Update 3/8/09 - It's SHTF Time On The Mexican Border

[K-DUB]

Solution: Let people sign up to patrol the border, donating their own time, own gun, & own ammo. They can stay on the border for a week or two at a time, & can fire at will at any person trying to invade. I can guarantee that there would be plenty of volunteers, & a waiting list.

I know I'd sign up for a little vacation on the border.

 

[Bob P]

No one is arguing that drug dealers and traffickers will suddenly take up tennis and stop their criminal ways...

The reality is that the alcohol parallel is correct, but you have to look far deeper than "bad people will do bad things".

You have to look at the economics that allow them to operate outside of society. The drug traffic creates an alternate job market, currency and "citizenship". In effect a nation operating within a nation.

Even in the world of "bad guys", 99% are sheep 1% are wolves. Take away the economic engine behind the wolf and he can't keep a flock around him.

The transition will be rough, there will likely be an increase in property and violent crime initially, but if the international drug trade is brought to its knees by making things 1/100th or less the price they are now, their ability to impose their "bad guy" will on everyone else will be vastly diminished...

This is a multi-generational problem that we have made far worse by continuing it as long as we have... You aren't going to win the war, you aren't going to stop the black market, so we need to look at the end-game here. Find the "least worst" way to get to a better place. There are no "good" options. Only less bad...

Bravo!

Legalizing them will dry up a MAJOR source of income for the baddies. Will there still be a black market? Sure, as pointed out there's still no tax cigs and moonshine. How big a market is it though? Right now the illegals are the only game in town for this stuff. Legalizing it - at the very lease legalizing pot - opens an alternative for what I'm sure is the majority of users. How many of these people are going to risk arrest if they've got a legal source of pot - one that has some basic quality control guarantees?

People will be doing this as long as it's profitable. Take the money away and the source of profit drys up. It will still exist but the underground economy will shrink considerably as demand drops.

 

[Shooter28]

I don't care if this sounds insensitive, but the gloves NEED TO COME OFF. This has gone on for far too long with ZERO results.

Shoot at anything that crosses the border illegally. Execute any and all traffickers making any attempt to come into the U.S. This is already impacting this country with the influx in mexican gangs and drugs flowing into this country.

This needs to stop now, before we are all fighting them on our streets.

+1000

 

[GSG]

Diamonds are still rare, or at least in controlled distribution. Plants (drugs) are plentiful.

Diamonds are plentiful, but the market is controlled to keep the prices up.

Like Metalhead said (see below text of his post), nothing's untaxed here.

Even if pot were legalized it would be so heavily taxed that there would be a black market demand. Cigarettes are legal and there is a black market demand for packs without any tax stamp. Booze is legal and yet people still make and sell moonshine.

Solution: Let people sign up to patrol the border, donating their own time, own gun, & own ammo. They can stay on the border for a week or two at a time, & can fire at will at any person trying to invade. I can guarantee that there would be plenty of volunteers, & a waiting list.

I know I'd sign up for a little vacation on the border.

Sign me up!

 

[Blitz1]

NES Road trip?

 

[SemiAutoSam]

Your hired, Meet ya in Texas.

Bring your best long range rifle in 308, Ill bring mine and a few spares for any stragglers you pickup along the way.

Solution: Let people sign up to patrol the border, donating their own time, own gun, & own ammo. They can stay on the border for a week or two at a time, & can fire at will at any person trying to invade. I can guarantee that there would be plenty of volunteers, & a waiting list.

I know I'd sign up for a little vacation on the border.

 

[mikem317]

To those who believe that legalization is the answer....Let me ask you this....Who is it that will be purchasing these legalized drugs? The answer, Addicts. Now where, you may ask, will these "addicts" get the money to purchase legalized drugs? Well, there are several possibilities.
1) They will work for it (not likely. After all, they are addicts).
2) They will be deemed "addicts" thus "disabled" and our taxpayers will foot the bill. Perfect for those who support Socialized medicine. Just what I want to do, pay for some junkie to stay high for the rest of his life.
3) They will rob, steal, embezzle, threaten,murder, and intimidate to get it. This is the most likely solution. After all, that's what they do now.

I think you ought to do more research and come into the conservation without the typical close-minded rhetoric if want to contribute something meaningful to the conversation.

Admonishing and stereotyping isn't solving anything.

 

[TonyDedo]

Bravo!

Legalizing them will dry up a MAJOR source of income for the baddies. Will there still be a black market? Sure, as pointed out there's still no tax cigs and moonshine. How big a market is it though? Right now the illegals are the only game in town for this stuff. Legalizing it - at the very lease legalizing pot - opens an alternative for what I'm sure is the majority of users. How many of these people are going to risk arrest if they've got a legal source of pot - one that has some basic quality control guarantees?

People will be doing this as long as it's profitable. Take the money away and the source of profit dries up. It will still exist but the underground economy will shrink considerably as demand drops.

How long do you think it will take, upon the legalization of marijuana, for Phillip Morris and every other suffering tobacco company to clear a sizable percentage of their fields and start growing pot? They'd seize the market from Mexico within a matter of months. With a (relatively) reputable domestic supplier, demand for the drug from south of the border would plummet. And as people have mentioned, without a business to fight over, the drug cartels would quickly fade away.

Even if pot were legalized it would be so heavily taxed that there would be a black market demand. Cigarettes are legal and there is a black market demand for packs without any tax stamp. Booze is legal and yet people still make and sell moonshine.

Possibly. There will always be an opportunity for a black market if goods can be gotten cheaper. But alcohol, tobacco and gasoline are all heavily taxed in this country, and no one is going to war to control the underground market because the demand just isn't there - most consumers will choose a legit product over a blackmarket product for a whole host of reasons.

Ultimately the violence in Mexico comes down to one root cause, and it's the same root cause for violence EVERYWHERE. Economics - more specifically, poverty.

Do you think these stupid f***s who are getting shot, stabbed and beheaded are doing it because they get job satisfaction out of their work? No, they're doing it because they're dirt poor, uneducated and have few opportunities to make a living. They can either pick avocados or sell t-shirts to tourists for a few pennies a day and starve to death, or they can join the drug trade and take a stab at making some real money. Take away the money, and 90% of them will go elsewhere.

The same thing is happening in the Middle East - do you think young Palestinians would be flocking to Hamas and blowing themselves to Allah if they had a decent job and a 401(k)? f*** no! But they're in a besieged country with 50% unemployment, they're poor, pissed off, and the only ones who will let them earn a dollar are the terrorists.

Desperate people will do anything to make a dollar.

 

[GSG]

Do you think these stupid f***s who are getting shot, stabbed and beheaded are doing it because they get job satisfaction out of their work? No, they're doing it because they're dirt poor, uneducated and have few opportunities to make a living. They can either pick avocados or sell t-shirts to tourists for a few pennies a day and starve to death, or they can join the drug trade and take a stab at making some real money.

There's very little money to be made in the drug trade as a street level dealer/soldier. They typically make enough to just barely support their own habit. The higher ups can make money at it, if they don't get killed or imprisoned, which usually happens anyway.