Trunk of car (covered) What about a truck?

[Adam_MA]

Ok,
We have covered the trunk of the car, but I have a question about trucks... With the configuration of my truck, I have compartments under the seats. Where these compartments are located, and the mounting frame of the actual seats themselves make it so that with using 2 cable locks, I would be able to run the lock through the action in the normal way, then use the second lock to lock the actual gun to the frame of the seat and be completely out of site. The only way it would be seen is if someone were to actually lift up the seat to get to the storage compartment.

Now... If I am reading the other posts correctly, this would not be legal. Correct? Or would the gun secured in this fashion in the locked passenger compartment of my truck qualify? Or would I have to get some sort of locking case, and lock the gun inside the case?

My concern of course, is that it is much easier to break into the passenger compartment of a truck/car than it is to break into the trunk. So I not only want to be legal with securing the firearm, but if it needs to be in a container (or separate with the action locked open and then locked to the frame) I would also like that container to be locked to the seat frame as to make it more difficult to simply smash the window and take the entire case...

I know Len is away at his training, but can anyone else answer this one for me?


Thanks
Adam

 

[YogSothoth]

My answer is conjecture based on what the other posts tell me, but it would seem your initial impression is correct: you would have to lock the unloaded gun in a case inside the cabin to be legal. I think the fact that it would be locked to the frame and have a trigger lock would obviously be effective and accomplish the goal of the law, but still does not follow the "letter" of the law (kinda like my locking up the bolt/firing pin of my rifle in a safe but no lock on the rifle - the rifle cannot be fired, but it's still not legal in MA eyes).

That's my read of it, at least.

 

[TonyD]

Mine, as well. If I read LenS' post correctly, since the glovebox doesn't cut it, neither would your idea.

Someone has got to stop the madness!

 

[Adam_MA]

Yeah it does make sense that it would be the same.. I was just bringing up the truck specific instance, mostly to see what everyone else here does to secure their piece if they own a truck..


Adam

 

[dvl]

Just to muddy the waters...

My instructor told our class that the glove box was not legal, but a locking box built in under the passenger seat of the car was. I say "built in" meaning the car came that way from the factory.

I drive a truck with a regular cab so this question is an important one to me as well. When I go to the range with my M1, I have it locked in a case, sitting by my side. I could put it behind the seat, but I am under the impression that I am compliant as long as the rifle is unloaded and locked in a case. Now that I have a pistol, I need to review!

A quote from Len in the other "trunk" thread: If you don't have a trunk, then in a lockbox behind drivers seat or passenger seat (out of reach of the driver is the rule) is OK. I take this to mean that I will need to get a lock box for the ammo as well. Good to know as I was about to carry boxes of ammo on the seat!

 

[Adam_MA]

My truck is a quad cab (4 doors) and has plenty of storage including little compartments under the rear seats and such. I guess I can always buy a locking pistol case and attach it with a chain and padlock or other such device to the seat frame and lock the pistol in the case if need be.

Adam

 

[TonyD]

I'm assuming the glove box doesn't work because being in the drivers reach whereas, a box behind the seats is not. I believe Len also recites that ammo must be in a locked container as well. I wonder how that works when you just leave the gun shop with 4 boxes of ammo in a sack.

 

[dvl]

When I made my purchase yesterday I walked from the shop to the airport with 100 rounds of .45 acp (not to mention the 1911) in a plastic shopping bag. I guess I should bring a lock box with me when I buy ammo. When I travel to and from the island, someone else inevitably handles my baggage, so it just makes sense.

 

[M1911]

It is my understanding that the Supreme Court has actually ruled that the back of an SUV is not a trunk. This article (which I have not completely read) discusses the topic:

http://www.fletc.gov/legal/qr_articles/SIAOFATRUNKLESSVEHICLE.pdf

 

[KMaurer]

Reading this summary reminded me once again why I can't stand the legal system. We start with a constitution that states that warrents are required to conduct searches, with some reasonable exceptions, such as Terry searches. I've got no problem up to this point.

But now watch closely as the stretching starts: The courts want to draw sharp dividing lines to limit and define things like Terry searches, so they come up with the Bolton ruling (interior of car? Si. trunks? No.) on the assumption that someone in a car could access the entire interior, but not the trunk. I'll be willing to bet that the justices in the Bolton decision predicated their reasoning on a smaller car in which the "interior" consisted essentially of nothing more the front and rear passenger compartments. But that sharp line hardly constitutes a proper generalization of the original Terry rule to all cases, since it's unreasonable to believe that the driver of a vehicle could reach a gun in a locked case in the rear of a station wagon or van to threaten an arresting officer or destroy evidence. (Of course it's also untrue that you can't always access the trunk from the interior; I once had to get into the trunk of my '61 Chevy that way after locking my keys in the trunk while getting a cooler out, but that's another story.)

None of that matters, though, because the courts insist on deciding things based almost solely on their prior decisions (Stare Decisis, AKA, but we've always done it this way), even when this approach clearly goes against the original itent of both the Constitution and their own earlier legal reasoning in developing the precedent on which they rely. They start with a precident that allows warrentless searches for the safety of the arresting officers and to prevent the likely destruction of evidence (Terry). Next they come up with a rule for deciding what that means (Bolton). Finally they use the more recent precedent (Bolton) to totally contradict the original one, allowing searches where no sane person could argue with a straight face that either safety or the preservation of evidence were conceivably at issue.

O, I'm sorry, I forgot that this is a shooting forum. I apologize. I guess that's what happens when accept that your shooting is regulated by fascists and fools.

Ken

 

[Len-2A Training]

Here's a short summary of the truck or vehicle with no trunk situation as I understand it.

- Law requires guns to be in locked container. Cab of truck doesn't qualify. Locking action open or to frame of vehicle does NOT meet the requirement (it is NOT common sense, it is meeting the wording of the law).

- It was Ron Glidden (who drives an SUV, BTW) who mentioned that that locked case should NOT be within reach of the driver (ergo put it behind the seat). I suspect that this is in the CMRs written to cover trucks/SUVs, but have never checked this out (as I own conventional cars only).

- Ammo being locked is a CMR put out by the State Fire Marshal's Office. What I do NOT know is if this requirement is strictly for "in a home/office" or if it is also true in a car/truck/SUV. I really don't know and I don't have time to research this one. Don't know when I'll next run into my Fire Chief and also remember to ask, so I make no promises here. As my Fire Chief told me, this is not something that he usually goes looking for so we're very unlikely to get busted for "unlocked ammo". He also realized that this has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH FIRE SAFETY! It is a BS Regulation probably pushed by HCI's goons on an anti-State Fire Marshal and thus it is written and codified into regulatory law.

Please do NOT try to incorporate logic in trying to figure out what might be an equivalent to MGLs . . . there is no logic!

Regarding the comment that it is easier to break into the cab of a car/truck than the trunk . . . I suspect that this is not really true. I still think that a large screwdriver or crowbar will make sort work of a locked trunk faster than the locked doors.

 

[Lynne]

As long as the gun is in a lock box (ammo separate) and is out of reach (i.e. behind the seat in a truck, or behind the seat and on the floor of a crew cab) you're fine. Key words is it cannot be within reach or easily accessible to the driver (or passenger) in the truck.

And Len is correct - logic does not apply to the MGL's (MA General Laws for you folks lucky enough not to live here) - never has and guarenteed never will.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Lynne, slight correction. No law requires ammo to be separate, just that the gun be unloaded. Oftentimes I put loaded mags in the same gun case that the gun is in. Some LEOs may get bent out of shape about it, since very few really know the laws, but it is perfectly legal.

 

[Lynne]

Lynne, slight correction. No law requires ammo to be separate, just that the gun be unloaded. Oftentimes I put loaded mags in the same gun case that the gun is in. Some LEOs may get bent out of shape about it, since very few really know the laws, but it is perfectly legal.

True Len - Ed and I always tell our students to air on the side of caution when transporting since most LEO's haven't a firm grasp on the gun laws, but then again, neither do the majority of gun owners since there's so much BS to sort through.

 

[sdavid]

Ammo doesn't need to be under lock and key while transporting.

If you really want to get confused try this one out: (C.140 Section 131C p(a)- (c)

LTC- A ALP- firearms (handguns) must be under "direct control,"

LTC- B firearms must be unloaded and in a locked caseor locked trunk,

"Large Capacity" Rifles and Shot guns unloaded and in a locked case,

Non-large capacity rifles (10 round or less mags, if detachable, if a tube mag that holds .22lr any capacity), shotguns (5 or less rounds) do not have to be in a locked case.

By the law you can transport an over-under trap gun by tossing it unloaded in the trunk of your car. C.140 Section 131C

 

[Lynne]

Yup - we all know that it's the large cap rifles/shotguns that kill folks, so they need to be locked up. [roll]

 

[Chris]

sdavid,

Incorrect.

Any long arm that is carried on a "Public Way" MUST be in a case. Just touching the sidewalk as you round the hedge from your yard to the neighbors requires a case. Hunters are recommended to carry a soft case for their gun in case they have to walk along a road. Heck, until it was ammended, vets marching in a parade needed to have their rifles in a case!

There are so many gotchas that the easy way to explain Mass requirements are as follows:

1) Class A with no restrictions may carry loaded and concealed on their person. Not recommended to be off the person or in open view.

2) all other guns be unloaded and some manner of lock and case be applied and out of reach of occupants.

Yes, there are all kinds of exceptions but unless you want to get really details, that covers it nicely. Please note that lock and case can be a case that locks or a licked gun IN a case. Personally I prefer a locked case as that also complies with the federal transport rules as well.