Update. Framingham licensing

[kalash]

...I gotta ask what is holding the individual we are discussing to stay in such a shitty town?

I can only speak for myself but this new licensing BS aside I really like Framingham. Very convenient location; quiet and scenic up here on the north side; Shoppers World keeps property taxes low... Nice town imho.

 

[Hoover]

So my buddy went in today and directly talked to Lt. Mcarthy. He was told, it’s not that he’s too busy, it’s that the governor and new attorney general have new laws coming out in February and they are not taking ANY NEW applications/issuing any new licenses. They are doing re-newels though.
He did say the Lt was very professional and explained why very cordially.
Wonder what’s brewing?

Nothing could come out in February really. The MA legislature isn’t going to pass a law that quickly and even if they did, it probably would not take effect for months. Who knows what the laws “may” be next year, we know what they are now and they should accept the application and start the process. The Framingham cops job is to act within the current laws, most speculate what they may be in the future and postpone any appointments.

What if the legislature doesn’t pass anything for 6 months, will he refuse to accept applications for that long. This is BS

 

[Lank]

What is needed is an LTC facilitator working in each town. The facilitator would be someone who knows the Licensing officer well. There would be a fee schedule for this service. The faster you want your LTC the more it would cost. Most of the fee would go to the LO. The remainder is a commission for the facilitator. Officially the facilitator would just be helping applicants fill out the VERY complex forms etc. There would be no stated advantage to this other than guiding people through the "complicated" process. Of course facilitators would need a license to do this but having good connections would assure them of getting the license. I think they already have these in other totalitarian / corrupt countries. Soon it will be the norm here.

The entire licensing regime in MA needs to be abolished

 

[SFC13557]

Nothing could come out in February really. The MA legislature isn’t going to pass a law that quickly and even if they did, it probably would not take effect for months. Who knows what the laws “may” be next year, we know what they are now and they should accept the application and start the process. The Framingham cops job is to act within the current laws, most speculate what they may be in the future and postpone any appointments.

What if the legislature doesn’t pass anything for 6 months, will he refuse to accept applications for that long. This is BS

Yup, which is why I stated it's BS and the COP/City needs to be called on it and "asked" to explain their illegal policy.
Since the LT. stated they were not accepting any new applications because of supposed "new" legislation they need to be forced to give an answer and date for interview/application's.
I bet a letter from COMM 2A or a call to their Legal Dept. from an Attorney would be a wakeup call.

 

[namedpipes]

Is there such a thing as a not corrupt police department?

Asking for a friend........

Sure, just not THAT one.

Eurie Stamps
The officer that is a prohibited person

Those come easily to mind.

That said, I lived in that town for 30 years and other than being slow, they never gave me s**t over LTC renewals. (First one was acquired in a different town)

 

[namedpipes]

I can only speak for myself but this new licensing BS aside I really like Framingham. Very convenient location; quiet and scenic up here on the north side; Shoppers World keeps property taxes low... Nice town imho.

Location and the wide variety of restaurants are big pluses. Not too fond of the place otherwise...

 

[P51MA]

Yup, which is why I stated it's BS and the COP/City needs to be called on it and "asked" to explain their illegal policy.
Since the LT. stated they were not accepting any new applications because of supposed "new" legislation they need to be forced to give an answer and date for interview/application's.
I bet a letter from COMM 2A or a call to their Legal Dept. from an Attorney would be a wakeup call.

There is a very real chance that a formal letter from COMM2A or a lawyer's office will solve the problem.

Some problems in life can be solved by the other party simply seeing the letterhead logo of a law office. Does't even matter what the content of the letter is.

People really shouldnt have to put up with this.

 

[Lank]

Yup, which is why I stated it's BS and the COP/City needs to be called on it and "asked" to explain their illegal policy.
Since the LT. stated they were not accepting any new applications because of supposed "new" legislation they need to be forced to give an answer and date for interview/application's.
I bet a letter from COMM 2A or a call to their Legal Dept. from an Attorney would be a wakeup call.

I'm telling all- more draconian "lawz" are ready now and waiting.

We will learn of them minutes before the marxists shitheads pass them

 

[SFC13557]

I'm telling all- more draconian "lawz" are ready now and waiting.

We will learn of them minutes before the marxists shitheads pass them

I think Maura will wait to see how things work out for NY/NJ/CA and now Oregon.
I'm sure the Leftist Dems on Beacon Hill are chomping at the bit to file more oppressive Firearm Laws, but Maura won't want to back a losing campaign that will be dragged out in numerous Courts IMHO.
Maura is smart and calculating and has time on her side.

 

[gerrycaruso]

Maybe Goal or Comm 2A might have a suggestion.

 

[SFC13557]

Maybe Goal or Comm 2A might have a suggestion.

Hoping COMM 2A will send a letter to Framingham asking for "clarification" on their application policy.
This BS cannot be allowed to stand.

 

[42!]

I have in the past had to set my LO in my town straight regarding what the law ACTUALLY states. They work for you, not the Governor or AG.
Your buddy should have CORDIALLY reminded the officer what the law currently states, and that it his job to take your buddies info and schedule that appointment.

I can see them at the suitability appeal now "Your honor the LO states 'he was agitated agitated even aggressive when he came in to apply. This agrive overreaction given the circumstances and being in the police station, have given rise to what his response might be in a situation where he had a gun' this shows a clear risk to public safety" Of course the LO isn't there, and you're not allowed to questions anyway, so the judge takes the PD's lawyer at his word and upholds the denial.

See how simple suitability denials are.

What is needed is an LTC facilitator working in each town. The facilitator would be someone who knows the Licensing officer well. There would be a fee schedule for this service. The faster you want your LTC the more it would cost. Most of the fee would go to the LO. The remainder is a commission for the facilitator. Officially the facilitator would just be helping applicants fill out the VERY complex forms etc. There would be no stated advantage to this other than guiding people through the "complicated" process. Of course facilitators would need a license to do this but having good connections would assure them of getting the license. I think they already have these in other totalitarian / corrupt countries. Soon it will be the norm here.

An official bribe facilitator what's the base pay and benefits? asking for a friend

I can only speak for myself but this new licensing BS aside I really like Framingham. Very convenient location; quiet and scenic up here on the north side; Shoppers World keeps property taxes low... Nice town imho.

Framingham is a wonderful town, or at least it was. I grew up there, bought a house there, servered on town meeting, the public safety committee, and chaired the Tech Committee. And despite all the Libs and some of their stupid arguments, the town did function well, except for the PD which turned into it's own little fiefdom of zero accountability to anyone.

Sure, just not THAT one.

Eurie Stamps
The officer that is a prohibited person

Those come easily to mind.

That said, I lived in that town for 30 years and other than being slow, they never gave me s**t over LTC renewals. (First one was acquired in a different town)

You forgot the 2 Officers who stole cash from the evidence room. That cash was actually part of a multi-million dollar civil forfeiture cache that they used to keep in cash at the station. Following the incident it went into an account that ONLY the Chief had access to, even the town manager and the CFO didn't have any info on it and it was never listed in the budgets.

 

[namedpipes]

I can see them at the suitability appeal now "Your honor the LO states 'he was agitated agitated even aggressive when he came in to apply. This agrive overreaction given the circumstances and being in the police station, have given rise to what his response might be in a situation where he had a gun' this shows a clear risk to public safety" Of course the LO isn't there, and you're not allowed to questions anyway, so the judge takes the PD's lawyer at his word and upholds the denial.

See how simple suitability denials are.

An official bribe facilitator what's the base pay and benefits? asking for a friend

Framingham is a wonderful town, or at least it was. I grew up there, bought a house there, servered on town meeting, the public safety committee, and chaired the Tech Committee. And despite all the Libs and some of their stupid arguments, the town did function well, except for the PD which turned into it's own little fiefdom of zero accountability to anyone.

You forgot the 2 Officers who stole cash from the evidence room. That cash was actually part of a multi-million dollar civil forfeiture cache that they used to keep in cash at the station. Following the incident it went into an account that ONLY the Chief had access to, even the town manager and the CFO didn't have any info on it and it was never listed in the budgets.

Wasn't there another officer, maybe 5 yrs or more ago, had some horrible auto accident in a neighboring town? I never heard really anything about it, except I saw some media van setting up in the FPD parking lot to do a story about it.

My apologies to the GOOD officers out there on Framingham or other PDs. These gripes are about the losers every organization has. Just yours, those losers have more capacity to do harm than the jerkoff in the office down the hall that won't unit test his code.

 

[Lank]

I think Maura will wait to see how things work out for NY/NJ/CA and now Oregon.
I'm sure the Leftist Dems on Beacon Hill are chomping at the bit to file more oppressive Firearm Laws, but Maura won't want to back a losing campaign that will be dragged out in numerous Courts IMHO.
Maura is smart and calculating and has time on her side.

I just began an attitude adjustment. Fire is lit. Motorhead volume 11. Beer

 

[MisterHappy]

Wow.

Quite the change.

It used to be: Drop off app, come back 2 Thursdays later with bucks, pix and prints, come back and get permission slip at some future point. No appointment needed.

Thanks for starting the thread (though I'm sorry it needed to be started).

 

[Hoover]

I think Maura will wait to see how things work out for NY/NJ/CA and now Oregon.
I'm sure the Leftist Dems on Beacon Hill are chomping at the bit to file more oppressive Firearm Laws, but Maura won't want to back a losing campaign that will be dragged out in numerous Courts IMHO.
Maura is smart and calculating and has time on her side.

Healy certainly won’t be gun friendly but I think it’s quite secondary to “climate change”. Her obsession will be being the most woke governor fighting to “save” the planet. Energy cost here will be like California.

 

[Hoover]

I can see them at the suitability appeal now "Your honor the LO states 'he was agitated agitated even aggressive when he came in to apply. This agrive overreaction given the circumstances and being in the police station, have given rise to what his response might be in a situation where he had a gun' this shows a clear risk to public safety" Of course the LO isn't there, and you're not allowed to questions anyway, so the judge takes the PD's lawyer at his word and upholds the denial.

See how simple suitability denials are.

An official bribe facilitator what's the base pay and benefits? asking for a friend

Framingham is a wonderful town, or at least it was. I grew up there, bought a house there, servered on town meeting, the public safety committee, and chaired the Tech Committee. And despite all the Libs and some of their stupid arguments, the town did function well, except for the PD which turned into it's own little fiefdom of zero accountability to anyone.

You forgot the 2 Officers who stole cash from the evidence room. That cash was actually part of a multi-million dollar civil forfeiture cache that they used to keep in cash at the station. Following the incident it went into an account that ONLY the Chief had access to, even the town manager and the CFO didn't have any info on it and it was never listed in the budgets.

The NYSRPA vs bruen case ended suitability. They cannot use subjective standards, they can only use objective standards. They will likely allow certain training, etc but it needs to be spelled out and it has to be things people can meet definitively, not a standard subject to the interpretation or judgement of a licensing official. The show good cause, etc were tossed by SCOTUS.

 

[42!]

Wasn't there another officer, maybe 5 yrs or more ago, had some horrible auto accident in a neighboring town? I never heard really anything about it, except I saw some media van setting up in the FPD parking lot to do a story about it.

My apologies to the GOOD officers out there on Framingham or other PDs. These gripes are about the losers every organization has. Just yours, those losers have more capacity to do harm than the jerkoff in the office down the hall that won't unit test his code.

This is true, there are good cops out there and there must be some at FPD, it's just a shame that the "no accountability" policy of the Chief lets only the bad ones shine, and shine they do. Often blinding us from seeing the good ones that just do their job and do it well.

 

[mcb]

Bad Cops Bad Cops What U Gonna Doooo

 

[babygorilla]

I can see them at the suitability appeal now "Your honor the LO states 'he was agitated agitated even aggressive when he came in to apply. This agrive overreaction given the circumstances and being in the police station, have given rise to what his response might be in a situation where he had a gun' this shows a clear risk to public safety" Of course the LO isn't there, and you're not allowed to questions anyway, so the judge takes the PD's lawyer at his word and upholds the denial.

I prefer not to cuck and I'm too old to GAS. I'm related to 4 cops and 2 FF, their attitude doesn't phase me. But there is a far difference between agitated and politely asking what the law actually states. And pointing out the inaccuracies.

If you haven't noticed, stations have cameras, EVERYWHERE.

Additionally, I have the wherewithal and political connections to fight that lawsuit. And as long as I don't act like an ass, I'll win. And hopefully set a good precedent.

Some people choose to flee to other states, since they can't handle the fight. Others prefer to simplify things and fight like Chesty Puller.
"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things."

 

[42!]

I prefer not to cuck and I'm too old to GAS. I'm related to 4 cops and 2 FF, their attitude doesn't phase me. But there is a far difference between agitated and politely asking what the law actually states. And pointing out the inaccuracies.

If you haven't noticed, stations have cameras, EVERYWHERE.

Additionally, I have the wherewithal and political connections to fight that lawsuit. And as long as I don't act like an ass, I'll win. And hopefully set a good precedent.

Some people choose to flee to other states, since they can't handle the fight. Others prefer to simplify things and fight like Chesty Puller.
"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things."

You need to attend one of the administrative hearings that is an appeal. There may be cameras but the video won't be shown and there is no right to demand them. It's not a trial with rules of evidence, it's all hearsay. There is no questioning, witnesses, or cross examination. You can literally have signed and notarized documentation that conflicts what the PD is presenting and the Judge will still take what the PD says as fact.

As for cameras, FPD has limited station cams by design, and no body or cruiser cams. The Chief outright refused to implement those. A PD of over 125 officers, in a city of over 70,000 and no cameras in the cars or on the officers. Tell me how they aren't trying to hide something. And I sat on the committee that offered to support his adding cameras to the budget, he was having none of the idea. The smallest PD I work with has 3 officers and they have cams.

And your relationship to 4 officers is blinding you to reality, and why not, I'll bet they all know you and you're treated as one of them. You never see how they treat the average, not connected, guy.

And I'm all for the fight, I did it for years and still do, but not from MA any more. I lost my personal fight because I'm not rich and every aspect of the system is stacked against you. To continue to flush you time, money, life, down the toilet in that situation doesn't show that you're not a cuck, it shows that you're crazy and you don't live in reality. You have connections that means you won't see that side, and the vast majority of MA gun owners will never do anything but talk to each other about the problems. Fortunately for all of you there are some who do really fight for their rights, they are holding the wolf's back and you benefit from it. Most of these go unrecognized.

And what do you do to fight? When was the last time you sat face to face with your state rep or senator. Before I moved I was meeting with my rep every 2-3 weeks. And while I only had one meeting with Spilka face to face, her office staff all new my name and knew it was simpler if they just scheduled the phone call than tried to bury the request. I never made any progress with Spilka, but Walsh was coming along, if only cancer hadn't taken him.

And while I had a personal fight, my efforts with the legislature and my involvement on the town level were never about that. Those were for the benefit of everyone, nothing there was going to make my life better. So what do you, mister I'll fight, do on a daily basis to fight for others?

 

[Chappy7]

This is true, there are good cops out there and there must be some at FPD, it's just a shame that the "no accountability" policy of the Chief lets only the bad ones shine, and shine they do. Often blinding us from seeing the good ones that just do their job and do it well.

My first thought would be - why give them the benefit of any doubt? We, law abiding gun owners get thrown into the category of being the equivalent to criminals in this liberal toilet of a state.

 

[Lank]

You need to attend one of the administrative hearings that is an appeal. There may be cameras but the video won't be shown and there is no right to demand them. It's not a trial with rules of evidence, it's all hearsay. There is no questioning, witnesses, or cross examination. You can literally have signed and notarized documentation that conflicts what the PD is presenting and the Judge will still take what the PD says as fact.

As for cameras, FPD has limited station cams by design, and no body or cruiser cams. The Chief outright refused to implement those. A PD of over 125 officers, in a city of over 70,000 and no cameras in the cars or on the officers. Tell me how they aren't trying to hide something. And I sat on the committee that offered to support his adding cameras to the budget, he was having none of the idea. The smallest PD I work with has 3 officers and they have cams.

And your relationship to 4 officers is blinding you to reality, and why not, I'll bet they all know you and you're treated as one of them. You never see how they treat the average, not connected, guy.

And I'm all for the fight, I did it for years and still do, but not from MA any more. I lost my personal fight because I'm not rich and every aspect of the system is stacked against you. To continue to flush you time, money, life, down the toilet in that situation doesn't show that you're not a cuck, it shows that you're crazy and you don't live in reality. You have connections that means you won't see that side, and the vast majority of MA gun owners will never do anything but talk to each other about the problems. Fortunately for all of you there are some who do really fight for their rights, they are holding the wolf's back and you benefit from it. Most of these go unrecognized.

And what do you do to fight? When was the last time you sat face to face with your state rep or senator. Before I moved I was meeting with my rep every 2-3 weeks. And while I only had one meeting with Spilka face to face, her office staff all new my name and knew it was simpler if they just scheduled the phone call than tried to bury the request. I never made any progress with Spilka, but Walsh was coming along, if only cancer hadn't taken him.

And while I had a personal fight, my efforts with the legislature and my involvement on the town level were never about that. Those were for the benefit of everyone, nothing there was going to make my life better. So what do you, mister I'll fight, do on a daily basis to fight for others?

Wow I had no idea you went through that. I hope you are enjoying the RKBA in a free state

 

[babygorilla]

You need to attend one of the administrative hearings that is an appeal. There may be cameras but the video won't be shown and there is no right to demand them. It's not a trial with rules of evidence, it's all hearsay. There is no questioning, witnesses, or cross examination. You can literally have signed and notarized documentation that conflicts what the PD is presenting and the Judge will still take what the PD says as fact.

As for cameras, FPD has limited station cams by design, and no body or cruiser cams. The Chief outright refused to implement those. A PD of over 125 officers, in a city of over 70,000 and no cameras in the cars or on the officers. Tell me how they aren't trying to hide something. And I sat on the committee that offered to support his adding cameras to the budget, he was having none of the idea. The smallest PD I work with has 3 officers and they have cams.

And your relationship to 4 officers is blinding you to reality, and why not, I'll bet they all know you and you're treated as one of them. You never see how they treat the average, not connected, guy.

And I'm all for the fight, I did it for years and still do, but not from MA any more. I lost my personal fight because I'm not rich and every aspect of the system is stacked against you. To continue to flush you time, money, life, down the toilet in that situation doesn't show that you're not a cuck, it shows that you're crazy and you don't live in reality. You have connections that means you won't see that side, and the vast majority of MA gun owners will never do anything but talk to each other about the problems. Fortunately for all of you there are some who do really fight for their rights, they are holding the wolf's back and you benefit from it. Most of these go unrecognized.

And what do you do to fight? When was the last time you sat face to face with your state rep or senator. Before I moved I was meeting with my rep every 2-3 weeks. And while I only had one meeting with Spilka face to face, her office staff all new my name and knew it was simpler if they just scheduled the phone call than tried to bury the request. I never made any progress with Spilka, but Walsh was coming along, if only cancer hadn't taken him.

And while I had a personal fight, my efforts with the legislature and my involvement on the town level were never about that. Those were for the benefit of everyone, nothing there was going to make my life better. So what do you, mister I'll fight, do on a daily basis to fight for others?

Why should I fight for those that choose not to? Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
Also, you and I have literally sat in the same offices in the state house together, LOL. Of course, that was 2017. And I was a Comm 2A plaintiff, until that got dropped, unfortunately, for better cases. With a 3 YO, visiting Boston is a time suck that is not value added. And I am well aware of the situation you were in, which was a total screw job. But, things are different, state and federal "legally" standing, now.
One rep I am on first name basis with, the other avoids me, and I don't push the issue, but have campaigned for his opponents.

 

[TLB]

It took me a second, but I think that was meant as a facetious description of graft, as seen in NYC.

I took it as a description of getting stuff done in Boston for decades... See Chuck Turner et al.

 

[namedpipes]

...If you haven't noticed, stations have cameras, EVERYWHERE....

FPD has had an ongoing problem with with "produce" being flushed down the toilet apparently to cause flooding. Maybe they should install cameras in the bathroom stalls instead of locking the bathrooms?

 

[safetyfirst2125]

This is one up on the “only following orders” shtick.

This is “I refuse to do my duty and respect the laws of the country and state in which I am sworn to enforce them, since I MAY receive new unconstitutional orders I will follow in the future”

I guess that puts to rest any doubt about police behavior when the confiscation orders come.

 

[Glocklike tendencies]

The NYSRPA vs bruen case ended suitability. They cannot use subjective standards, they can only use objective standards. They will likely allow certain training, etc but it needs to be spelled out and it has to be things people can meet definitively, not a standard subject to the interpretation or judgement of a licensing official. The show good cause, etc were tossed by SCOTUS.

Hoover, if you think suitability is ended, in MA...... it has NOT. it still has to be fought for in MA courts,

 

[Hoover]

Hoover, if you think suitability is ended, in MA...... it has NOT. it still has to be fought for in MA courts,

The fight won’t last long, they can’t use subjective standards

 

[42!]

Why should I fight for those that choose not to? Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
Also, you and I have literally sat in the same offices in the state house together, LOL. Of course, that was 2017. And I was a Comm 2A plaintiff, until that got dropped, unfortunately, for better cases. With a 3 YO, visiting Boston is a time suck that is not value added. And I am well aware of the situation you were in, which was a total screw job. But, things are different, state and federal "legally" standing, now.
One rep I am on first name basis with, the other avoids me, and I don't push the issue, but have campaigned for his opponents.

OK, I'll take a step back.