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Oceans... are big 2 dudes floating in the water even if you have a beacon would be hard to find
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Two Navy SEALs missing at sea after ship-boarding mission off Somalia...
- Thread starter Andy in NH
- Start date
Coda
NES Member
If you are a resident of Western MA then this hits home.
Two very brave men just trying to protect the rest of us.
R.I.P.
www.wwlp.com
Two very brave men just trying to protect the rest of us.
R.I.P.
Navy SEAL presumed dead off Somalia coast was on swim team for Westfield High and UMass Amherst
A Westfield High School graduate and former UMass Amherst student has been identified as one of the Navy SEALs who died in the Arabian Sea.
www.wwlp.com
DitchDigger
NES Member
RIP Frogmen,,,
I mean, if there's anyone in the world who should be well-trained in the art of NOT sinking while laden with gear, it should be Navy SEALs. This raises many questions that I'm not qualified to answer.
RIP.
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For their sakes I hope they went over board and drowned... cant think of a worse thing than bobbing in the water for 2 days and then drowning
The ocean is really vast its really hard to spot something as small as a person or 2
I'm not pretending like I'm some great seaman
But I've been in small planes over the ocean it would be really hard to find someone floating in it
I'd be very surprised to learn that there was not an airborne ISR platform with FLIR and/or thermal capability orbiting the target ship.
I'd also be surprised if there wasn't another dedicated small boat following in trail of the target ship tasked with responding to just such a contingency.
Maybe there were and yet the tragedy still happened?
I'd also be surprised if there wasn't another dedicated small boat following in trail of the target ship tasked with responding to just such a contingency.
Maybe there were and yet the tragedy still happened?
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556USER
NES Member
Truth. This i why when someone goes into the water you don't take your eyes off of them or you assign someone else to keep them in sight. You can lose sight of a person's head very easily in choppy seas or low light conditions. Persons in the water have had multiple search planes pass right over them before finally being seen. Have to wonder how many watched planes pass over and never were seen?
NHKevin
NES Member
There's nothing to negotiate. We could just vacate the area.
Yep.
Questions like that.
I'd never take anything away from the valor of those men or the bravery of any other SEALs, but this narrative raises eyebrows. Remember when Pat Tillman was struck by enemy fire?
Sad they're dead; sadder if there's something else going on.
And continue to let the Houthis attack and seize commercial shipping? This is such a vital waterway for commerce. Virtually everything that transits the Suez will also transit through the Bab al-Mandab Strait.
Look, the Biden administration has messed up plenty. But this isn’t his war that he’s starting and many could criticize the administration for failing to act sooner; not protecting and defending our commercial ships sooner. The biggest thing they did wrong with Yemen was taking the Houthis off the terrorist organization list just because Trump had put them on.
The Navy is just doing its job out there, protecting waterways and making them safe for commerce and freedom of navigation.
One of the VERY few good reasons for the US to have built a blue-water navy over 200 years ago was to protect US trade wherever our merchants sailed.
That is no less of a concern in 2024. The more things change...
What's going to happen when the Houthi's sink a destroyer and hundreds of sailors die? They'll ramp up for an invasion and with the drones the Houthi's have it's turn into a stalemate and we'd be losing a thousand troops a month, more if Iran jumped in.
The mistake being made is we think these Houthi's are like Al Queda and the Taliban in the 90s, they're not. This is a well supplied, hi tech, organized force and the US military is only prepared for conflicts against ragtags with Klashnikov's and RPGs for less than 6 weeks.
The mistake being made is we think these Houthi's are like Al Queda and the Taliban in the 90s, they're not. This is a well supplied, hi tech, organized force and the US military is only prepared for conflicts against ragtags with Klashnikov's and RPGs for less than 6 weeks.
I had to board ships at anchor in the Mississippi on occasion, using the stairs. It's a long way down and even using those stairs was nerve wracking. I hard passed on the ship that only had a cargo net to get on board. The other people with me had the audacity to ask me 'why not?', but when I said no way in hell, they didn't go up it either. I can't imagine doing it under steam, in ocean conditions, .......blacked out at night.
I have my thoughts on this, but I'm waffling between 'unnecessary risk' and 'how much damage could a boat loaded with explosives do to a military vessel that pulls along side the ship and boards in a safer way', making this kind of assault necessary.
I don't like commenting completely in the dark on something. I just hate seeing our guys down if the boat should have just been sunk in the first place.
I don't like commenting completely in the dark on something. I just hate seeing our guys down if the boat should have just been sunk in the first place.
NHKevin
NES Member
ROE I would assume
No, the military doesn’t think that. Why do you think the SEALs seized that boat when these two sailors died? Because it was smuggling really high tech equipment and advanced weapons from Iran. The military fully understands how the Houthis operate and how they’re equipped.
And I assure you, the U.S. Navy is prepared for much more than ragtags with kalashnikovs.
What do you think we’ve been doing to the many anti ship missiles sent at both our Navy ships and commercial ships? What do you think we’ve been doing to the other short range ballistic missiles they launch?
Iran’s been cocky and indirectly at war with us for far too long. Something like this, but maybe with destroying most of their IADS facilities, would be great. I’m genuinely curious what they would do in response. They’re already attacking us everywhere they can.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d5v6hlRyeHE&pp=ygUOSXJhbiBuYXZ5IDE5ODg%3D
bigbravehog
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Because of our weak leadership. FJB
Agnotology
NES Member
fixed it.
NHKevin
NES Member
Uh oh. Found the Haley supporter.
Agnotology
NES Member
I assume you mean Nikki Haley, and I don't even know her leanings.
I mean like the "temper temper" incident when some suicidal North Koreans lobbed a 120mm shell at the USS Wisconsin. The Houthi's are all concentrated on the west coast, and very accessible by warship. We don't even need boots on ground.
![[halfmast]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/040.gif "Half Mast [halfmast]")
Garys
NES Member
Just for reference, the Houthi control 50% of the land and 70% of the GDP in Yemen. That doesn't count the money, training, and weapons that they get from Iran.
Bombing is not going anywhere to solve this.
Bombing is not going anywhere to solve this.
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Ummm well... one could very much argue he started this
Bad pull out of afghanistan...immediately capitulating to the iranians
Not checking the Russians at any time
Not checking the norks
Not iradicating hezbollah for israel just to send a message
Being wishy washy on the gaza invasion
Not doing shit to stop the houthis immediately
All perpuated this mess
Trump was a moron... but he was amazing for America at foreign policy
Biden is garbage
Agnotology
NES Member
Trump was also entertaining. I'd watch CNN just for the highlight reels of him roasting people.
I'll add
Shutting down the XL Pipeline
Draining the Strategic Oil Reserves
Giving our stockpile of weapons to ukraine
Opening the border to every Terrorist. Drug Cartel and Gang Banger.
Forcing Patriots out of the military with the mandatory jab
Green agenda policies
Any more?
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If one is only looking at this week's news and has no benefit of history, one could come to this conclusion but they would be wrong. This is 100% Biden's administration messing up.
To give some history:
- The Middle East has lagged in economic development due to the dumb decision to alienate Israel. Israel grew economically faster than any other nation in the region. Those who made peace with Israel could establish economic ties and benefit from the trade. Those who didn't remained poor. This reality was true in the 1960s, and it is even more true in the 2020s.
- The Trump administration worked with Middle Eastern nations to make peace with Israel so that economic prosperity could spread to the rest of the Middle East. Economically robust and wealthy nations do not go to war.
- One of the first things the Biden administration did when they came to office was abandon negotiation and pivot towards making deals with Iran. As a result, Iran stopped its vassal(ex. Yemen) states and military organizations(Hezbollah and Hamas) from any active military campaigns. Iran was too happy to oblige as it allowed them to recover from the insane loss of revenue from oil that COVID-19 caused.
- When Russia invaded Ukraine, oil prices jumped and continued to remain high. Iran's coffers started filling up!
- Sanctions against Russia forced it to make deals with countries like Iran for military equipment, which it bought at a considerable premium. Iran's coffers filled up even further!
- Having made the major mistake of allowing Russia's aggression, Biden needed a significant victory on the world stage. So he went back to the Saudis. He figured it would be an easy win since the prior administration virtually completed the negotiations. He went to Saudi Arabia with a huge media presence to broadcast his imminent "victory." The Saudis felt like they were treated like pawns and gave Biden nothing.
- The media blitz in connection to Biden's trip to Saudi Arabia pissed off Iran. So, they started arming Hezbollah and Hamas. Israeli and other intelligence agencies have seen a significant increase in training and arming of these groups going back to early 2022.
- The US continued its attempts to bring Saudi Arabia into the Abraham Accords. In September of last year, news reported progress on negotiations between Saudis and Israel. Iran got even more pissed off and activated Hamas and Hezbollah.
- October 7th took place. Israel reacted with restraint in Gaza, unlike any other nation.
- Houthis in Yemen, a group financed 100% by Iran, started attacking shipping lanes, causing a jump in oil prices and leading to the tragedy of the two Navy Seals.
So no, Biden IS responsible for the deaths of Americans and IS incapable of assembling a solid foreign policy cabinet. The idiots who consult Biden on foreign policy are hacks who can't see past this week's approval ratings. As a result, Biden had been out-maneuvered and is now in a situation where he has ZERO leverage on Iran or Saudis, both of which are getting filthy rich from the spike in oil.
Coupled with our military's dismal preparedness levels, Biden has no power to project. As a result, WW3 is starting up again, and internal strife is not helping either.
TLDR
Yes, Biden’s policies and ineffectual public image have resulted in a lot of the open violence against U.S. interests worldwide. He took the Houthis off the terror list, he’s capitulated to Iran, etc etc.
But if we want to use history, let’s keep going back and just blame Britain or the way they broke up the Ottoman Empire.
Bottom line, Biden did not force the Houthis to attack all commercial shipping near the Bab el-Mandeb Strait. That was theirs and Iran’s choice. Biden ordering military action to stop the attacks and defend the shipping lane is not a wrong move.
Welp, might be useful to at least go back to 2013 in Yemen to see causing & effect....The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, our buddies, the UK & the US have poured hundreds of billions of dollars in 'warbucks' to rain down destruction of the Houthi’s with little effect. So let's the solution get mad, blame Iran.... Does history mean anything?
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