Well, it didn't get away from me, thanks to SKS Board member, Drago, who graciously allowed me to place this specimen into my Mosin Nagant collection.
It just got out of the United States somehow, and sometime following WWI. It is a post-Russian Contract manufacture, which ceased when the Tzar defaulted on payment to the US in the months preceding the Russian Revolution. Following default, the US Government placed additional orders of the M91 at both New England Westinghouse and Remington Arms, to keep a skilled workforce in place.
With a serial number well into the U.S. Surcharged Contract (1.165 million to 1.355 million, or approximately 200,000 units) at 1,297,812, this particular New England Westinghouse M91 did some duty in a Balkan Region country (Bulgaria, Serbia, Romania, other?).
Thread Subtitle: Never Saying Never, When It Comes to Mosin Nagant
Citing a reference from Charles W. Clawson's American-Made Mosin Nagant Rifles, from page 35 under U.S. Contract Westinghouse Rifles:
"Contrary to some stories... they (Surcharged NEW) were not issued to troops overseas."
Yet physical evidence appears to defy this statement. A small but pictorially documented number NEW M91'swith the Eagle Head inspection and the Ordnance Department Flaming Bomb stamps have been observed with the Finnish Army property stamp [SA]. References may also be found to link the US marked NEW M91's with the Spanish Civil War. And now, I'm presenting the second one from my collection with known traits which are associated with Balkan Region. Only a handful or two of these Balkan US marked NEW M91's have surfaced.
The purpose of this thread is not to summarily discount Clawson's statement, as there may truly be no immediately available written record of direct U.S Government disbursement of the Surcharged NEW to other governments or factions overseas. But instead, and in light of the documented US NEW M91's that seem to contradict the non-export claim, it is certainly worth pursuing the trail of these guns in that particular serial number block, from their origin in the United States to their destination in Eastern Europe, and then finally back home.
So, perhaps a more accurate statement regarding the Surcharged NEW M91's might read:
With no attainable documents or written orders to support exportation, the Surcharged NEW M91's were not confirmed to be issued to U.S troops overseas.
O.K., then. This one did find its way to the Balkan Region. How? When? Sent by whom? To whom? Well first, it should be shown that my particular NEW did indeed take a boat ride across the pond.
First, as typical of Balkan M91's, it is a WWI dated gun with mix of differing pre-1928 arsenal parts.
Next, it has the wedge in the rear sight base which is associated with Bulgaria and/or Serbia. Interestingly, it also has the extra step cut into the rear sight base, with the associated relief grinding of the barrel.
It has a very rough cut stock in a varnish finish, with very crudely cut finger grooves in the crossbolt area, and a number 5 stamp on the right butt area.. It has the appearance of construction outside of the usual M91 stocks by Russia, France, or the US. So, the stock was made by whom?
Lastly, there are some interesting stamps (8,P,21) on the rear tang of unknown significance, but stamps like these are not usual on Finn, U.S. or Russian examples. Some unknown arsenal also made the effort to force match the magazine floor plate. And what I first thought to be a poorly struck import mark on the front of the barrel turns out to be serrations from from a gripping device. Mismatched bolt. Then, various pics of U.S. Inspection stamps and remaining features, with an interesting collector's tag that is dated to 1983.
Pinpointing this gun to the Balkan Region wouldn't be a stretch, and it likely arrived there no later than the early to mid-1920's. How did it get there? Hmm, I've asked this question once before, regarding another NEW M91 in my collection with U.S. markings and a typical Balkan scrubbed eagle. But there isn't any official transfer reference that I can find for U.S. NEW M91's. Theories would involve the undocumented arming of the Czech Legion, perhaps Bulgaria, or Serbian/Romanian legions, undocumented transfers to England and a following dispersal, and finally the usual suspects of Archangel, Murmansk, Vladivostok, Mexico, others?
My other Balkan U.S. marked NEW M91.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?254889-NEW-of-Indefinite-Distinction
And how my recent one got back to the U.S. prior to 1983, with no import marks and much earlier than with the bulk of Balkan M91 imports, would also be an investigation unto itself.
Lots of questions. Discussion always welcome, and thanks for looking.
It just got out of the United States somehow, and sometime following WWI. It is a post-Russian Contract manufacture, which ceased when the Tzar defaulted on payment to the US in the months preceding the Russian Revolution. Following default, the US Government placed additional orders of the M91 at both New England Westinghouse and Remington Arms, to keep a skilled workforce in place.
With a serial number well into the U.S. Surcharged Contract (1.165 million to 1.355 million, or approximately 200,000 units) at 1,297,812, this particular New England Westinghouse M91 did some duty in a Balkan Region country (Bulgaria, Serbia, Romania, other?).
Thread Subtitle: Never Saying Never, When It Comes to Mosin Nagant
Citing a reference from Charles W. Clawson's American-Made Mosin Nagant Rifles, from page 35 under U.S. Contract Westinghouse Rifles:
"Contrary to some stories... they (Surcharged NEW) were not issued to troops overseas."
Yet physical evidence appears to defy this statement. A small but pictorially documented number NEW M91'swith the Eagle Head inspection and the Ordnance Department Flaming Bomb stamps have been observed with the Finnish Army property stamp [SA]. References may also be found to link the US marked NEW M91's with the Spanish Civil War. And now, I'm presenting the second one from my collection with known traits which are associated with Balkan Region. Only a handful or two of these Balkan US marked NEW M91's have surfaced.
The purpose of this thread is not to summarily discount Clawson's statement, as there may truly be no immediately available written record of direct U.S Government disbursement of the Surcharged NEW to other governments or factions overseas. But instead, and in light of the documented US NEW M91's that seem to contradict the non-export claim, it is certainly worth pursuing the trail of these guns in that particular serial number block, from their origin in the United States to their destination in Eastern Europe, and then finally back home.
So, perhaps a more accurate statement regarding the Surcharged NEW M91's might read:
With no attainable documents or written orders to support exportation, the Surcharged NEW M91's were not confirmed to be issued to U.S troops overseas.
O.K., then. This one did find its way to the Balkan Region. How? When? Sent by whom? To whom? Well first, it should be shown that my particular NEW did indeed take a boat ride across the pond.
First, as typical of Balkan M91's, it is a WWI dated gun with mix of differing pre-1928 arsenal parts.
Next, it has the wedge in the rear sight base which is associated with Bulgaria and/or Serbia. Interestingly, it also has the extra step cut into the rear sight base, with the associated relief grinding of the barrel.
It has a very rough cut stock in a varnish finish, with very crudely cut finger grooves in the crossbolt area, and a number 5 stamp on the right butt area.. It has the appearance of construction outside of the usual M91 stocks by Russia, France, or the US. So, the stock was made by whom?
Lastly, there are some interesting stamps (8,P,21) on the rear tang of unknown significance, but stamps like these are not usual on Finn, U.S. or Russian examples. Some unknown arsenal also made the effort to force match the magazine floor plate. And what I first thought to be a poorly struck import mark on the front of the barrel turns out to be serrations from from a gripping device. Mismatched bolt. Then, various pics of U.S. Inspection stamps and remaining features, with an interesting collector's tag that is dated to 1983.
Pinpointing this gun to the Balkan Region wouldn't be a stretch, and it likely arrived there no later than the early to mid-1920's. How did it get there? Hmm, I've asked this question once before, regarding another NEW M91 in my collection with U.S. markings and a typical Balkan scrubbed eagle. But there isn't any official transfer reference that I can find for U.S. NEW M91's. Theories would involve the undocumented arming of the Czech Legion, perhaps Bulgaria, or Serbian/Romanian legions, undocumented transfers to England and a following dispersal, and finally the usual suspects of Archangel, Murmansk, Vladivostok, Mexico, others?
My other Balkan U.S. marked NEW M91.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?254889-NEW-of-Indefinite-Distinction
And how my recent one got back to the U.S. prior to 1983, with no import marks and much earlier than with the bulk of Balkan M91 imports, would also be an investigation unto itself.
Lots of questions. Discussion always welcome, and thanks for looking.