Want to get into reloading... where to start?

[Boston-Irish]

Hey Guys,
I was thinking of making the leap into reloading, but don't know where to start. I saw that Lee has a deal that if you buy the book you get the press free.
Dillion has an "all in one" kit but it is expensive.
Can you guys point me in the right direction?
Thanks!

 

[Lugnut]

Oh boy. I started with a complete RCBS kit- single stage. I still have it and love it. It's slow going but it's been a great learning process and purchased it with the thought that I will always have it as a good back up or deprimer.

I'm sure at some point I'll want more volume- not sure if Dillion is the way or maybe Hornady. Hornady has a great progressive auto indexing setup that now offers 1000 free bullets too.

What do you want/need? Quantity production?

 

[Boston-Irish]

What I really want is a "some-what idiot proof" simple to learn system.
I shoot alot of 45acp amd 10mm and now 500S&W.
So I guess simple is more important than speed.
Thanks

 

[Adam_MA]

If you are looking at simple to get you going and used to the reloading process, by all means get yourself a single stage press. However, you may also want to look into a turret press as well. Turret presses will give you additional speed (when you are ready to step it up) but they also give you the simplicity of a single stage press. You set your dies up once, then lock them into the die plate, and leave them alone. For reloading straight walled pistol cases, a single stage press will not be lightning fast, but if you do things one step at a time, when it comes time to charge the cases with powder, and seat the bullet, you can do 200 rounds in an hour.

Some people will tell you that Lee presses are junk. They got a bad reputation for failures, and nonexistent quality control. That was 10 years ago! A LOT has changed since then. I have 3 Lee presses at home, and when it comes time to buy another press for a different specific function, I will buy another Lee press without hesitation.

 

[number9]

What's the cost of reloading 9mm versus just buying it? I understand with .45s and the like there may be a significant cost benefit... but what about the much cheaper 9mm? It must (almost!) be like reloading .22LR

 

[Lugnut]

9MM
Primers (1000) $21
Bullets (1000) $55
Powder (Est/1000) $10
Used brass Free
Total $86

Depending on how you value your time and what you pay for bullets (I use FMJ) you can save some good money IMO. Most gun shops are charging around $8 a box of 50 now- that's $160/1000.

 

[Dick]

You've basically got three cost elements when you reload a pistol cartridge - primer, powder, and bullet. A brick of 1000 primers will cost somewhere around $18 or so, so let's call that $20, which equates to 2 cents for each primer. A pound of powder is 7000 grains in weight, and (to make it simple) a typical 9mm load will use about 7 grains (NOTE: this is not a load recipe - consult a reputable manual), so you'll get 1000 loads out of a pound, which costs about $17 or so, so let's call that $20 also, for another 2 cents for powder. So far, that's 4 cents per round.

Bullet costs can be all over the map, but for plinking purposes pretty much any jacketed bullet will do, and you should be able to find something suitable for around $50 per thousand, so that's another 5 cents per round, for a grand total of 9 cents each (maybe a bit less), or $4.50 a box of 50. I don't shoot 9mm and I haven't paid any attention to the cost of factory ammo for the last 30 years or so, so I don't know how that compares to discount factory load costs.

Note that for the .45 everything except the bullet will be the same, and bullets will be approximately double.

That of course assumes that you get your brass free, and there seems to be a lot of once-fired 9mm brass lying around most ranges. It also doesn't allow for the amortization of your equipment costs, but if you reload often enough and long enough those can get pretty close to zero per round. But . . . it also doesn't factor in the enjoyment of reloading, the extension of your hobby into other areas, and the pride you can take in rolling your own. For me, all of that is worth quite a bit.

 

[highlander]

I started with the "old" Lee Loader 3 or 4 piece setup all you needed was a plastic hammer. you had a die that you resized the case with by driving it into the die you don't want to know how you primed the case. It was simple,cheap 20rds an hour.
I agree with Adam get a single stage kit from RCBS,Lyman or Redding at least2 manuals 1 being the Lyman 48th edition.
If you know someone that reloads ask to come over and watch the process. Reloading is not that tough you don't have to be a rocket scientist but its not a job for dummies either

 

[adweisbe]

I can't tell you the best way to start, but I can tell you how I chose to start.

I waited for a used press to come up for sale on glocktalk/thehighroad/1911forum/m1911.org/northeastshooters/sigforum/smithwessonforum
Can you tell I browse many different classifieds? Two or three come up for sale each month, when you get into the 500 dollar range they start including things like tumblers and scales. Glocktalk's Misc. gun stuff forum seems to be veritable reloading treasure trove.

320 dollars got me a 15 year old dillon square deal B with 9MM, .45ACP, and .357/.38 special dies. Value wise the dies are about $100 a piece, the press runs fine and Dillon sent me some replacement parts no questions asked. I paid more than you have to... you could step up to a 550 or 650, but I wanted the SDB because of the auto-indexing (less likely to double charge). At some point I will by another SDB so I can have my two high volume calibers ready to load immediately, I can also pick up dies for an infrequently shot caliber (I am thinking .44 mag) along with the press.

I bought the Speer reloading manual which was mostly useless as I gathered my information from forums and it doesn't have loadings for many different powder/bullet combinations. I have the Lyman manual incoming. I bought a Lee safety scale for 12 dollars (more than adequate, consistent and accurate).

The biggest expense after that was the vibratory tumbler which was on sale at midway for 70 or so dollars, I got the Frankford arsenal model, it came with media, polish, and a bucket and media separator. Great deal. I also got the RCBS kinetic bullet puller (there is actually a picture of it in the speer manual) along with a GOOD pair of calipers. I recommend good calipers, so much easier to read and work with, dial is fine, don't see why people find it so hard to use. I bought a pair of sears craftsman dial calipers, I overspent 10 or 15 dollars in my estimation.

Information wise, I read many forums and have a knack for distinguishing between facts that I know to be true and those that might be true but need verification... I am also having a pretty easy time diagnosing issues in the press and adjusting things, It seems like such a simple natural process unlike say... the operation of a locked breech pistol under recoil.

Some links:
Press:
http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=618169
Manuals:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=823498
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=636126
Calipers:
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?pid=00940778000&vertical=Sears&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
Bullet puller:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=630146
Tumbler:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=816895
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=668307

You should also look into finding a good bench to mount it too, this is very important, you may also need a large number of bullets to help weigh the bench down (I do).

Regarding the cost of reloading, 9 cents a round is a good benchmark, you can do less (I do). I only need 3 grains of powder for my mousefart 147 grain 9MM load.

 

[number9]

Lugnut: Thanks for the figures, that's what I was looking for! Thanks

Dick: Yet again you seem to be helping me out... I must buy you beer sometime I knew enough to know the equipment needed was going to be essentially the same as with your post on reloading shot shells, though obviously with some different terminology. I've seen boxes of 9mm on special for around $5.50, which is only slightly more than the cost of reloading; but I haven't watched prices long enough to see how much it "normally" costs. But, as you say, there is the satisfaction (and also precision) of doing it yourself to take into account...

 

[EddieCoyle]

Start with a progressive!!

I totally disagree with the "start with a single stage to learn how the process works" crowd. Boston Irish, if you're loading for pistol by all means get a progressive press and don't look back.

First of all, I should start with the standard disclaimer (which also happens to be good advice): you should first get some reloading manuals (Lyman, Lee, Speer, Hornady) and also a book called "The ABC's of Reloading". Read them all and learn how it is supposed to be done.

Then get a good high quality progressive press and skip the whole single stage phase. Anything you need to learn, you can learn on a progressive press. If you can afford it, start with a Dillon 650 - it is a "lifetime" machine and you will never need a better reloader. If the price for that is too high, think about a Hornady L-N-L AP. Both of these presses are auto-indexing, meaning that the cases are automatically advanced each time you pull the handle. This makes it damn near impossible to double-charge a case.

I made the mistake of starting with a Lee Aniversary kit because a bunch of people told me that I should start with a single stage and "work my way up". This was absolute bulls**t.

I think many people have read the "you-should-start-off-with-a-single-stage" mantra so many times that they simply regurgitate it as fact. YOU DON'T NEED TO DO THAT!!! If you can afford it, you should NOT start out with a single stage press. It's boring and tedious to load lots of ammo on a single stage press. You can learn everything you need to know, while making lots of ammo, on a progressive press. It is not that hard of a concept to master. You decap, resize, re-pime, bell, fill with powder, insert bullet, and crimp. You can do each of those operations one step at a time for every round on a single stage, or do all of them all at once on a progressive reloader with each pull of the handle. There is no need to learn on a single stage. All of your learning can be done on a progressive reloading press.

I bought the Lee Aniverary Kit based on advice I got from a web forum (not this one). To put it in a nutshell, it sucked. The press is sub-standard, the scale was hard to use, and the accesories were cheap.

Before I get flamed, I know you can make fantastic ammo using this kit, or using a Lee turret press. However, if I were to offer you users of these devices a free upgrade to a high quality progressive press, would you pass it up?

I'm tired of people offering up a single-stage or turret presses as a more noble way to reload. The reason you're using these is because you either couldn't or wouldn't spring for a progressive machine. If you can afford them, progressive presses are better.

I don't mean to put too fine a point on it, but I could've afforded a good progressive press and yet, when I asked, I was persuaded to buy a lesser quality machine to "start out with". YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Anyone that is able or willing to invest in a better press and setup: don't waste your time and money on a cheap piece of marginal junk!

I now have a Hornady L-N-L progressive. With this press, I can make more consistent ammo in a fraction of the time that it takes on a single stage or a turret press.

If you read the books first and then buy a single stage press on which to learn, before you're done loading your first box of ammo you'll be thinking "Man, I really need to get a progressive press."

If you still insist on getting a single stage press, get a good one (like an RCBS Rockchucker). Find one used on eBay. When you quickly decide to sell it and get a progressive press, at least you'll get your money back. Also, if you decide to keep it around for other purposes (dedicated decapping, etc) at least you'll have a decent press.

I still have the Lee P.O.S. that I started out with. If anyone wants it, PM me and you can have it (just don't expect me to go out of my way to get it to you).

 

[Boston-Irish]

You know... I like how you think!
I will pick up a few of the books and start reading. I have a xmas present coming my way, so price (within reason) is not much of a factor.
My wife got wicked bent when she saw the bank statement on what I have been spending on ammo.
I talked her into letting me reload as a way to save money. I can be so slick sometimes !
I think I will look more at the progressive press.
Thanks.

 

[M1911]

I totally disagree with the "start with a single stage to learn how the process works" crowd. Boston Irish, if you're loading for pistol by all means get a progressive press and don't look back.

+1

Buy a reloading manual and read it (e.g., Lyman's). Buy a Dillon 550B and associated stuff. Watch the video that comes with the press and have at it. That's how I started 110+ batches of reloads ago.

For pistol you don't need the excruciating level of precision that some rifle shooters go through. You do need quantity.

I believe Stalin said something along the lines of "Quantity has a quality all its own." I think that applies here. Get a Dillon 550B and pump out 200+ rounds an hour without breaking a sweat.

 

[number9]

Am I right in saying that there is a large difference in complexity between reloading pistol/rifle ammunition versus shotgun?

 

[Dick]

I'm not sure if "complexity" is the right word. Certainly there are many more options for metallic cartridge reloading, so it can involve a bit more planning - though it doesn't necessarily need to. For example, most shotshell reloading is for target loads, and there's only one "kind" of 9 shot (if you're a skeet shooter) and one shot charge (1-1/8 oz. in 12 ga.). Compare that to someone who's loading for the .45 ACP where there are dozens and dozens of different bullets from many different manufacturers. On the other hand, someone could just decide that they're going to load 230 gr. roundnose FMJ from XYZ Bulletmakers and let it go at that (I don't recommend it, but you could).

Generally shotshell reloaders standardize on one load only, and metallic reloaders experiment, at least until they find (if they find!) a load they're happy with. I have four shotshell reloaders for each of the four skeet gauges I shoot. Each is set up for one and only one load, with one and only one type of powder - and they haven't been changed for 30 years. I have some friends who experiment with shotshells, but they're the exception. Compare that to my Rockchucker, which may be used to make 10 or more totally different loads in one session at the bench.

With regard to the actual process itself, I think that shotshell reloading and most pistol reloading are of similar complexity in that you're pretty much just stuffing things back together and if you pay attention to what you're doing it's hard to get it wrong. The difference comes in reloading for rifles, where the little things really count in terms of accuracy and you can end up with mediocre reloads for reasons you've never even heard of.

Just my $.02. And one of these days just maybe I'll take a drive up to Portland and have a beer at Gritty's with you.

 

[number9]

Geez Dick, maybe I should start IOUing you 1 beer per post!

I guess I got a little hesitant once I saw the mention of single-versus-progressive stage kits, and tumblers. They were two things I hadn't heard of in my cursory looks around the shotshell world, so I was worried I was opening pandora's box!

This page allayed my fears a little in pointing out the differences between presses and also what a tumbler is used for (though my guess was close!). I will have a look around for some more sites to gather more information... and save money for beers at Gritty's

 

[M1911]

On the other hand, someone could just decide that they're going to load 230 gr. roundnose FMJ from XYZ Bulletmakers and let it go at that (I don't recommend it, but you could).

That's pretty much what I do. Most of the shooting I do is with a 1911, primarily for IDPA. I'm not looking for extreme accuracy. My loads need to be reasonably accurate, feed reliably, make major power, and have soft recoil. I've had good luck with Rainier 230gr and I prefer a TMJ bullet to reduce lead exposure. I have played around with powder a bit with different powder (first Bullseye, then 231, now a winchester powder). I don't see a need to spend a lot of time experimenting with different bullets. YMMV.

 

[Dick]

number9-

It's a lot like so much else in life - when you're first getting started everything is a challenge and you wonder how you're going to come up to speed. Once you're into it, you look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.

Dick

 

[number9]

Dick: Yeah... that's generally how people are when I try to teach them stuff about computers. I tell them I've been doing it longer than they've been driving

 

[Lugnut]

LOL. Some strong opinions here. Since I only have a single stage RCBS Rochchucker I only have one perspective.

I will say this. Rockchucker "kit" I bought included tons of stuff that I can resuse WHEN I go progressive, including the dies. It's a quality setup and the "real" cost of the press itself is probably under a $100. And like Eddie and others have said- I won't have a hard time justifying it's use after a good progressive. Also like Eddie and others said- it's slow. If you want to crank out hundreds of rounds a week it's not ideal.

Eddie- I've been looking at the LNL from Hornady as a good option to the blue company- are you pleased with that set up? How do you like the bushings? I also heard the primer system is a little better- meaning the primers drop from a separate location as where they go in.. cleaner.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Eddie- I've been looking at the LNL from Hornady as a good option to the blue company- are you pleased with that set up? How do you like the bushings? I also heard the primer system is a little better- meaning the primers drop from a separate location as where they go in.. cleaner.

I like it a lot. The bushings are AWESOME. Between the bushings and the micrometer metering insert, I can change calibers (provided the cases are similar lengths and the primer size is the same) in about two minutes. Add another minute if I have to change the primer size.

The only quirks I've had with it were when trying to use unmodified Lee Factory crimp dies in the final station - they're long enough to contact the eject wire. You either have to grind them down or use Hornady or RCBS crimp dies instead.

Also, short squat cases like the .45 ACP or .380 Auto sometimes don't eject smoothly. It might not sound like a big deal but having to manually remove the finished round really disrupts your rhythm. I filed a little bit of the back edge of each shell plate opening and the problem went away. Longer cases like .38 SPL and .500 Mag seem to eject fine.

All in all, I'd say it's a great press.

 

[M1911]

If you want to crank out hundreds of rounds a week it's not ideal.

When I go to the range, I typically shoot at least a couple hundred rounds of 45 ACP. I sure do want to reload hundreds of rounds a week and I don't want to spend hours and hours doing it. That's why I've got a progressive.

Btw, I got the latest IDPA magazine in the mail the other day. At the nationals, they give the competitors an equipment questionnaire and print the results in the magazine. IIRC, 90% of the competitors who reload use a Dillon.

YMMV.

 

[adweisbe]

Watch those forums...

 

[highlander]

I feel that I must clarify something here, I don't make suggestions on dogma repeat drivell etc I made my statement on getting a single stage press under the that and no offense to BI that you ignorant of the process of reloading.
Not everyone is a quick study and it's better to start slow and learn than rush into something and screwing up royally.
I agree if i had it all to do over a progressive would be my choice but I tend to be mechanicaly inclined.
I've taught someone on how to reload took 2 maybe 3 hrs but
I stayed with him walked him thru the seperate steps and now he's a reloading mad man.
As I said in my previous post you don't have to be a rocket scientist to reload but it's no a game for dummies either

 

[M1911]

I'm not all that mechanically inclined. I read through Lyman's. I watched the video that came with my Dillon press. I put it together and gave it a whirl.

Reloading with a Dillon progressive just isn't hard.

 

[PistolPete]

Forget the single stage press idea. I started with a Lee Progressive 1000 and used it for about 1-2 weeks. I hated it and bought a Dillon 650. So I pretty much started with the 650 and never had any issues. I recommend buying only the Dillon products because they are the best in the business period. You will get the best resale if you get out of reloading with a Dillon and it will last you a lifetime and they guarantee that it will. If you have problems a simple call gets you new parts.

The Dillon machines produce excellent consistant ammo round after round. Other presses are too fininky and too slow. Many people will say speed shouldn't be a factor but when it takes you an hour to produce 100 rounds you will start buying factory ammo. With a progressive press you can produce 600-1000+ rounds in that same timeframe while making better ammo.

Others will disagree with me but do some research and see what the top shooters use. Well, those that still actually reload because most of them get free ammo.

Another great option is to take a reloading class. I took one several years ago and it was extremely helpful.

good luck,
Pete

 

[M1911]

Ok, here's the survey data from the competitor's survey from the 2006 IDPA national, published in the IDPA Tactical Journal Fourth Quarter 2006:

Dillon 1050 158
Dillon RL 550B 21
Dillon Square Deal B 11
Dillon XL 650 62
Hornady 3
Lock-N-Load 1
Lock-N-Load Progressive 1
Projector 1
Lee 10
Classic Turret 1
Load Master 4
Pro 1000 2
RCBS 9
Junior 3
Pro 2000 1
Rock Chucker 5

So, 252 out of 293 competitors used a Dillon press. That's 86%. There is a reason for that.

 

[Lugnut]

I'm not going to disagree with the pros of a "progressive" however let's not loose fact that a good single stage will go for ~$100 and a 550B goes for more than 3 times that. Not including dies for a single stage you need a shell holder which are $5 each. For a Dillon, etc. the conversion kits and toolheads (not absolutely needed) are a lot more than that.

All I'm saying is that practically for the cost of a class you can get started... and all is not lost if one decides to move to a progressive later. As long as your expectations are realistic there is no loss.

 

[PistolPete]

But the inital cost is paid for ten times over with a progressive after the first few times you use it. If you look at it this way. If you're worth $20 per hour then it costs say $30 of your time to load 1000 rounds on a progressive press. Now on a single stage press you are looking at $200 of your time to load every 1000 rounds. So after 2000 rounds you are WAY ahead of the game.

 

[EddieCoyle]

A progressive will more than pay for itself very quickly. Take a look at the calibers that BostonIrish wants to load:

...45acp and 10mm and now 500S&W....

If he loads just 1000 each of those last two calibers using once-fired brass that he already has, he'll save enough to buy two Dillon 650's.

Besides, you're less likely to make a mistake that will result in unsafe ammo on a self indexing progressive machine.