the color to desert tan? ILLEGAL. (Combat)
Change some accessories to stainless? ILLEGAL. (Equinox)
Change it to stainless finish? ILLEGAL (Elite)

The frigging gun is the same damn thing, shoots the same bullets.

That list is a load of garbage.

Sounds like you guys need some serious lawsuits against the state.

 

[terraformer]

Sounds like you guys need some serious lawsuits against the state.

They were shut down because of a legal screwup.
http://www.goal.org/news/agfraud/fraudhome.html
Good read.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Don't forget too, with all new MA compliant Sigs, you get that fancy new plastic guide rod and hollow retaining pins. PLASTIC GUIDE ROD IN A $900+ GUN!!!!!

Appalling, Sig should be ashamed of themselves.

I wouldn't know, I only buy older Sigs

 

[sig2009]

They were shut down because of a legal screwup.
http://www.goal.org/news/agfraud/fraudhome.html
Good read.

So bring it up again.

 

[KMaurer]

The fact that there's a list at all dis-satisfies me.

I'm pissed that I can't send my granddaughter down to the store and have her bring me back an MP5SD-N1 without any paper other than cash involved. Still, the fact that DC added the Mass list expands rather than restricts the availability of firearms there (assuming there's anybody licensed to sell guns there).

Ken