Two Navy SEALs missing at sea after ship-boarding mission off Somalia...

[PappyM3]

Welp, might be useful to at least go back to 2013 in Yemen to see causing & effect....The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, our buddies, the UK & the US have poured hundreds of billions of dollars in 'warbucks' to rain down destruction of the Houthi’s with little effect. So let's the solution get mad, blame Iran.... Does history mean anything?

True, but Iran wasn’t blameless in the Yemen proxy war either.

 

[DPR]

I don’t believe there will ever be a solution to the Middle East.

The less we do there results in people dying and costing us money

The more we do there results in people dying and costing us money.

The non-stop mini-wars, invasions. attacks, defend, etc are just changing the variables of who spends their money and who gets killed. I give zero f***s to those over there creating such a mess because a man in the sky told them to.

Thank you to those sailors and all those serving that travel the globe and put their lives on the line doing so.

 

[Picton]

So no, Biden IS responsible for the deaths of Americans and IS incapable of assembling a solid foreign policy cabinet.

That's a bit far. Blaming Biden for this directly is like blaming Smith & Wesson when some whacko uses one of their products to shoot someone: it's not S&W's fault.

In much the way we blame the shooter and not the manufacturer, these deaths were caused because a sailor lost his footing.

Of course, Biden's decisions and non-decisions suck, and of course that leads to problems downrange. But you could say that about any president. It all depends on your point of view.

 

[crazymjb]

That's a bit far. Blaming Biden for this directly is like blaming Smith & Wesson when some whacko uses one of their products to shoot someone: it's not S&W's fault.

In much the way we blame the shooter and not the manufacturer, these deaths were caused because a sailor lost his footing.

Of course, Biden's decisions and non-decisions suck, and of course that leads to problems downrange. But you could say that about any president. It all depends on your point of view.

I’d say the recent fatalities in Jordan fall in to the Biden Adminsitration decision/non-decision making. The ME is a growing dumpster fire.

 

[Picton]

I’d say the recent fatalities in Jordan fall in to the Biden Adminsitration decision/non-decision making. The ME is a growing dumpster fire.

I posted elsewhere that I'd be very surprised if Brandon even knew we had guys on the ground in Jordan. I'm being serious.

That, to me, strikes me as exactly the kind of thing his handlers would have kept from him. Because they would not have wanted to risk him leaking it as part of a rambling anecdote about CornPop or something.

I agree that it's still ultimately his responsibility, of course, if he's running an administration so incompetent that it can't handle force protection for guys on outpost duty in the desert somewhere. Or if he's got so little control over the Pentagon that they're making deployments without telling him. I'm wondering now how long we've had guys out on that OP.

 

[crazymjb]

I don’t know how “secret” it was, but the cat is definitely out of the bag now from what I have seen in reporting. CENTCOM is a f*** show at the moment. I follow a lot of OSINT pages and they do a pretty good job picking up on the goings on over there. The American public is entirely clueless to it.

 

[PappyM3]

I posted elsewhere that I'd be very surprised if Brandon even knew we had guys on the ground in Jordan. I'm being serious.

That, to me, strikes me as exactly the kind of thing his handlers would have kept from him. Because they would not have wanted to risk him leaking it as part of a rambling anecdote about CornPop or something.

…

It’s no secret that we have troops in Jordan. But I agree that he probably had no clue that we did.

 

[jkelly1229]

TLDR

Yes, Biden’s policies and ineffectual public image have resulted in a lot of the open violence against U.S. interests worldwide. He took the Houthis off the terror list, he’s capitulated to Iran, etc etc.

But if we want to use history, let’s keep going back and just blame Britain or the way they broke up the Ottoman Empire.

Bottom line, Biden did not force the Houthis to attack all commercial shipping near the Bab el-Mandeb Strait. That was theirs and Iran’s choice. Biden ordering military action to stop the attacks and defend the shipping lane is not a wrong move.

No but the iranians did with the funding released to them as part of the shitty nuclear deal we re entered

 

[jkelly1229]

That's a bit far. Blaming Biden for this directly is like blaming Smith & Wesson when some whacko uses one of their products to shoot someone: it's not S&W's fault.

In much the way we blame the shooter and not the manufacturer, these deaths were caused because a sailor lost his footing.

Of course, Biden's decisions and non-decisions suck, and of course that leads to problems downrange. But you could say that about any president. It all depends on your point of view.

I mean... he released 6 billion in funds... and now terrorism is happening

And when asked how the funds were going to be allocated to humanitarian aid the mullah said we are going to use it how we see fit

Pretty direct line corrolation there

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

TLDR

Yes, Biden’s policies and ineffectual public image have resulted in a lot of the open violence against U.S. interests worldwide. He took the Houthis off the terror list, he’s capitulated to Iran, etc etc.

But if we want to use history, let’s keep going back and just blame Britain or the way they broke up the Ottoman Empire.

Bottom line, Biden did not force the Houthis to attack all commercial shipping near the Bab el-Mandeb Strait. That was theirs and Iran’s choice. Biden ordering military action to stop the attacks and defend the shipping lane is not a wrong move.

History is not your strong suit, and neither is reading. It might be worth reading at least some before posting this. Your argument on how far back in history you can go is amateurish and lacks any kind of backing or explanation. As a result, you've posted another useless challenge just for the sake of "Oh, I'll show that 40 Creedmore!"

 

[PappyM3]

History is not your strong suit, and neither is reading. It might be worth reading at least some before posting this. Your argument on how far back in history you can go is amateurish and lacks any kind of backing or explanation. As a result, you've posted another useless challenge just for the sake of "Oh, I'll show that 40 Creedmore!"

Okay

I mean... he released 6 billion in funds... and now terrorism is happening

And when asked how the funds were going to be allocated to humanitarian aid the mullah said we are going to use it how we see fit

Pretty direct line corrolation there

That’s definitely the biggest link of responsibility to President Biden, er, the Biden administration. I specify that because I don’t think he’s actually making any decisions. Buck stops at him though.

 

[Admin]

Lindsey has never met anyone's kids he didn't want to send in to harms way.

 

[jkelly1229]

Okay



That’s definitely the biggest link of responsibility to President Biden, er, the Biden administration. I specify that because I don’t think he’s actually making any decisions. Buck stops at him though.

Idk i see things that counter this thought

Day to day policy no he isn't responsible for it

However there are some things that he most definitely controls

The border being open is 100% on him he fixes that with a phone call

Afghan pull out... his directive was get out now which was obviously botched

Now if you want to tell me china is funneling him millions to do these things I'll entertain that idea

But he's directly responsible because he's a spineless shitheel who won't do anything.

Under bush we were actively killing anyone who got out of line in the region the iranians were pretty quiet

Under barry we were a little more apologetic and they acted up more to the point where we released a cyber virus that crippled world infrastructure

Under djt we killed an irg general and said we will do it again iran was well behaved


Under biden he threw cash at them like a rapper in a strip club and shows no real leadership, direction, or spine... so they are acting out again


They are an annoying regime and would act up until smacked up under any potus... but he won't do it so this iteration of them being annoying is his fault

 

[PappyM3]

Idk i see things that counter this thought

Day to day policy no he isn't responsible for it

However there are some things that he most definitely controls

The border being open is 100% on him he fixes that with a phone call

Afghan pull out... his directive was get out now which was obviously botched

Now if you want to tell me china is funneling him millions to do these things I'll entertain that idea

But he's directly responsible because he's a spineless shitheel who won't do anything.

Under bush we were actively killing anyone who got out of line in the region the iranians were pretty quiet

Under barry we were a little more apologetic and they acted up more to the point where we released a cyber virus that crippled world infrastructure

Under djt we killed an irg general and said we will do it again iran was well behaved


Under biden he threw cash at them like a rapper in a strip club and shows no real leadership, direction, or spine... so they are acting out again


They are an annoying regime and would act up until smacked up under any potus... but he won't do it so this iteration of them being annoying is his fault

100% agree that he could stop things with a phone call on the border. It is completely within his power to close it up without additional funding.

I didn’t mean like the border patrol was doing its own thing. I meant his administration, as in his cabinet and advisors in the White House are making decisions for him, because his brain is mush.

You’re probably right that it was his call to immediately pull out of Afghanistan with zero plan and to not even let our allies know. I think he was also directly responsible for putting pressure on the Intel community to find those responsible for the gate attack immediately, which lead to innocent deaths in the drone strike he ordered. All that was early enough in his term that his brain was only partially tapioca.

I do give President Trump a lot of credit for being a “dove” with a big stick on the world stage. It was a peaceful time because of the U.S.’ projected image while he was in office. He also actually pursued peace, as shown by meeting Kim Jong Un. All that said, part of Iran’s current attacks on the U.S. in the region are a result of President Trump ordering the strike on Soleimani. I think it was a completely legitimate strike and warranted. But if we’re honest with ourselves, we’re currently experiencing some of the blowback from it.

 

[crazymjb]

I would not say Iran was well behaved under DJT. May I remind you of the massive TBM strike on AAAB, and the military failure of having adequate missile defense in place… which I’ll add they did prior to the January 20th TBM attack on AAAB which had something like 15 patriot interceptions. These didn’t “originate” from Iranian launch sites, but I find it highly unlikely the “Iraqi resistance” groups are manufacturing their own complex ballistic missiles.

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

I don’t believe there will ever be a solution to the Middle East.

Middle-East peace has a solution. It's just that nobody, the US, China, or Europe, wants that. Here are the basic truths:

• Make peace with Israel and establish economic relationships with the nation, or perish. Those who do will become wealthy, and those who do not will be absorbed into other countries.
• There is no peace with a "two-state solution." Israel should lay claim to the West Bank and give people there a choice: become Israelis of f*** off. Gaza can go to Egypt in the same fashion: become Egyptians or f*** off.
• Take all assets of HAMAS leaders and give them to the families of all Israelis who lost family members due to HAMAS's actions.
• Remove ayatollahs in Iran and take away all their money. Any nation that sponsors fighters in other countries is an automatic target for takeover.

The primary spigot of violence in the Middle East is the "Palestinian problem." Everything else is secondary. Take that spigot away, and the Middle East will become a world economic power center. They have the resources(oil), transportation supremacy, and a technological powerhouse(Israel). There is no other region that has so many things going for it, and this is why the majority of world powers don't want this powerhouse to emerge.

 

[jkelly1229]

100% agree that he could stop things with a phone call on the border. It is completely within his power to close it up without additional funding.

I didn’t mean like the border patrol was doing its own thing. I meant his administration, as in his cabinet and advisors in the White House are making decisions for him, because his brain is mush.

You’re probably right that it was his call to immediately pull out of Afghanistan with zero plan and to not even let our allies know. I think he was also directly responsible for putting pressure on the Intel community to find those responsible for the gate attack immediately, which lead to innocent deaths in the drone strike he ordered. All that was early enough in his term that his brain was only partially tapioca.

I do give President Trump a lot of credit for being a “dove” with a big stick on the world stage. It was a peaceful time because of the U.S.’ projected image while he was in office. He also actually pursued peace, as shown by meeting Kim Jong Un. All that said, part of Iran’s current attacks on the U.S. in the region are a result of President Trump ordering the strike on Soleimani. I think it was a completely legitimate strike and warranted. But if we’re honest with ourselves, we’re currently experiencing some of the blowback from it.

Yeah i agree in that regard.

I think the bigger thing that really sparked it was again trump but the abraham accords

The iranians don't like the saudis in them... so they wanted this mess to keep the saudis out of it.

But it also seems like they didn't think it would be that successful and now they need to show the rest of their proxies they will back them... and they don't want hamas gone.

Idk the Iranians werent going to behave they wanted a weak president

Biden is that weak president

Which would be fine if he didn't tout himself as this great foreign leader

 

[jkelly1229]

I would not say Iran was well behaved under DJT. May I remind you of the massive TBM strike on AAAB, and the military failure of having adequate missile defense in place… which I’ll add they did prior to the January 20th TBM attack on AAAB which had something like 15 patriot interceptions. These didn’t “originate” from Iranian launch sites, but I find it highly unlikely the “Iraqi resistance” groups are manufacturing their own complex ballistic missiles.

Im over simplifying but that is what led to the general getting his face on candid drone camera

 

[PappyM3]

Yeah i agree in that regard.

I think the bigger thing that really sparked it was again trump but the abraham accords

The iranians don't like the saudis in them... so they wanted this mess to keep the saudis out of it.
…

Pretty sure this is the primary reason Iran gave Humus the green light for 7 October, and likely told them to be brutal in order to evoke a big response from Israel. Thus forcing the Saudi’s hand.

 

[jkelly1229]

Pretty sure this is the primary reason Iran gave Humus the green light for 7 October, and likely told them to be brutal in order to evoke a big response from Israel. Thus forcing the Saudi’s hand.

Ive no idea but the podcasts i listen to seem to think it is the case lol.

I'm not going to pretend to be up on the dealings over there enough to know 100%

 

[crazymjb]

Im over simplifying but that is what led to the general getting his face on candid drone camera

The TBM strike was the response that the us did not adequately anticipate or prepare for. I’m not saying Biden’s current Middle East policy isn’t awful, but DTs admin wasn’t exactly crushing it.

 

[Picton]

I mean... he released 6 billion in funds... and now terrorism is happening

And when asked how the funds were going to be allocated to humanitarian aid the mullah said we are going to use it how we see fit

Pretty direct line corrolation there

Well, except that every President since Jefferson has been pretty vigorous in sending the US Navy to the aid of American merchants overseas. This Red Sea/Arabian Sea/Horn of Africa mission has been in place in one form or another, for many, many years, since long before Biden was president.

That particular operation has probably seen SEALs board pirate ships dozens of times, under more Presidents than Biden. This time, a couple of SEALs ended up in the drink. It could have happened any other time, under any other President.

 

[jkelly1229]

Well, except that every President since Jefferson has been pretty vigorous in sending the US Navy to the aid of American merchants overseas. This Red Sea/Arabian Sea/Horn of Africa mission has been in place for many, many years, since long before Biden was president.

That particular operation has probably seen SEALs board pirate ships dozens of times, under more Presidents than Biden. This time, a couple of SEALs ended up in the drink. It could have happened any other time, under any other President.

Uhuh it didn't though... because some suck less than others lol

We cant not send troops into harms way in some circumstances but we can mitigate the times we need to do it and the risks involved.

 

[Boghog1]

What they were after

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Picton]

Hmm.

I'm in favor of stopping Iranian arms shipments to the Houthis, and I'm fine with summary execution of pirates and smugglers and all that, plus confiscation of their cargo.

But what gives the US any kind of jurisdiction in this case? If Iran wants to ship stuff to a rebel group, and that shipment is disrupted in the Arabian Sea... then why is the trial taking place in Richmond, VA? Under US law? When the offense wasn't committed in the USA?

I'm just not sure how that all works. I'd be interested to find out.

 

[Andy in NH]

What they were after

MSN

www.msn.com

Mission accomplished at a great cost.

 

[PappyM3]

Hmm.

I'm in favor of stopping Iranian arms shipments to the Houthis, and I'm fine with summary execution of pirates and smugglers and all that, plus confiscation of their cargo.

But what gives the US any kind of jurisdiction in this case? If Iran wants to ship stuff to a rebel group, and that shipment is disrupted in the Arabian Sea... then why is the trial taking place in Richmond, VA? Under US law? When the offense wasn't committed in the USA?

I'm just not sure how that all works. I'd be interested to find out.

I don’t think it’s really cut and dry. Ambiguous legality. There is a UN arms embargo against the Houthis, but plenty don’t accept the practice of prosecuting people who are arrested abroad.

I don’t know enough about it all to speak to any of it, just share some possibly relevant links.

Loading…

www.reuters.com

Loading…

www.ohchr.org

Personal jurisdiction over international defendants in the United States - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[PappyM3]

Also the fact that the he Houthis have been declared a terrorist organization may be justification enough from the U.S.’ perspective.

 

[MAGA99]

I don’t think it’s really cut and dry. Ambiguous legality. There is a UN arms embargo against the Houthis, but plenty don’t accept the practice of prosecuting people who are arrested abroad.

I don’t know enough about it all to speak to any of it, just share some possibly relevant links.

Loading…

www.reuters.com

Loading…

www.ohchr.org

Personal jurisdiction over international defendants in the United States - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I don’t see why we don’t just sink any boat headed for the houtis. f*** em. Don’t even have to announce it, just make ship go to bottom, ensure no survivors. Done.

 

[Picton]

I don’t see why we don’t just sink any boat headed for the houtis. f*** em. Don’t even have to announce it, just make ship go to bottom, ensure no survivors. Done.

I'd be more comfortable with that than with dragging them back to Virginia to be tried at my expense.

The idea that pirates (and, usually, smugglers) are persona non grata has a long international history. Pirates are everybody's enemy, to be attacked and sunk without regard for whatever state they may belong to. So far, the international community has been doing just that in the approaches to the Red Sea, but for some reason they're pussyfooting around with this Iranian smuggling thing.

Over 200 years ago we went to war against the Tripolitans over this kind of issue. I'm not in favor of war with Iran, but it's pretty clear the status quo ain't working. I just don't see how my government has jurisdiction over some Arabian sailor in the Indian Ocean.