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This may sound silly, but I read that if you don't let the used brass hit the ground (e.g. revolvers) after firing, cleaning the cases is almost unnecessary. Is that true?
This may sound silly, but I read that if you don't let the used brass hit the ground (e.g. revolvers) after firing, cleaning the cases is almost unnecessary. Is that true?
Why is it a PITA, and how is it normally done?You definitely should spend the extra money for carbide dies, however - lubing, and more specifically removing the lube after resizing (as has to be done for rifle cases) - is a real PITA.
I have been reading online for a couple of hours now, and the more I edumacate myself on this the more confused I become. Is that normal?You CAN load rifle ammo on a progressive. You just have to do ALL the case prep (resize/deprime, trim, chamfer) first.
That done, .223 goes through my 550 fine.
This may sound silly, but I read that if you don't let the used brass hit the ground (e.g. revolvers) after firing, cleaning the cases is almost unnecessary. Is that true?
Why is it a PITA, and how is it normally done?
Okay Dick, I think I understand. Is this problem alleviated completely with the use of carbide die sets? Are they available for rifle and pistol?With conventional (non-carbide) dies, the case will stick to the die during resizing unless it's lubricated. Most resizing lubes are heavy greasy liquids that are applied to something that looks like a stamp pad - the cases are rolled across the pad to give them a thin layer of lube. That part isn't a big deal, but after sizing you need to remove the lube somehow and none of the various methods (hand wiping, solvent, tumbling) is easy, and all are another step in the reloading process. There's a spray-on lube that's supposed to make the whole thing easier - the only stuck case I've ever had in my life resulted from trying to use it. That stuff went right in the trash.
Yes, with the small exception noted below.Is this problem alleviated completely with the use of carbide die sets?
They're generally available only for straight-sided cases, which are more common in pistol calibers, but are also used for some rifle calibers (e.g, .30 Carbine, .444 Marlin). You can also get carbide dies for 9mm, which has a slight taper, but they're a bit more expensive. I believe Dillon, and perhaps others, make carbide dies at considerable extra cost for some high-volume bottleneck rifle cases such as .223 Rem, but I seem to recall they also advise lubing anyway, which would seem to defeat the purpose (I have no direct experience).Are they available for rifle and pistol?
There are two common ways of case-trimming. The first involves a special die - the resized case is put up into the die and, if it needs trimming, the brass at the case mouth will extend slightly out of the top of the die, and then it's trimmed with a file. The better way involves a special tool that looks and works like a miniature lathe. It's not particularly expensive and you can find them in any reloading supply catalog. Generally, straight-sided pistol cases don't require trimming; bottleneck rifle cases will need to be trimmed every few firings because the greater pressures and the design of the case cause it to elongate when fired. It's important not to let your cases get too long because the extra length can contact the forcing cone and not allow the bullet to release properly, which raises pressures. You determine if your cases need trimming by running them through a go/no-go gauge or (better) using a caliper adjusted according to dimensions that are provided in reloading guides.firearmfaq.com had a relatively good (and well-illustrated) tutorial on reloading, and he talks about case trimming. Can that be done on a press with a certain die, or is it always a separate process?
I just checked on Midway, they have a 4-die 9mm set, the sizing and factory-crimp dies are carbide -- would that be all that I need?They're generally available only for straight-sided cases, which are more common in pistol calibers, but are also used for some rifle calibers (e.g, .30 Carbine, .444 Marlin). You can also get carbide dies for 9mm, which has a slight taper, but they're a bit more expensive. I believe Dillon, and perhaps others, make carbide dies at considerable extra cost for some high-volume bottleneck rifle cases such as .223 Rem, but I seem to recall they also advise lubing anyway, which would seem to defeat the purpose (I have no direct experience).
I know this is like asking how long a piece of string is, but how often would you say 9mm pistol cases require re-trimming? Would you see it in 10% of your cases, 40% or 75%? The reason I ask is that seemingly few "intro to reloading" articles mention it. But it's almost essential for rifle rounds, right?There are two common ways of case-trimming. The first involves a special die - the resized case is put up into the die and, if it needs trimming, the brass at the case mouth will extend slightly out of the top of the die, and then it's trimmed with a file. The better way involves a special tool that looks and works like a miniature lathe. It's not particularly expensive and you can find them in any reloading supply catalog. Generally, straight-sided pistol cases don't require trimming; bottleneck rifle cases will need to be trimmed every few firings because the greater pressures and the design of the case cause it to elongate when fired. It's important not to let your cases get too long because the extra length can contact the forcing cone and not allow the bullet to release properly, which raises pressures. You determine if your cases need trimming by running them through a go/no-go gauge or (better) using a caliper adjusted according to dimensions that are provided in reloading guides.
I have been reading online for a couple of hours now, and the more I edumacate myself on this the more confused I become. Is that normal?
With rifle rounds, where do you do the case prep -- and with what tools?
I just checked on Midway, they have a 4-die 9mm set, the sizing and factory-crimp dies are carbide -- would that be all that I need?
I know this is like asking how long a piece of string is, but how often would you say 9mm pistol cases require re-trimming? Would you see it in 10% of your cases, 40% or 75%? The reason I ask is that seemingly few "intro to reloading" articles mention it. But it's almost essential for rifle rounds, right?
Thanks for this C-pher, it was the information I was looking for. Why is it that I can't accomplish some of these steps -- like de-priming and reaming -- with a correct set of dies on a turret press? I don't think I can figure out why...You have to get a trimmer which looks like a small medieval device with a vice like end and a crank with a bit that takes off brass to make it the length that you need for your rifle. Every time you shoot the expansion lengthens the brass.
The de-primer I think looks the same, but pokes out the primer. And then if I'm not mistaken you have to ream out the primer hole...that's another hand held tool.
And that's just two or so steps... I don't reload rifle... But from watching buddies, that's some of the steps that they do...
Okay, going by the percentages you're talking about gives me some idea as to why it's not mentioned; especially when 9mm brass is plentiful enough to find. Maybe the .500S&W guys need to do it a lot more..!You may never need to trim them. If it were me (caveat: I load about 20 different cartridges, but not 9mm), I'd just check them with a gauge periodically and throw out any that exceed the maximum length (.7540 inches, according to my Speer manual). There's plenty of once-fired 9mm brass lying around at every range, so there's no need to "save" it by trimming, and you may find that you never need to trim anyway - I don't recall every trimming pistol brass, but I'm sure somebody somewhere has.
If it's not too much trouble, Dick, would you be able to post your "workflow" in steps? Like this:With regard to rifle brass, I carefully check every piece after resizing and find that I need to trim about every 4 or 5 firings. After 2 or 3 trimmings I discard the case - the brass that you're trimming has to come from somewhere, and that reduces the case thickness and, therefore, strength.
The de-primer I think looks the same, but pokes out the primer. And then if I'm not mistaken you have to ream out the primer hole...that's another hand held tool.
And that's just two or so steps... I don't reload rifle... But from watching buddies, that's some of the steps that they do...
Dick: Just FYI, the rifle rounds I would (well, my brother-in-law) want to reloading are 7.62x51 NATO. Which I'm sure I can do with dies for a .308?
If it's not too much trouble, Dick, would you be able to post your "workflow" in steps?
Just for plinking, in this case...Yes, .308 dies. As Dick stated, it depends on whether you are intending to reload for precision accuracy, i.e. long-range, or just for plinking and general purposes.
That's terrific, Dick, thanks! If it's not too much trouble, would you be able to tell me what steps are added where (and how) for rifle rounds? After that, I should pretty much be all set! I hopeOK. This is my procedure for loading pistol rounds on my single-stage press. This applies to cases that headspace on the case mouth (like your 9mm or my .45 ACP):
1. Clean brass (tumbler or vibratory cleaner)
2. Resize and decap (first die - carbide)
3. Expand and slightly bell neck (second die)
4. Insert primers (I have a separate little tool for this)
5. Charge powder (from powder measure)
6. Seat bullet (third die)
7. Crimp (fourth die - taper crimp)
I've been poking around my local libraries for one, but I haven't found a copy yet. I might rent a DVD, like GTO suggests.BTW, there are many books (reloading manuals and others) out there that explain all this and have photos, etc. I'm happy to provide the info, but they'd provide much more detail for you.
This may sound silly, but I read that if you don't let the used brass hit the ground (e.g. revolvers) after firing, cleaning the cases is almost unnecessary. Is that true?
Thanks for this C-pher, it was the information I was looking for. Why is it that I can't accomplish some of these steps -- like de-priming and reaming -- with a correct set of dies on a turret press? I don't think I can figure out why...
Okay, going by the percentages you're talking about gives me some idea as to why it's not mentioned; especially when 9mm brass is plentiful enough to find. Maybe the .500S&W guys need to do it a lot more..!
If it's not too much trouble, Dick, would you be able to post your "workflow" in steps? Like this:
* clean round
* de-prime with de-priming tool
* lube with oil + cloth
* size brass with sizing tool
* charge brass on press with charge die
etc., so I can get a better idea of the steps involved and what tools are required? It would, hopefully, serve to confuse me significantly less than I am already
If it's not too much trouble, would you be able to tell me what steps are added where (and how) for rifle rounds?
My steps for competition match rifle rounds: ...
Great post TonyD. I haven't started reloading for rifle yet, but I plan to start soon. I'm going to print your post and tape it up on the wall behind my bench.
Most of the "stretch" actully comes from Full Length sizing and not from firing. And that stretch occurs from the case head just above the web. After you have a few firings on a piece of brass you can check the inside of the case with a paper clip and feel for sidewall "thinning".
It is true that the effect of stretching bottleneck cases tends to show up in case separations just above the head, and it is true that full length sizing tends to make case stretch more likely (all other things being equal), it is not the sizing itself that causes the cases to stretch, but rather what happens when you fire a full-length sized case.