Update 3/8/09 - It's SHTF Time On The Mexican Border

[azurevirus]

Bush

well the Minutemen were on this for awhile and even private citizens were watching the border on their own dime and Bush called them "vigilantes"..the fence still isnt built..because Bush and Obama want those ppl in this country and Lord help anyone who tries to stop them..our govt ..between shipping jobs overseas and hiring illegals to work the jobs we still do have seems to me to be a main thing on their agenda..I can only imagine what this country is going to be like in 5 to 10 yrs from now..if its still here by then.

 

[clinotus]

Mexican Army sends 5000 to border

Those guys are armed to the teeth, a few of them have their faces exposed...kind of a wtf moment, but here is hoping to their success.

 

[Yelena]

Legalizing drugs wont solve the problem, we have problems breaking up gangs here with our current law enforcement tools and laws...dealing with another sovereign state's issues with drugs and gangs would just add more to our failure of our own...failed war on drugs.

We should remove the drug angle and proceed on the federal sovereign grounds of the border crossings.

Legalizing drugs would cut off the income, at least partially, from those gangs. Why would anyone buy untested, expensive Mexican product, when cheap and clean local one is availible? While I am disgusted by drug and alcohol addicts, I think legalization has lots of pluses.
We have problems breaking up gangs only because our government supports them. The only way to fight gangs is to allow good citizens to protect themselves and their property, to investigate every crime, no matter how small, and to stop spending taxpayers money on keeping gang bangers in jails, instead of executing them promptly.

 

[freedom2012]

Napolitano, and Obama by default, are already guilty of treason in my book.

 

[clinotus]

Legalizing drugs would cut off the income, at least partially, from those gangs. Why would anyone buy untested, expensive Mexican product, when cheap and clean local one is availible?
While I am disgusted by drug and alcohol addicts, I think legalization has lots of pluses.

You think with the shear amount of regulation, oversight, and liability involved in these 'products' would really result in a cheaper product?

I doubt it and most likely like the pharmaceutical companies methods of recouping Research and Development costs, the consumer cost will be staggeringly high. Then add in the taxes on the new revenue stream.

Now lets enter our quagmire. You have the 1) Legally cheap (expensive) drugs, illegal and actually cheap drugs, 2) penalties for illegal drugs higher since they infringe on an industry and government revenue sources, and 3) a thriving black market in between.

Government and legality is not the answer.

We have problems breaking up gangs only because our government supports them.

Due process is sometimes in bed with special interests, like keeping your country jail open and full for federal funds. I wont argue that at all.

The only way to fight gangs is to allow good citizens to protect themselves and their property, to investigate every crime, no matter how small, and to stop spending taxpayers money on keeping gang bangers in jails, instead of executing them promptly.

You almost had me up to the executing them promptly part. We are not China.

 

[cekim]

Legalizing drugs would cut off the income, at least partially, from those gangs. Why would anyone buy untested, expensive Mexican product, when cheap and clean local one is availible? While I am disgusted by drug and alcohol addicts,

+1 as I said - "buy American!" Think of all the new tax paying jobs!

People act like gangs and terrorists exist in this ideological vacuum and they would be there and do what they do no matter what he economics of the situation...

Well, sorry, doesn't work that way, someone has to pay "the bills". Without money, gang members and terrorists are just angry, disenfranchised, anti-social people... (we have lots of those - we call them "teenagers" )

It wont be a panacea - Mexico will still be a failed socialist state ostensibly responsible for and incapable of providing for the welfare of its people. The US is headed there fast...

However, step one to doing the right thing is to stop doing all the wrong things...

 

[cekim]

You think with the shear amount of regulation, oversight, and liability involved in these 'products' would really result in a cheaper product?

Even with regs, the product will be made cheaper by virtue of removing the cost of illegal importation as well as the various monopolies imposed by the "cartel" structure... Think of all the middle-men you remove as well as the "security" costs of smuggling and then protection from rival illegal importers (and/or pirates).

Price transparency and competition work very well in such a "commodity" market (i.e. cost and expertise required for production are low - as such barrier to entry into the market is low and competition will be fierce).

As Yelena said, I am no fan of drugs, users, pushers, traffickers - they could all die of a nasty case of "super clap" tomorrow and I would just smile, but the reality of the situation is that we are funding our own destruction. The addicts siphon money off of productive society in a number of ways, then our prisons do the same along with all the law enforcement that goes into an unwinable "war on drugs".

Ultimately, the most dangerous part (other than giving up our rights) is the destabilization of the 3rd world that results from black markets in those nations eclipsing the "legitimate" GNP to the point that the government is marginalized to the point of absurdity...

 

[clinotus]

Even with regs, the product will be made cheaper by virtue of removing the cost of illegal importation as well as the various monopolies imposed by the "cartel" structure... Think of all the middle-men you remove as well as the "security" costs of smuggling and then protection from rival illegal importers (and/or pirates).

You are only trading middle-men. Instead of foreign thugs in black garb, you've got corporate suits and ATF agents.

Price transparency and competition work very well in such a "commodity" market (i.e. cost and expertise required for production are low - as such barrier to entry into the market is low and competition will be fierce).

What transparency and competition? You've got marijuana, cocaine, heron, and crack. Pretty basic products in their own right, what competition will you have unless you have additives added to them? So you would create a tiered drug market instead? Clean drugs and the designer drugs created for soley for competition? We can see where that would go.

As Yelena said, I am no fan of drugs, users, pushers, traffickers - they could all die of a nasty case of "super clap" tomorrow and I would just smile, but the reality of the situation is that we are funding our own destruction. The addicts siphon money off of productive society in a number of ways, then our prisons do the same along with all the law enforcement that goes into an unwinable "war on drugs".

Ultimately, the most dangerous part (other than giving up our rights) is the destabilization of the 3rd world that results from black markets in those nations eclipsing the "legitimate" GNP to the point that the government is marginalized to the point of absurdity...

So...we would just come fill circle.

 

[notalib]

"There is no down side for having a porous border with our friends to the south"
"We need illeagal immagrants as they do all the lousy jobs"

Whats that matter with all of us? Dont we listen to our Guberment?

 

[Rockrivr1]

I have a timeshare in Cancun I probably couldn't give away at this point. I've heard from a lot of people that the whole area has taken a huge step backwards. Resorts are hiring heavily armed guards to watch over their guests. Army type personnel walk the streets with automatic weapons and yet people like your friend still get mugged on a regular basis.

My question is, how long do you think these hired security guards are going to stick around if the locals want at the rich tourists. Not very long I'm thinking.

Guess my time slot will stay empty until things change down there.

 

[Knob Creek]

If I lived in AZ there would be no reporting of shootings. The desert is vast and the holes would be deep. Remember the recent case where a land owner got hosed for "violating civil rights"?

Yeah but with 100,000 members of the Drug Cartel boiling over the border you are got to need lots of ammo and someone to reload for you. This is basically watching a SHTF situation happening in front of us. Obama should deploy troops to the border with orders to shoot on sight anyone crossing the border..... but he won't.
Wait till the refugees start to cross and they get asylum.

 

[cekim]

You are only trading middle-men. Instead of foreign thugs in black garb, you've got corporate suits and ATF agents.

Its a well demonstrated fact that black markets have a higher transaction cost...(i.e. more middle men and/or more expensive middle men to bypass legal gate-keepers with all the of the "risk premium" that comes with that process) So, I don't know what to say to respond other than econ 101 disagrees with you...

What transparency and competition? You've got marijuana, cocaine, heron, and crack. Pretty basic products in their own right, what competition will you have unless you have additives added to them?

Each drug, like food and other manufactured goods will have multiple providers distributed over the US (or even the globe, but we were taking a "buy American" approach )...

I've never used an illegal drug in my life yet I know that "weed is weed" is absolutely false. There are modified plants, different quality growing conditions, etc...

Then there is purity... And non-harmful addatives/drug combination.... (like the variety of OTC cold medicines with various cocktails for various "symptoms")

Plenty of room for market differentiation and competition... Not magic, just economics...

So...we would just come fill circle.

No, we have reproved the failure of regulation which exceeds the threshold beyond which black markets appear...

You can regulate and tax a "market" only so much before a black market appears to take advantage of the arbitrage between the "legal" and "illegal" supply...

Just look at alcohol... Perfect parallel in every way from problem to solution...

 

[clinotus]

Its a well demonstrated fact that black markets have a higher transaction cost...(i.e. more or more expensive middle men to bypass legal gate-keepers with all the of the "risk premium" that comes with that process) So, I don't know what to say other than econ 101...

I liked the snippy comment, but you read it wrong. Its not about economics, its about the trading of enforcement to guarantee that economy.

Each drug, like food and other manufactured goods will have multiple providers distributed over the US...

I've never used an illegal drug in my life yet I know that "weed is weed" is absolutely false. There are modified plants, different quality growing conditions, etc...

Then there is purity... And non-harmful addatives/drug combination.... (like the variety of OTC cold medicines with various cocktails for various "symptoms")

Plenty of room for market differentiation and competition... Not magic, just economics...

So you want to push a variety of drugs on the market instead. That is what you are saying, you are completely agreeing with me here.

No, we have reproved the failure of regulation which exceeds the threshold beyond which black markets appear...

You can regulate and tax a "market" only so much before a black market appears to take advantage of the arbitrage between the "legal" and "illegal" supply...

Just look at alcohol... Perfect parallel in every way from problem to solution...

Look up the price point of distilled alcohol and make that argument again. By your theory, conditions are already ripe for a black market.

 

[cekim]

I liked the snippy comment, but you read it wrong. Its not about economics, its about the trading of enforcement to guarantee that economy.

If done correctly (i.e. minimal) regulation, the economy will "regulate itself"... I am sure there would be FDA and other such things, but these can and have been kept to a dull roar in other arenas (that is in many cases, despite all of our absurd government, the per unit cost of peanut butter, beef, corn, etc... is lower than that of pot, coke, etc...

So you want to push a variety of drugs on the market instead. That is what you are saying, you are completely agreeing with me here.

I am saying that supply and demand should decide with multiple growers, producers, retailers etc... Treating drugs like any other product to remove the revenue stream from 3rd world drug cartels... So, if you agree with that, then I horribly misread your response...

Look up the price point of distilled alcohol and make that argument again. By your theory, conditions are already ripe for a black market.

So, you think there's absolutely no "off-book" distilling going on huh?

It's a continuum, the harder the regs push to increase the cost or completely stamp out the availability of a product, the more black market activity you get... There is indeed illegal distillery going on (I don't drink much, but you hear about raids now and then in the SE). Also, look at cigarettes, from my reading, they are (or at least were a few years ago) a major source of funding for the Russian mob - that and untaxed diesel fuel.

Comparing the "tax" on weed (calling imprisonment, fines, additional transaction cost as a function of cost of illegal importation/production a "tax") to alcohol, you find the per unit government imposed cost of alcohol is still relatively small (and as such, the amount of black-market activity is low)...

Now, if you want to get me confused - ask how it is that black market handguns are so cheap compared to legal ones... If the news media reports are correct there is a nearly 10X market for "legal" firearms and I don't get that...

 

[SteelShooter]

New .gov Security Alert

Just got this in my email

Mexico Travel Alert

U.S. citizens are urged to be alert to safety and security concerns when visiting the border region. Criminals are armed with a wide array of sophisticated weapons. In some cases, assailants have worn full or partial police or military uniforms and have used vehicles that resemble police vehicles. While most crime victims are Mexican citizens, the uncertain security situation poses serious risks for U.S. citizens as well. U.S. citizen victims of crime in Mexico are urged to contact the consular section of the nearest U.S. consulate or Embassy for advice and assistance. Contact information is provided at the end of this message.

 

[Yelena]

I doubt it and most likely like the pharmaceutical companies methods of recouping Research and Development costs, the consumer cost will be staggeringly high. Then add in the taxes on the new revenue stream.

If severe regulations and heavy taxes will be involved, then you are right. I think that only minimal regulation are nesessary, like age restriction, and there is no need for any taxes. Reducing the number of idiots is a good investment, after all.

You almost had me up to the executing them promptly part. We are not China.

Promptly may mean several months instead of decades on a death row. I also think death penalty must be used A LOT more than it is currently used. People's right for protection will also help to bring the number of imates to a minimum.

 

[Sleepytime]

My wife wanted to paln a trip to Puerto Viarta or Cancun... I said, No F'ing way. Number one it isn't safe ANYWHERE YOU GO. And number two, I refuse to give that country any money.

 

[cekim]

And number tow, I refuse to give that country any money.

Too late... [sad2]

 

[Sleepytime]

Ok, I guess I have to re-phrase the...

I refure to willingly give money to that country.

 

[Garys]

The Mexican government is on the verge of collapse, at least in the border areas. The drug cartels have many US trained former Mexican Army Special Ops soldiers in there employ.

Years of failure to deal with the illegal immigrant problem are coming home to roost.

Within 18 months or so it is very likely that we will be at war with Mexico. It will be a short, nasty, war along the border. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if it starts when Texas deploys NG troops to the border in the El Paso area because of incursions by either the Mexican Army, drug enforcers, or both.

The El Paso Times has been covering this for some time now. I recommend their website as must reading.

 

[theGringo]

I have an elderly aunt in El Paso. Hmmm...

 

[richc]

The Mexican government is on the verge of collapse, at least in the border areas. The drug cartels have many US trained former Mexican Army Special Ops soldiers in there employ.

Years of failure to deal with the illegal immigrant problem are coming home to roost.

Within 18 months or so it is very likely that we will be at war with Mexico. It will be a short, nasty, war along the border. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if it starts when Texas deploys NG troops to the border in the El Paso area because of incursions by either the Mexican Army, drug enforcers, or both.

The El Paso Times has been covering this for some time now. I recommend their website as must reading.

Too bad Palin was not elected Vice President. We could have sent her down to the border with her hunting rifles to take care of business! Put some elk heads on a few of them drug cartel members and they'd be dead meat!

Truth is I fully expect this will happen not only in Mexico, but in other countries as well. Economic demise brings out the worst in people, and I suspect we'll see it around the world.

Thanks for sharing.

Rich

 

[Blitz1]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,504139,00.html

U.S. Says Threat of Mexican Drug Cartels Approaching 'Crisis Proportions'

Two of Mexico's deadliest drug cartels have reached a combined force of 100,000 foot soldiers, wreaking havoc across the country and threatening U.S. border states, the U.S. Defense Department told The Washington Times.

The cartels rival the Mexican army in size and have both Mexico and the U.S. in crisis mode as they deal with what they fear is a coming insurgency along the border.

"It's moving to crisis proportions," an unidentified defense official told The Times. The official also said the cartels have reached a size where they are on par with Mexico's army of 130,000.

About 7,000 people have died in the last year — more than 1,000 in January alone — at the hands of Mexico's increasingly violent drug cartels. Murders often involve beheadings or bodies dissolved in vats of acid.

The two most dangerous cartels are the Sinaloa cartel, nicknamed the "Federation" or "Golden Triangle" by law enforcement agencies, and "Los Zetas" (the Gulf Cartel). They have been growing and are reportedly discussing a truce or merger to better withstand government forces, The Times reported.

Mexico is now only behind Pakistan and Iran as a U.S. national security concern, coming in ahead of Afghanistan and Iraq, the defense official told The Times.

The country's attorney general, Eduardo Medina Mora, called last week for more U.S. prosecutions of people who sell weapons illegally to the cartels, as well as more efforts to stop drug profits from flowing south.

Mexico has spent $6.5 billion over the last two years, on top of its normal public security budget, on the fight against drugs, but that falls short of the $10 billion Mexican drug gangs bring in annually, he said.

While violence in Tijuana is down sharply from last year, killings have spiked in the largest border city, Ciudad Juarez. The city of 1.3 million across from El Paso, Texas, is now the most worrisome of a number of hotspots, Medina Mora said.

 

[GSG]

If I lived in AZ there would be no reporting of shootings. The desert is vast and the holes would be deep. Remember the recent case where a land owner got hosed for "violating civil rights"?

IIRC, he shot some kids execution style in the back. Everything else aside, that's something that's pretty easy to get "hosed" for, IMO.

Legalizing drugs wont solve the problem, we have problems breaking up gangs here with our current law enforcement tools and laws.

We have problems breaking up gangs only because our government supports them.

Gangs have been around since the beginning of time. Until we legalize piracy, home invasions, murder-for-hire, car theft, child prostitution, carjackings, etc., gangs will have an unlimited supply of money and business.

Look at MS-13, the gang will even go to war with itself over gang territory disputes. This is a complex sub-culture that lives by a completely different set of rules than you and I.

Even with regs, the product will be made cheaper by virtue of removing the cost of illegal importation as well as the various monopolies imposed by the "cartel" structure... Think of all the middle-men you remove as well as the "security" costs of smuggling and then protection from rival illegal importers (and/or pirates).

Price transparency and competition work very well in such a "commodity" market (i.e. cost and expertise required for production are low - as such barrier to entry into the market is low and competition will be fierce).

I don't buy this.

Why buy "dirty" Mexican black tar heroin for $5 or $10 per hit when you can buy "clean" Oxycontin for $50 to $80 per hit? Quite simply, price.

Addicts don't care about clean. I've seen people with open infected sores shooting up, while their friend watches and waits to put the same dirty bloody needle in their arm next. All they want is a high, and when they get hooked, all the care about is a high. The cheaper they can get it, the more they can do it, the more of an addict they become.

If drugs were legalized tomorrow, it would be with prescriptions, doctors, FDA, compliance inspections, and everything else that goes with the legal drugs that are on the market today. So gangs could go out and forge prescriptions for heroin/crack/weed, then turn around and sell it for profit, things they already do for desirable prescription drugs. De-regulating drugs won't regulate criminals any more than regulating drugs will de-regulate criminals.

Gangs will be gangs. As long as we have sh*thole neighborhoods with "stop snitching" campaigns, "baby mommas," poverty, misery and everything else, there will be gangs. There will always be a new way to break the law and make money, and there will always be males aged 16-25 with more balls than brains.

Yeah but with 100,000 members of the Drug Cartel boiling over the border you are got to need lots of ammo and someone to reload for you. This is basically watching a SHTF situation happening in front of us. Obama should deploy troops to the border with orders to shoot on sight anyone crossing the border..... but he won't.
Wait till the refugees start to cross and they get asylum.

I agree. Seal the effing border. Seal it. That's what makes it a border. Look at East Germany, they had razorwire fences, minefields, machine guns and order to shoot onsite for crossers. Even with people trying to escape from inside the country, they didn't get through that border.

 

[cekim]

I don't buy this.

Why buy "dirty" Mexican black tar heroin for $5 or $10 per hit when you can buy "clean" Oxycontin for $50 to $80 per hit? Quite simply, price.

Well, there are plenty of ways to do it wrong and you are right - our government specializes in that (doing it wrong). The issue you are bringing up is a broader problem with drugs in general which is our patent/anti-trust system with drugs that is completely broken...

So, the question of "who owns the patent on weed?" is an interesting one and could have sweeping ramifications to the legalization process...

It won't be simple, it won't be easy and it won't likely be done right at first, but none of those are viable arguments to keep going down the path we are on. It won't work, no matter how imperfect the other choices are. It is more "imperfect"... To any who say it won't work, the illegal market will still exist - I say "yes it will, but what proportion of the over all market will it be?" Alcohol prohibition was no different and the end of that serves as the model for what we need to do here...

Gangs will be gangs. As long as we have sh*thole neighborhoods with "stop snitching" campaigns, "baby mommas," poverty, misery and everything else, there will be gangs. There will always be a new way to break the law and make money, and there will always be males aged 16-25 with more balls than brains.

Initially? Yes, they will... In the long term, no they won't. Look at alcohol... While the "gangs" in power retained their power many of them turned into "legitmate businesses" (or Senators and then their children presidents).

But "the mob" had to move on to other black markets and their influence declined until they found other black markets (labor, coke, cigarettes, etc... ).

Gangs have to "provide" for their own or they cannot exist. You have the "radicals" at the top who are never going to function in normal society - they are always going to be criminals, but most of their followers are just along for the ride. If they can't get "theirs", they turn coat and move on...

No different than most sub-sets of the human race - few are leaders, most are followers. Those that follow are perfectly willing to eat their own, shoot their friends and embrace their opposing ideology if you keep them fat dumb and happy...

 

[9000S]

EARS BURNING!!!

Good grief. And our own member 9000S is a very new (or maybe still in school?) Border Patrol agent down in AZ. Hope he's OK... and keeps his head low.

Always keep it low, and dont worry im doing ok! Thanks for the concern, Im sure my level IIIA Body armor will stop 7.62x39 But don't get paid if killed on duty and not wearing it. Over 600K I think in insurance not being paid out to family.... That would suck. People mentioning my boy barnett? Yeah, hes got a massive amount of land and a ranch that illegals plow through all the time. Dope runners too in his area. He's in a court case right now for "illegal detention" 4th amendment violation etc. He's always armed, and has a dog too.
He's got his own sensors, bought his own scope truck unit, and calls in traffic alot for us to go work. I suppose I shouldn't pose my views very openly on a forum now. But yeah living down here and listening to the stories is a big eye opener...
Im waiting till a few agents get killed, and we get the carte blanche to deal with drive through and armed incursions at our own discretion. Someone mentioned sniper training too.... my K98 scoped is balls on at 300meters. I would love to go take a walk with 150rnds some water and some powerbars. but well cant quite do that now can we...on shift at any rate

 

[9000S]

"There is no down side for having a porous border with our friends to the south"
"We need illeagal immagrants as they do all the lousy jobs"...

Working in processing and rolling people through NCIC IAFIS and CIS, I find a lotta shitbags, drunks, rapists, dealers and stuff like that. We do not need any more porosity in our border than we already have. Getting slammed down here in douglas, pushing out over 200 people today. And its not even the warm season for traffic yet....

 

[Yelena]

Gangs have been around since the beginning of time. Until we legalize piracy, home invasions, murder-for-hire, car theft, child prostitution, carjackings, etc., gangs will have an unlimited supply of money and business.

All we need is a right to protect our lives, our homes, our cars, our children. A right to kill whoever breaks into your home or car, and whoever attempts to harm you or your loved ones. Gangs CAN be controlled. If commies could do it in USSR, we can do it, too. All we need to do is to protect our people from domestic and foreign criminals. And we DO have resources to protect our borders.
Mexican drug dealers in Mexico is a Mexican problem, not ours. Our business is only keeping them out of our territory, period.

 

[9000S]

All we need is a right to protect our lives, our homes, our cars, our children. A right to kill whoever breaks into your home or car, and whoever attempts to harm you or your loved ones. Gangs CAN be controlled. If commies could do it in USSR, we can do it, too. All we need to do is to protect our people from domestic and foreign criminals. And we DO have resources to protect our borders.
Mexican drug dealers in Mexico is a Mexican problem, not ours. Our business is only keeping them out of our territory, period.

You make me warm and fuzzy! And dang went to school in RI for a while too....

 

[Jedhed]

IIRC, he shot some kids execution style in the back. Everything else aside, that's something that's pretty easy to get "hosed" for, IMO.

Maybe this is the case TomH was referring to... or, maybe not.

16 illegals sue Arizona rancher
Claim violation of rights as they crossed his land
Jerry Seper (Contact)
Monday, February 9, 2009

An Arizona man who has waged a 10-year campaign to stop a flood of illegal immigrants from crossing his property is being sued by 16 Mexican nationals who accuse him of conspiring to violate their civil rights when he stopped them at gunpoint on his ranch on the U.S.-Mexico border.

Roger Barnett, 64, began rounding up illegal immigrants in 1998 and turning them over to the U.S. Border Patrol, he said, after they destroyed his property, killed his calves and broke into his home.

His Cross Rail Ranch near Douglas, Ariz., is known by federal and county law enforcement authorities as "the avenue of choice" for immigrants seeking to enter the United States illegally.

Trial continues Monday in the federal lawsuit, which seeks $32 million in actual and punitive damages for civil rights violations, the infliction of emotional distress and other crimes. Also named are Mr. Barnett's wife, Barbara, his brother, Donald, and Larry Dever, sheriff in Cochise County, Ariz., where the Barnetts live. The civil trial is expected to continue until Friday.

The lawsuit is based on a March 7, 2004, incident in a dry wash on the 22,000-acre ranch, when he approached a group of illegal immigrants while carrying a gun and accompanied by a large dog.

Attorneys for the immigrants - five women and 11 men who were trying to cross illegally into the United States - have accused Mr. Barnett of holding the group captive at gunpoint, threatening to turn his dog loose on them and saying he would shoot anyone who tried to escape.

The immigrants are represented at trial by the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (MALDEF), which also charged that Sheriff Dever did nothing to prevent Mr. Barnett from holding their clients at "gunpoint, yelling obscenities at them and kicking one of the women."

In the lawsuit, MALDEF said Mr. Barnett approached the group as the immigrants moved through his property, and that he was carrying a pistol and threatening them in English and Spanish. At one point, it said, Mr. Barnett's dog barked at several of the women and he yelled at them in Spanish, "My dog is hungry and he's hungry for buttocks."

The lawsuit said he then called his wife and two Border Patrol agents arrived at the site. It also said Mr. Barnett acknowledged that he had turned over 12,000 illegal immigrants to the Border Patrol since 1998.

In March, U.S. District Judge John Roll rejected a motion by Mr. Barnett to have the charges dropped, ruling there was sufficient evidence to allow the matter to be presented to a jury. Mr. Barnett's attorney, David Hardy, had argued that illegal immigrants did not have the same rights as U.S. citizens.

Mr. Barnett told The Washington Times in a 2002 interview that he began rounding up illegal immigrants after they started to vandalize his property, northeast of Douglas along Arizona Highway 80. He said the immigrants tore up water pumps, killed calves, destroyed fences and gates, stole trucks and broke into his home.

Some of his cattle died from ingesting the plastic bottles left behind by the immigrants, he said, adding that he installed a faucet on an 8,000-gallon water tank so the immigrants would stop damaging the tank to get water.

Mr. Barnett said some of the ranch´s established immigrant trails were littered with trash 10 inches deep, including human waste, used toilet paper, soiled diapers, cigarette packs, clothes, backpacks, empty 1-gallon water bottles, chewing-gum wrappers and aluminum foil - which supposedly is used to pack the drugs the immigrant smugglers give their "clients" to keep them running.

He said he carried a pistol during his searches for the immigrants and had a rifle in his truck "for protection" against immigrant and drug smugglers, who often are armed.


ASSOCIATED PRESS DEFENDANT: Roger Barnett said he had turned over 12,000 illegal immigrants to the Border Patrol since 1998.

A former Cochise County sheriff´s deputy who later was successful in the towing and propane business, Mr. Barnett spent $30,000 on electronic sensors, which he has hidden along established trails on his ranch. He searches the ranch for illegal immigrants in a pickup truck, dressed in a green shirt and camouflage hat, with his handgun and rifle, high-powered binoculars and a walkie-talkie.

His sprawling ranch became an illegal-immigration highway when the Border Patrol diverted its attention to several border towns in an effort to take control of the established ports of entry. That effort moved the illegal immigrants to the remote areas of the border, including the Cross Rail Ranch.

"This is my land. I´m the victim here," Mr. Barnett said. "When someone´s home and loved ones are in jeopardy and the government seemingly can´t do anything about it, I feel justified in taking matters into my own hands. And I always watch my back."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/09/16-illegals-sue-arizona-rancher/