Using gun in self defense in MA question?

[newenglandjeff]

You aren't seriously asking if you could just shoot someone, holster your gun and go on your merry way like the wild west, are you?

Yeah, but it sounds crazy when you say it like that. If you shoot a BG and he survives, you clearly have an obligation to alert the police so they can find him and get him medical treatment, otherwise you are in danger of getting pinched for manslaughter. If you shoot a BG, and he goes down stone cold dead, is there a law requiring you to notify police of your not having commited a crime?

 

[xcom]

Taking it down a notch, how about if you do not actually shoot the individual (i.e., hold him or pull it out and scare him away...yes, I mean a gun)? Would you still get the "clean out" treatment or is that reserved for killing a perp?

 

[Terminator03]

What would happen if your buddy with an LTC clears out your forbidden closet of mystery of it's contents before the coppers show up?

I believe that LenS already covered that, and it would make little difference in them actually taking the guns, they would just get them from your buddy instead, and bring some hassle into his life for trying to "help". Remember they already know about every gun you bought in this state, or filed a FA-10 "registration" on. My thought is that your plan would only work for your mags, ammo, and probably any guns that you either never FA-10'd, or were brought from a free state when you moved in, and that would only be if there was no record of you having it in that previous state.

Taking it down a notch, how about if you do not actually shoot the individual (i.e., hold him or pull it out and scare him away...yes, I mean a gun)? Would you still get the "clean out" treatment or is that reserved for killing a perp?

Good question, but my hunch is that it would probably go the same way if the police were called to the scene. If not, then you go on with your life like nothing happened.

 

[Len-2A Training]

You don't need to FA-10 them just so he holds them. He's in lawful possession and you have no access to them.

And the police will still confiscate them. Failure to disclose is a separate felony under C. 269 S. 10.

 

[TOM1960]

And the police will still confiscate them. Failure to disclose is a separate felony under C. 269 S. 10.

What if you sell them to a friend out of state for $1.00 each? From what I can understand, you cannot give away a house or a car. You have to sell it for one dollar. I just did that with Dad's car after it was determined that he could no longer safely drive it do to age-related issues. Can you legally sell a gun for one dollar to a trusted friend? Or can it simply be given to him/her, gratis? Not going into the FA-10 thing anymore. Been there. I know your feelings and you know mine. I am talking complete out of state sale through dealer.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Out of state sales are only legal (Fed law) thru dealers. That's fine. If police still suspect you own anything they can get a search warrant anyway and toss anything you own to whatever degree of destruction they deem sufficient to determine that you aren't hiding anything. If you have a gun permit, that will give them justification to believe that you own some guns even without anything in the state database.

 

[M1911]

What if you sell them to a friend out of state for $1.00 each? From what I can understand, you cannot give away a house or a car. You have to sell it for one dollar.

If your handguns are not on the roster, then when the legal dust clears, you won't be able to buy them back from your friend -- they would have to be transferred through an FFL in MA, and if they aren't on the roster then he likely won't do the transfer.

 

[mike59271]

This thread makes me scared to CCW. What the heck is wrong with this state? I feel like I am the only intelligent person in the state (Plus all of you guys)

 

[Hellbound]

For MA, you are wrong, very wrong.

I can accept that.

 

[TOM1960]

If your handguns are not on the roster, then when the legal dust clears, you won't be able to buy them back from your friend -- they would have to be transferred through an FFL in MA, and if they aren't on the roster then he likely won't do the transfer.

Don't own handguns. Can't shoot the damned things well at all and really want nothing to do with them. I have always been a FID guy and own several rifles and shotguns, all of which have been purchased out of state to save the sales tax. Keep only two of them at home: one rifle and one shotgun. The rest are with friends, out of state. Besides minimizing the danger of MA confiscation, it is also convenient. When I go hunting or target shooting with these friends, less stuff to lug around. No, not lazy but I like to make my life as simple and convenient as possible.

 

[TOM1960]

This thread makes me scared to CCW. What the heck is wrong with this state? I feel like I am the only intelligent person in the state (Plus all of you guys)

If you own a house or condo, you may wish to file for homestead protection. The MA Homestead Act provides $500K worth of protection for the equity in your home. If you are sued for shooting a criminal dirtbag in self-defense and lose, they cannot force a sale of your home and throw you out into the street. The filing fee is $35.00. Probably the best bargain that you will ever have.

 

[TZCHRIS]

I asked 2 of my buddy cops this question the other night over a few beers. "If I shoot someone who kicks in my front door and has a weapon are you guys coming to take all my 'stuff'?" Both of them laughed and told me to lay off NES..........

 

[TOM1960]

I asked 2 of my buddy cops this question the other night over a few beers. "If I shoot someone who kicks in my front door and has a weapon are you guys coming to take all my 'stuff'?" Both of them laughed and told me to lay off NES..........

They laughed at that moment, but the joke will be on you if the worst-case scenario happened and your "buddy cops" boss ordered them to converge on your home to confiscate your stuff. Think defensively in this state. Remember, cops are not your "buddies" until they retire. Until they actually retire, they are more like "acquaintences". Make no mistake, if ordered to, they will raid your home and arrest you without blinking an eye. That is their mentality. Kind of like trying to make friends with a rattlesnake, alligator or snapping turtle. You are either one of them or you are prey.

 

[M1911]

Don't own handguns.

I have rifles and shotguns. But even if the state allowed me to carry them concealed, they are too big to do so. That's why I have handguns.

- - - Updated - - -

I asked 2 of my buddy cops this question the other night over a few beers. "If I shoot someone who kicks in my front door and has a weapon are you guys coming to take all my 'stuff'?" Both of them laughed and told me to lay off NES..........

They're not going to kick in your front door. They will, however, show up to collect your LTC, guns, magazines, and ammo.

 

[Len-2A Training]

What about pre-1899 items?

You can bet that they take them too. What makes you think that the average LEO is going to know the DOB of a gun or even what the law is on antiques?? Seriously they do a "clean sweep" and leave it to the courts to sort it out (if you sue) later (assuming they all didn't go to a Bonded Warehouse). Read Jarvis v. Village Vault (case up on www.comm2a.org) for an eye-opener. Son's LTC was suspended/revoked and they came to the house and took the Father's guns too (both lived together and had LTCs) plus a scope, gave it all to VV who auctioned it all off. Scopes shouldn't be confiscated, Father's LTC wasn't confiscated but his guns were gone anyway.

They really don't care about the law, they'll leave that up to their town counsel to defend after the fact.

 

[Quiet]

This thread makes me scared to CCW. What the heck is wrong with this state? I feel like I am the only intelligent person in the state (Plus all of you guys)

Excellent. You SHOULD be concerned with the responsibilities that go along with carrying a gun, in my opinion.

Carrying a gun is an awesome responsibility. If a situation presents that forces you to use your gun, it WILL change your life forever.

 

[M1911]

Some years back (~10?), a woman in Arlington was home during the day when she heard someone on her enclosed porch. She opened her front door to find out what was going on. The man, who was drunk and "known to police", advanced towards her. She told him to leave. He kept advancing. She pointed her gun at him and told him to leave. He laughed at her and kept advancing. She then fired one shot, hitting him in the neck. He suddenly realized that he had an urgent appointment elsewhere.

The perp was quickly caught and, unfortunately, survived. The woman's LTC was suspended and her firearms confiscated. After about six months, the DA decided not to press charges against her. At that point, the chief was going to revoke her LTC, but her lawyer was able to convince him not to.

I heard all of this firsthand from an attorney involved in the case some years after it was all over.

 

[atilla]

Some years back (~10?), a woman in Arlington was home during the day when she heard someone on her enclosed porch. She opened her front door to find out what was going on. The man, who was drunk and "known to police", advanced towards her. She told him to leave. He kept advancing. She pointed her gun at him and told him to leave. He laughed at her and kept advancing. She then fired one shot, hitting him in the neck. He suddenly realized that he had an urgent appointment elsewhere.

The perp was quickly caught and, unfortunately, survived. The woman's LTC was suspended and her firearms confiscated. After about six months, the DA decided not to press charges against her. At that point, the chief was going to revoke her LTC, but her lawyer was able to convince him not to.

I heard all of this firsthand from an attorney involved in the case some years after it was all over.

w-o-w.

"we don't encourage self-help."

things could have ended very poorly for that woman, i am glad she stepped up and did what needed to be done.

 

[Laderbuilt]

Lens I really need to take some of your courses what would you recommend assume I know nothing.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

w-o-w.

"we don't encourage self-help."

things could have ended very poorly for that woman, i am glad she stepped up and did what needed to be done.

change wo-man to man and things would surely have ended differently

 

[xcom]

change wo-man to man and things would surely have ended differently

Yup, would have been a hate crime too as that perp may have been gay. (I Kid)

 

[M1911]

Yup, would have been a hate crime too as that perp may have been gay. (I Kid)

In this case, actually, the woman was gay, which doesn't have anything to do with anything.

 

[xcom]

In this case, actually, the woman was gay, which doesn't have anything to do with anything.

So that means that the per was committing 2 hate crimes as the same time and she still got grilled.

 

[George D]

A friend of mine was atatcked in a parking garage in Boston. Guy jumped in her car and held a knife to her throat. She pulled her .38 and shot him. She got sued by the assailant because unfortunately, he lived. This state is insane.

 

[M1911]

A friend of mine was atatcked in a parking garage in Boston. Guy jumped in her car and held a knife to her throat. She pulled her .38 and shot him. She got sued by the assailant because unfortunately, he lived. This state is insane.

Did she win the lawsuit?

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

In this case, actually, the woman was gay, which doesn't have anything to do with anything.

Correct. However if she was a man, he probably would have been charged, and he would have probably had his ltc revoked.

A friend of mine was atatcked in a parking garage in Boston. Guy jumped in her car and held a knife to her throat. She pulled her .38 and shot him. She got sued by the assailant because unfortunately, he lived. This state is insane.

What was the outcome?

 

[Terminator03]

Thanks for the resources. I was more referring to pre1899's being grabbed by a friend. They shouldn't be Fa10'd anyways, but is it a felony then to not say anything about them?

I would say this is a DADT situation if there ever was one, unless they found some "evidence" to convict you on for withholding info such as a book listing all of your collection (for example).

 

[Terminator03]

A friend of mine was atatcked in a parking garage in Boston. Guy jumped in her car and held a knife to her throat. She pulled her .38 and shot him. She got sued by the assailant because unfortunately, he lived. This state is insane.

Did she win the lawsuit?

I'd like to know the outcome as well.

 

[Terminator03]

Excellent. You SHOULD be concerned with the responsibilities that go along with carrying a gun, in my opinion.

Carrying a gun is an awesome responsibility. If a situation presents that forces you to use your gun, it WILL change your life forever.

Sure, you should be concerned with the responsibilities, but treating you as a criminal for defending yourself is quite another thing. If you are deemed by the investigators to have had a "clean shoot", then that SHOULD be the end of it from the state's perspective. Obviously we don't have castle law here, so you still have a risk of lawsuit from the perp. or his family, but that is a separate issue altogether.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Lens I really need to take some of your courses what would you recommend assume I know nothing.

The MA Gun Law seminar is a real good start for anyone . . . I've had LEOs and lawyers in that seminar and they all said that they learned a lot.

If you have some handgun experience, the NRA Personal Protection in the Home/Outside the Home courses are excellent with lots of range-time in addition to lecture. I'm teaching PPIH this Sunday and can squeeze a few more people in the class if interested.

More details on these courses (including dates/times) can be found at my website (link in signature below).

Send me an Email (off username) if you want to follow up, I can't do the follow-up on courses thru PMs.

Thanks for the resources. I was more referring to pre1899's being grabbed by a friend. They shouldn't be Fa10'd anyways, but is it a felony then to not say anything about them?

It's a good question but since antiques can be traded/sold/given away like a can of soda it probably wouldn't be an issue if nobody said anything (however IANAL) and no FA-10 was done on them (yes, I'm sure some dealers would do FA-10 and NICS on antiques in MA!).