Today's fitness Woburn, MA takes money from combat veteran

He canceled the membership in person, hasn't stepped foot in the club in almost a year and they are willing to put up with all the bad PR over a few hundred bucks.

Mangers are usually fired for making poor decisions like this. They had a chance to make it right, it's on them now.
 
Here's a suggestion for a "fire mission" by those that live/work in that area . . .

A number of NES'rs should go there, take a tour, let them give you the sales pitch, then ask to speak to the manager . . .

Then tell the manager "you have a nice place here, I really would join, BUT I heard that you screwed some Veterans who are currently serving in Iraq by billing them after they canceled. Sorry, I don't need the hassle of dealing with companies that try to take advantage of our Servicemen/women" and on that just turn on your heel and leave.

That'll really "bring it home" that they have screwed the pooch and people know about it. [devil]

Everyone who does this has to do it independently so they know that the word has spread widely. Doing it as a group won't have that impact.
 
Shame on you mail sent...

Shame on you mail sent this evening.

LenS said:
Here's a suggestion for a "fire mission" by those that live/work in that area . . .

A number of NES'rs should go there, take a tour, let them give you the sales pitch, then ask to speak to the manager . . .

Then tell the manager "you have a nice place here, I really would join, BUT I heard that you screwed some Veterans who are currently serving in Iraq by billing them after they canceled. Sorry, I don't need the hassle of dealing with companies that try to take advantage of our Servicemen/women" and on that just turn on your heel and leave.

That'll really "bring it home" that they have screwed the pooch and people know about it. [devil]

Everyone who does this has to do it independently so they know that the word has spread widely. Doing it as a group won't have that impact.
Click to expand...
 
InTheBlack said:
Shame on you mail sent this evening.
Click to expand...

Received this in reply to my question to the fitness club. We may want to consider avoiding this apparent cat fight:

This is a falsehood. We offer discounted memberships to military, fire and police. We only ask the same of all, which is to follow club policies including cancellations. Mr. Hines has been offered compensation in the form of a free membership when he returns but he insists on claiming that we commited fraud. He can provide no proof of cancellation. We are active in supporting military charities including the local heroes and the toys for tots drive conducted by the marine corp. If you actually asked some of our veteran members (we have veterans from all major wars here since ww2) then you would realize that mr. Hines is the only one with a complaint. He never cancelled his membership and now he is using his veterans status to try and bully us around. We take pride in our customer service and have no problem refunding his money if he provides a receipt for cancellation. He is the only veteran out of hundreds that has had a problem with this club. If we refund his money then we are essentially admitting to fraud. We won't do that. We have offered fair compensation which Mr. Hines has refused. This compensation has been offered to him specifically because he falls into the military/police/fire category and because we do appreciate the hard work of our soldiers. The compensation was offered as an olive branch. He will get the value of time lost when he returns from iraq if he wishes. We will not admit to a fraud we didn't commit, therefore we will not be refunding any money.

I have no problem polling the members of our club, both civilian and military. I know the depth of loyalty that most of our members have to this club. Please don't email me and speak of situation when you only have half of the story. Let me ask you this, how would it benefit our business to try and screw a veteran? What would be the motivation behind that?

Do you really think we would risk the reputation of our club over a couple hundred dollars?
The main reason we are being adament about not refunding the money is because he is claiming that we commited fraud and is getting others involved who know nothing of the situation except what Mr. Hines is claiming. Therefore if we do admit to being wrong or we refund the money Mr. hines can then sue us for damages which i suspect is his intention.

This club has over 2000 members and is in good standing with the community. This situation is clearly an abberation and not the norm.
 
Zoinks...hardly seems worth it for a couple of bucks. Just give the guy back his money and call it a day.

The real issue is the employees who say "yeah we'll take care of your cancellation" and then never do anything about it. If you cancel at your gym, insist on getting it in writing..
 
I was standing with Mr. Hines when he cancelled his membership. Justin joined the gym so he could lift for a month to get ready for his PT qualification. The deal was a month to month membership. He got contracted, cancelled his membership, and flew to Iraq. The gym kept charging him. He called them up and told them about the problem and they said from that moment on his membership was cancelled - guess what? They kept charging him. It doesn't sound like a business that goes out of their way to help a veteran. We all know the right thing to do is see the documentation that he was working in Iraq during the time charged and refund the money. It's a scam. This is how an honorable man would have handled the situation. A military contractor leaves the country to support our nation during a war. He couldn't possibly use a gym in Woburn, Ma., but for whatever reason he keeps getting charged monthly dues. He brings it to the manager's attention who tells the owner - the owner asks for documentation that the contractor was out of the country during the times he was charged and upon receiving that documentation refunds the money immediately. That is what a supporter of veterans and service men and women would do - not play grab ass and talk about polling other veterans at the gym who he hasn't ripped off, yet. They played Justin along saying they were going to work it out while continuing to charge him. Then the owner says they will stop charging him and refund some of the money when he returns with proof. They charge him for two more months and guess what, now they aren't going to refund any of the money. And they say we are shameful for sticking up for a combat veteran. If anyone should be ashamed it is the owner of that rat hole. As far as Justin ever getting refunded, fat chance - it was never going to happen. I will do everything in my power to spread the word about how Today's fitness unfairly and knowingly charged a combat veteran while working in Iraq. I will speak to a friend who is a lawyer to see if my witnessing Justin canceling his membership could help him get his money back in court. They can take a poll on that.
 
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This 'business' practice has been going on for years. With health clubs, video stores, and even internet. I got burned by AOL back in the day. I believe there was even a class action suit - think they offered to provide free aol (by then it was free anyway) and people who were scammed got like $2 back.

The owners of such businesses are definitely not concerned about PR nor about how ex-customers feel. I would call the BBB and maybe the state AG to see if there have been other complaints.
 
There is a state law that prohibits any business from requiring direct debit to a charge card or bank account as a condition of getting more favorable terms on a contract. Even so, the industry standard is to require either payment for the full term up front, or direct debit. Under any reasonable interpretation, paying the same sum over time without interest vs. up front is indeed a more favorable term. Unfortunately, the state has shown no interest in enforcing this law.
 
As a business owner myself, I go out of my way to make my customers happy; even when the mistake is on their end.
Most customers are polite, professional and truthful. And a business will typically give these customers the benefit of the doubt in a dispute.
Sometimes - but not very often - the customer can be rude, arrogant, threatening, and believe it or not, sometimes they lie. Some people believe that if they make a big enough stink, they can get what ever they want.
And when a customer takes that approach, a business’s desire to make them happy goes out the window.
Is it possible that the soldier did not cancel his membership? Is it possible that he started accusing the gym of fraud? Why would anyone sign an auto payment form if they were only going to join for a month to get ready for a PT qualification? Why wouldn’t a person save the cancellation receipt when you quit? Why did it take a year of monthly charges for him to address the matter with the business? Maybe he wasnt good with the details - such as canceling a membership before leaving.
Is it fair to attack a business, and someone’s livelihood, without knowing these answers?
There is no pattern of a group of people making this claim against the business. There are no facts that the guy canceled his membership. This is a single complaint from a single person. This post is not fair. It is a one sided attack. It is irresponsible.
 
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As a business owner myself, I go out of my way to make my customers happy;
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One thing that differentiates gyms from most other businesses is their reliance on contracts, rather than ongoing providing of value that is actually used by the customer. Sure - cell phone companies, cable companies, etc. all have term contracts, but the one vendor that knows the client is most likely to not use the facility for the duration of the contract period is a health club/gym - which is why so many of these places are obsessed with getting a contractual lock in and refuse to offer "Pay $X/month as long as you want to keep using the services we offer".

My guess is that a health club that tried the "honest value, we don't want your money unless you are continuing to use our services" would go belly up as the contractually extracted payments from non-users is a vital part of the revenue stream.
 
Fox - read my post.

I was standing there when Justin cancelled his membership. While in Iraq he wasnt able to check on his bank charges - when he returned to the US and found out he was being charged he contacted them and they said they would stop charging him immediately. He went back to Iraq and they kept charging him. What excuse is there for that? There are plenty of people who sign up for a gym and then dont use it and want out of a contract - that didnt happen here. Justin specifically asked them for a monthly contract telling them he needed to leave for Iraq any day and I was with him when he cancelled his membership.

Maybe you aren't very good with the details - try reading my post. If you are calling me a liar - PM or email me so we can sort it out.
 
MRJ,
The story doesnt add up. In the P2A's original post - he said
I know I should of monitored my bank acct. closer. Being small amounts I probably missed them.
So - he didnt miss them becuase he was in Iraq - APOs get mail there just like you or I. He missed them because they were small charges. He is a guy thet probably didnt even open his statement.
And then - when asked for his cancelation paperwork - he says
To be honest with you, even if I searched my entire house, I will probably never find it.
MRJ - with your threatening statement to me:
"If you are calling me a liar - PM or email me so we can sort it out. "
This leads exactly to my first point in my original post.
And if P2A simply kept his cancelation paperwork - or opened his bank statement - this would have been avaoided.
Sorry if you feel this post was only to have one sided responses.
 
Fox said:
MRJ,
The story doesnt add up. In the P2A's original post - he said
I know I should of monitored my bank acct. closer. Being small amounts I probably missed them.
So - he didnt miss them becuase he was in Iraq - APOs get mail there just like you or I. He missed them because they were small charges. He is a guy thet probably didnt even open his statement.
And then - when asked for his cancelation paperwork - he says
To be honest with you, even if I searched my entire house, I will probably never find it.
MRJ - with your threatening statement to me:
"If you are calling me a liar - PM or email me so we can sort it out. "
This leads exactly to my first point in my original post.
And if P2A simply kept his cancelation paperwork - or opened his bank statement - this would have been avaoided.
Sorry if you feel this post was only to have one sided responses.
Click to expand...
You're the one with the least information here and the information you have is all secondhand. If MRJ says he was standing there when he canceled then that seems pretty damn solid to me especially when compared to your conjecture and "reading between the lines". Moreover, in my experience, this behavior by gyms is common place largely because they get away with it so damn easily.
 
Fox - maybe you're not so good with the details - so read my post again. Also, you're talking about a guy who is US army Sniper school qualified - everything he does is about the details - lives depend on it.

You may be tired or confused, so I'll take you through it again. I was standing there in Today's Fitness Woburn, Ma. when Justin signed up, and when he cancelled his membership. I am the one that recommended that gym so we could train together. How about when he returned and discovered the continuing charges he called, they told him it was cancelled, he went back to Iraq and they still continued to charge him? How is that consumer and veteran friendly? It's bush league - they should document his time in Iraq and refund his money for that time. What if a soldier signed up and had to suddenly deploy - no time to head over to today's fitness and deal with the razor sharp clerks and managers over there? Maybe he spends his last few days with his family, or kids? Do they still charge him for the year he is deployed because he couldn't cancel through proper procedure? How about if he is wounded or killed - do they continue to charge his card until his account runs dry - they could tell the widow that he never canceled because she cant find the piece of paper. Nice guys. I think we know the answer. The place is getting slammed by better gyms, but this isn't the way to save a business - Justin and I probably would have signed up for 2 months when he returned - with their bullshit paperwork they would have charged us for 3 months - something about needing 30 days notice to cancel month to month membership and then not being able to cancel in the middle of the month (completely fair and consumer friendly policy). We would have gladly paid what would have been the equivalent to a half year membership - instead you reap what you sew. Bad publicity, bad enrollment. Today's fitness Woburn, Ma. still has a way out - pay back the money. The day that happens is the day I will post how the local gym took care of a combat veteran still risking his life for his country because it was the right thing to do.


Fox - If you took my comment as a threat - that's on you - I never threatened anyone. My offer still stands.

Also, you didn't mention what kind of business it is that you own. As such an authority on bad customers maybe you should let us know.
 
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MJR, I’m not tired or confused. I’m just approaching this matter based on the facts as you and he stated. I think your emotions are getting the best of you.
It is very simple.
He signed a contact authorizing them to charge him monthly. I have no idea why he would sign such a contract when he knew he would be leaving the country. Pay cash. If they don’t take cash - find another gym that will.
That said - he signed a contract. And I bet the gym saved their copy of the contract.
Then you said he canceled his membership. Two things a person should do - keep a receipt of the canceled contact - and check your bank statement the following month to make sure the charges stop hitting.
He said he can't find his paperwork. And he said he didn’t pay attention to the small charges hitting his account. Then - some time later after months of charges - he goes to the gym and tells them he is still being charged. At this point – he knew he was getting screwed. I would think any person would do two things - contact their bank and put a stop payment on auto drafts from that business - and go to the gym and make sure they understand that you canceled your membership. Show them the paperwork. He didn’t have it. So - it’s his word against theirs.
You can't win in that situation. Notify them in writing (certified mail) and place a stop payment on the auto draft (you do not need to specify a certain date or amount).
He didn’t do this. He leaves for his contractor’s job again. And again he doesn’t notice the charges continuing from his account.
Now 1 year later – he has no written proof that he canceled his membership.
Maybe the gym screwed up on canceling his membership a year ago. Maybe there was some new girl behind the desk that didn’t process it right.
But come on. If you do not pay attention to your bank statements and if you don’t save your paperwork - your asking for problems.
He learned a tough lesson.
Be very careful who you authorize access to your money.
When you no longer authorize them to do so - keep record - and contact your bank or credit card company right away.
And - from reading the post - he wasn’t called up for active duty on a days notice. He was working as a private sector contractor.
I agree with the "what if" scenarios your mentioned. If he was called up and wounded or killed. But that isn’t what happened.
The problem is that he entered into a written contract with them. He canceled out of the contract - but didn’t keep record of doing so. He didn’t protect himself. The gym did.
So any refund the gym would give is at their discretion.
And if he went in calling them frauds – I wouldn’t expect they would give him a refund.
And if you feel that he was victimized and he has proof – go down to the courthouse and bring them to small claims court.
 
Fox,

Forgetting the procedural bullshit answer one question:

If a soldier signed up at Today's Fitness Woburn. Ma. and had to suddenly deploy - no time to head over and perform proper cancelation procedure because he wants to spend his last few days with his family, or kids? Should they still charge him for the year he is deployed because he couldn't cancel through proper procedure? It's a yes or no answer. We are talking about a guy with proof he was out of the country and unable to use their facility. Fox - yes or no.

Today's Fitness woburn, ma. can't pretend to support veterans if they wouldn't overlook a procedure for a veteran or service man or woman and refund their money immediately - what makes this even worse is Justin cancelled his monthly membership and I was standing right there. You have to give them a credit card number because they need to charge you for the next month when you're gone - something about you you have to give 30 days notice and you can't cancel in the middle of the month. So, if you don't give notice on a 24 hour window of time you get charged 2 months. Anyway, Fox, looks like a fair amount of the folks on Yelp have an unfavorable view of that dump too. Notice it isn't very crowded - the kiss of death for a gym.
Fox, you never answered what type of business you own and operate - I'm guessing probably a gym or a gay porn outlet. Fox, please enjoy the quotes from Yelp a customer review website about your favorite place Today's Fitness Woburn, ma.:

Lauren M.
Somerville, MA
12/9/2008
My place of work pays half, otherwise I would be sweating it somewhere else. The machines are often out of order and there are often no paper towels/cleaning spray, which leads me to believe the machines are also filthy. When I walk out of this place, I can not wait to get into a shower.

There are a few pluses. It's not crowded. Classes are easy to get in to and I enjoy the spinning classes Tu/Th at noon. Perfect = slip out of work for an hour and slip back in before anyone notices. Also, because it's not crowded, there is never anyone in the womans gym. I feel like I have my own personal gym! For the other sex, I suggest wearing a wig/sports bra to take advantage of this area.

Dave L.
Cambridge, MA
Updated - 1/6/2009
I have to lower my rating. I recently switched gyms to one closer to home, and am being charged for both January (makes sense) and February (what the heck??) due to some bogus 30 day notice policy.



6/25/2008First to Review
I am a member of Today's Fitness mainly because my company has a corporate discount policy here.


Overall, the gym is decent but not great. If it wasn't for the large discount, I would probably go to a gym closer to home.



Sounds to me like Today's Fitness might be gone tomorrow. They might want to rethink some of their lousy policies. I think I'll add my complaint to the list at Yelp - anyone else on the board who wants to lend a hand please do so.

Fox, do you think all of these people are wrong about the place too? can't wait to read the bullshit response you are going to type next.
 
MRJ,
You started your last post with:
“Forgetting the procedural bullshit….”
You can’t forget the facts.
I don’t own a gym. I had never heard of Todays Fitness before reading this post.
You searched and searched the internet to find customer complaints that supported your idea of fraud – and the best you could come up with was reviews with comments such as missing paper towels and a 30 day cancellation notice.
And my favorite customer complaint you found… “Overall, the gym is decent but not great”.
If the place was that bad – why did you recommend it to your friend? YOU brought him in there –right?
And I would say yes to your question.
If an active duty soldier had to leave the country suddenly and could not cancel his membership – the gym should make an exception and refund his membership.
This isn’t what happened. So why do you keep asking this question?
And you now want fellow NES members to post negative reviews about a business they have never stepped foot into.
Your personal attacks to me in your last post demonstrate that you do not to have any substance to ad. This is what people do what they can’t argue on the facts. They make it personal.
You say you can’t wait to see what I post next. Yet I could care less what you post next.
Have a nice Easter and God bless!
 
Fox,

Didn't need to search and search - It's right there when you google Today's Fitness Woburn, Ma. and every one of the comments on Yelp basically confirmed that most members dislike Today's Fitness. Amongst a slew of complaints, this quote " and am being charged for both January (makes sense) and February (what the heck??) due to some bogus 30 day notice policy." I better warn him to hold on to his cancellation notice or he might just end up with six more monthly charges. Fox, not one of the reviews was positive.

I suggested the place to Justin because of the location - he called and asked if he could sign up for a monthly contract. They agreed. I never had a problem with the facility although many others seem to. In fact, if they had been honorable and done the right thing we would have signed up for 3 months again.

" If an active duty soldier had to leave the country suddenly and could not cancel his membership – the gym should make an exception and refund his membership. "
" This isn’t what happened. So why do you keep asking this question? "

Fox, you admitted above that the gym should make an exception and refund an active duty soldier who suddenly had to deploy - but you say this isn't what happened. You're right, a 2-tour former sniper team leader had to suddenly deploy to Iraq, so he cancelled his gym membership. The gym continues to charge a combat veteran now back in Iraq risking his life providing close protection to State Department diplomats, and the most senior level cabinet officials. So, risking his life as a soldier deserves a refund, but risking his life as a security agent doesn't deserve a refund. Very interesting logic. Do the two-years he served in combat as a sniper team leader weigh in, or are only active duty personnel eligible for refund? His life is on the line again - and to be honest your logic makes me sick. More lame excuses not to properly refund a two tour combat veteran money that never should have been taken from his account in the first place. Pathetic.
 
Look, it really comes down to this: do we give preference in this case to someone actively serving our Country? Yes we do! Give him the refund and call it your contribution to the war effort. I am not a veteran, but i am a business owner and a member of that club and I am concerned that we are giving up an opportunity to give the benefit of doubt to this man. Refund him with the stipulation that he drops all future claims against the club.
 
I agree.
But he was not actively serving. He was working as a contractor. He joined the gym after leaving the service.
 
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Hummm Why is it on the guy is leaving the country on orders of our Gov. to keep track of cancelation records from a gym?

On a personal note I have 2 kids in school(tons of papers come home every day) A wife that is in a business that puts everything on paper as well as my own "papers" floating around the house, So if your like me it would be pretty damn difficult to find a cancelation letter that was probably jammed into a backpack on his way out the door however many months ago. The gym should have electronic "paperwork" that could easily be located by typing his name in and presto "you enrolled on xx at xx time and canceled at this time and date", Yes you should keep track of your finances and records for just such a reason but Im sure he had other things on his mind, give the guy a break and refund the charges as well at the interest the credit card co. charges (if any).... Just my 2 cents worth (But that would set a president to all the other customers that tried to cancel and got the shaft)
 
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