Walther P38 dating question

[That Guy]

I have a Walther P38 that I was trying to do some research on a few years ago but I remember running into a dead end. The backstory to this pistol is that it belonged to my great-grandfather who kept it in his glove compartment when he was CoP in Brewer, ME (in the 1950s). He didn't serve in WWII, so he didn't bring it back himsel (his son - my grandfather was in WWII, but before he died he denied bringing it back). You can see from the pictures that someone named Jim Fry has etched his name and serial number on the slide and grips with a 1944 on the other side of the grips. Inside of the grips someone else has also scratched his name and serial number - William Cymot. Neither of these two names was known to my family by the time I was old enough to ask about them (great granddad died before I was born).

I can't find any of the "ac" or "cyq" or other marking on the gun, but then again I don't know where to look for them. The serial numbers all match and the number on the frame is followed by an eagle with an "N" underneath it (I don't think you can see it in my camera phone photography).

Here are the pictures:


I would love to know the date of manufacture of this gun. I'd also like to hear people's opinions on whether it would increase the value or decrease it to have the names removed (replace the grips, refinish the gun) - I know the general rule of thumb on guns is not to refinish, but these seem like pretty egregious markings.

I don't know how I would ever feel about selling it - it's not really a family heirloom or anything. Nobody but me ever really gave a crap about it (I did shoot several thousand rounds through it when I was a teenager - I recently shot it and it still runs like a champ), and, to be honest, I'm not overjoyed about having anything that resembles WWII German stuff in my house. But at the end of the day I'll probably keep it - I'd just be curious as to how much it is worth and where and when it came from.

 

[45collector]

Post war gun. That's all I can tell you. There are several members here that know tons more about the P.38 than I do though so hang in there and someone will be along to tell you what you've got.

 

[Knob Creek]

Try here:

http://www.p38forum.com/

"Daltry99" and "JuergenG" are the pro's on these guns. I'm sure they'll be along.

 

[JuergenG]

Who called ?

Definitely not post-war; it's a civilian proofed (Eagle over N) wartime P.38. The Zella-Mehlis plant ceased manufacture
when the U.S. forces took the town and subsequently ransacked the plant's inventory, prototypes and collection.
Info can also be found here http://www.p38forum.com/index.htm , these folks are VERY knoweldgeable when it comes
to Walthers. Need to go now and will check for the serial (also not military style for most guns) later.

 

[That Guy]

I think it's a post war gun, too, but I think it has grips from an older P38 on it. I just can't figure out why someone would carve his name and 1944 into the gun if he hadn't brought it back from WWII - it also seems coincidental there are two names both with their service numbers on the gun. That's the only reason I was hesitant to just call it a post war gun.

I did look at that other forum but I am having a hard time finding the date information and honestly, I'm just not interested enough to register and post there in order to find this information.

 

[ranger4-7]

Like Jurgen said, its not post war. As he said, the plant roll marked on the slide didn't make any pistols post war. That would explin why whomever "liberated" the pistol would scratch 1944 onto the grips, and not some post war date.

 

[majspud]

I am a member of the P38/PP/PPK board. I can cross reference this thread if wanted.

MS

 

[That Guy]

Spud, that would be great. I made my second post without seeing Juergen's post. I definitely bow to the experts on this. Any help is appreciated.

 

[JuergenG]

She's a "late war commercial" which are pretty common in the 24,xxx - 25,xxx serial number range.
Here is one pictured in a Gunbroker auction which sold in August at a CRAZY price http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=301222508
Unfortunately the etching has reduced the collector value significantly.

 

[JuergenG]

I am a member of the P38/PP/PPK board. MS

Who woulda thought, lol? I started there a few years ago and haven't posted for some.
BTW, some of the above pistol's sisters in the 24,xxx range are discussed over there.
The appropriate threads are found best using "commercial" as the search term and
limiting the search to the "All P 38 Military - WW2" section.

 

[majspud]

Spud, that would be great. I made my second post without seeing Juergen's post. I definitely bow to the experts on this. Any help is appreciated.

Cross posted: "Late War commercial P38"

http://forums.p38forum.com/index.htm

MS

 

[JuergenG]

There were only ~ 1,800 wartime commercials under the P.38 designation; serial number range is
from ~ 24,000 to 25,834. Your pistol is pretty rare considering the vast numbers of military accepted
P.38's made by Walther (480, ac), Mauser (byf, svw) and Spreewerk (cyq).
Commercials with lower serials are "HP's" = Heerespistole, which is the earlier designation.

 

[That Guy]

Thank you for the help - it's nice to have an idea where this originated.

What does everyone think about changing out the grips and possibly trying to repair the etching, ie, rebluing? To me it seems like the interest of the history behind the two different US service member's names is better than a refinished gun, but I'm open to what others think.

 

[FrugalFannie]

I'm pretty sure that P38s dont date inter-racially.

 

[majspud]

Leave it as it is; it's part of the pistols history.

MS

 

[NinerMaine]

Leave it as it is; it's part of the pistols history.

MS

Nice pistol and I agree with Majspud. Think of it this way. If you deface the gun by grinding off the etching and then further deface the gun by rebluing you will then own a gun that was defaced three times instead of a gun that was defaced once At least in this case, the gun was defaced by a GI who captured it and therefore is part of its history. The blueing and grinding will not be and will even lessen the value to a greater extent.

 

[JuergenG]

What they said, leave her as is. Just keep her clean and lubed. Rather a honest "ugly duckling" than a shiny turd
My ugliest Luger turned out to be very rare. She's a "42" Mauser Banner commercial in the "w" block which is not uncommon,
but she's in .30 Luger instead of 9mm which makes her to be one out of only 5 reported world wide.
She spent over 40 years in a holster, hidden in someones attic, before I rescued her from a dealer. Both he and I didn't
know about her specifics until after I bought her. Now I do

 

[That Guy]

I'm definitely going to leave it as is. I'll bring it out once a year or so just to shoot it because I can't resist.

Anyone have any guesses as to the value as is? If a good example of that is between $2000 and $2500 (based on what was thrown around on the other forum, as well as the even higher price on gunbroker), I'm going to guess around $500 for this one? Obviously it's very much a subjective thing because it's worth exactly whatever a collector would pay for it, but what does anyone here think it might be worth?

 

[45collector]

Oops sorry That Guy I was completely wrong on the post war gun comment. The slide markings threw me off.

 

[daltrey99]

See what I miss when I go on vacation!! LOL. She is definetly a late war commercial. Keep her oiled and..... just plain keep her...unless you want to give it to me LOL