Time for the NRA to step up.

[Executive]

OK a while back I was criticizing the NRA for its lack of commitment to MA. Now that firearms owners are up against the wall we need to see some NRA activity here. I am writing a letter to the NRA requesting preemptive action to help us out. I'm not sure exactly what can be done, but I think the time for action is NOW. Contacting my representative is also in the works, but I know he is a rabid anti and do not expect much help there. Circle the wagons, folks, we're in for a long and difficult battle. We need to get the message out that firearm ownership is not the evil dangerous thing that the libs make it out to be. Positive publicity is what is needed and fast.

Chris

 

[M1911]

The NRA did help. They had their phone bank running in my district, to support Rep. Sue Pope. Sue was A+ rated by GOAL. And she lost by ~400 votes.

The problem is that she was a Republican and all Republicans had a target on their back this time around.

 

[FPrice]

I am writing a letter to the NRA requesting preemptive action to help us out.

Any suggestions as to what the NRA can/should do to change things here that are going to put pressure on the Dems?

Not really trying to get on your case, but it's like the old saying, "The Lord helps those who help themselves.". We need to help ourselves first before anything the NRA can do would be effective.

 

[Executive]

The NRA exists to protect our second amendment rights. THEY SHOULD BE GIVING US ADVICE ON WHAT TO DO. I am not an expert in the area of political leverage when dealing with firearms, the NRA is. I just renewed my membership for five years in October. Since then, I've recieved THREE letters asking me to further extend my membership, and ZERO letters telling me anything else. Perhaps the NRA could send one of their crack lobbyists to start a friendly dialogue with the new AG? Perhaps the NRA could start looking at possible RKBA violations the Patrick administration has suggested under the guise of safety. Proactive gives us a chance to be ready before the axe falls. Reactive gives us no chance and it will be too late. Grass-roots does not work (see: Frisoli, Larry). We need some help from the powerful entity that we support, not further membership solicitation.

Chris

 

[number9]

Chris: I'm not sure what you mean about the 2nd amendment. Do you want the NRA to challenge laws passed by Mass. restricting gun owners as unconstitutional, or do you want them to lobby the Mass. gov't to not pass laws detrimental to gun owners?

 

[Jose]

Chris: I'm not sure what you mean about the 2nd amendment. Do you want the NRA to challenge laws passed by Mass. restricting gun owners as unconstitutional, or do you want them to lobby the Mass. gov't to not pass laws detrimental to gun owners?

I'm pretty sure he means both.

 

[number9]

I'm pretty sure he means both.

Not having lived here long enough to know... how do states typically argue their way out of alleged 2nd amendment violations? What is it that they say (either publicly or legally) to justify what they're doing?

 

[Garys]

I'm just guessing here, but it would make sense to me for the NRA to work with and advise GOAL. The GOAL people are local and have a better idea of what's going on at the State House. At least I'm assuming so.

It's going to be a long battle, and no sure thing, to turn back the tide in MA. Many people, and I may well end up in that group, will decide it's not worth the struggle and will vote with their feet.

That aside, I plan to support GOAL and the NRA. I hope that others do the same. Maybe this will push some fence sitters into becoming activists.

Gary

 

[M1911]

The NRA exists to protect our second amendment rights. THEY SHOULD BE GIVING US ADVICE ON WHAT TO DO.

I'm sure that the NRA has been in close contact with GOAL.

I suggest that you call up GOAL. You are a GOAL member, aren't you?

 

[M1911]

Grass-roots does not work (see: Frisoli, Larry)

Sorry, but I disagree. The only thing that can work is grass-roots.

The NRA effectively has no power on its own. The NRA's power comes from its ability to motivate its members.

In other states, the NRA has the ability to get voters to the polls. The politicians know that. So the NRA has power there.

Until and unless enough gun owners in MA vote the gun rights issues, the NRA will have little power here.

Expecting the NRA to swoop in and perform a miracle in a state where most people are anti-gun is unrealistic.

 

[number9]

The NRA effectively has no power on its own. The NRA's power comes from its ability to motivate its members.

That is true of every interest group there is. If you can't mobilize your supporters, you have diddly-squat.

 

[Coyote33]

I'm just guessing here, but it would make sense to me for the NRA to work with and advise GOAL. The GOAL people are local and have a better idea of what's going on at the State House. At least I'm assuming so.
...

Yeah, but GOAL always complains they are broke and undermanned.

Then, you ask the NRA what is going on, and they say GOAL is their MA arm.

Ring ring:
"Hello, NRA? Help!"

...the NRA has the ability to get voters to the polls. The politicians know that. So the NRA has power there.

Until and unless enough gun owners in MA vote the gun rights issues, the NRA will have little power here...

So, then let's hope the NRA does exactly this.

Again: GOAL:ring ring: "Hello, NRA? Help!"

 

[FPrice]

Grass-roots does not work (see: Frisoli, Larry).

I have to disagree with this also. Unfortunately too many people think that grass-roots means a bunch of people agreeing and a few people doing, usually at the last minute.

What we need is for the Massachusetts Republican Party to start today analyzing what happened and identifying leaders to step up as candidates for the next election. That may mean growing candidates from the local level and building up their reputations. And more and more of us getting involved in the process early to build up to the campaign.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Patrick was identified by both state and national people as a gubanatorial candidate a long time before he was announced. I think that the DNC (or someone else) has a long-term plan to gain control of more and more states in this manner.

Unless we learn and adapt, we may find ourselves on the losing end of this battle for good. Stop thinking next week and start thinking about the next election now.

 

[JonJ]

You getting there Frosty. What we need to do is to do is force the GOP in this state to actually be REPUBLICAN and CONSERVATIVE. We need to force the party to be what it is supposed to be.

 

[number9]

You getting there Frosty. What we need to do is to do is force the GOP in this state to actually be REPUBLICAN and CONSERVATIVE. We need to force the party to be what it is supposed to be.

That doesn't help you if the Democratic liberals outnumber you.

You need to try to persuade them to listen to you, and ultimately agree with you.

 

[M1911]

What we need to do is to do is force the GOP in this state to actually be REPUBLICAN and CONSERVATIVE.

Actually, I disagree with this. The vast majority of people in MA are not conservative. If the MA Republicans veer to the right, they will further marginalize themselves. Their only hope is to offer a fiscally conservative, socially moderate policy.

 

[Executive]

Sorry, but I disagree. The only thing that can work is grass-roots.

The NRA effectively has no power on its own. The NRA's power comes from its ability to motivate its members.

In other states, the NRA has the ability to get voters to the polls. The politicians know that. So the NRA has power there.

Until and unless enough gun owners in MA vote the gun rights issues, the NRA will have little power here.

Expecting the NRA to swoop in and perform a miracle in a state where most people are anti-gun is unrealistic.

"The NRA effectively has no power..." Then what's the point?

"The NRA's power comes from its ability to motivate its members." THEN LET THE MOTIVATION BEGIN!!! (And no, not by simply soliciting extended memberships)

"In other states..." Well, that's not going to work here so something different must be attempted here.

"Expecting the NRA to swoop in and perform a miracle... ... is unrealistic" Finally we agree on something. I'm not asking for a miracle, just SOME reassurance that Massachusetts is not being written off. I'd LOVE to see an NRA office here. Why is so improbable to expect an NRA representative to visit Massachusetts and have a meaningful proactive discussion with the new Governor and AG. We need to draw a line in the sand. The erosion of our rights has to stop here and now.

Chris

 

[Garys]

Actually, I disagree with this. The vast majority of people in MA are not conservative. If the MA Republicans veer to the right, they will further marginalize themselves. Their only hope is to offer a fiscally conservative, socially moderate policy.

That approach is exactly what cost the Republicans control of both houses of Congress. That, and being seen as hypocritical on ethics. The national Republicans are going to have to rethink their approach. Sadly, there aren't enough in MA to do that in a meaningful way.

MA is becoming very much like Europe. An elected ruling class that ignores the desires of the citizens. And yet, the citizens keep electing them.

To paraphrase Zell Miller, "I didn't leave Massachusetts, Massachusetts left me".

Gary

 

[M1911]

I disagree. What cost the Republicans control of both houses were:

1) Iraq
2) corruption scandals
3) the Republicans went too far to the right, when most of the populace is closer to the center.

 

[M1911]

I'd LOVE to see an NRA office here.

There effectively is one. It's called the Gun Owner's Action League. Why don't you give them a call and volunteer?

 

[Garys]

I disagree. What cost the Republicans control of both houses were:

1) Iraq
2) corruption scandals
3) the Republicans went too far to the right, when most of the populace is closer to the center.

Corruption is #1, and you're wrong about #3. Lincoln Chaffee was to the left of many Democrats and he lost. As was Mike DeWine, and he lost. If Iraq was the big issue, as of this morning Joe Lieberman would have been available for SecDef. He's not and his opponent who ran on an anti war platform gets to go back to selling cars.

Gary

 

[M1911]

Lincoln Chafee would not have won if he had run to the right. Chafee lost because the RI voters were mad at Bush. They liked Chafee -- 62% felt he had done a good job. But they didn't vote for him.

If Chafee was too far to the left, as you suggest, then why did the RI voters vote in a Democrat?

Lamont's problem was that he was a one-issue candidate, backed by screaming lefties, and Lieberman ran a very good campaign focused on the center.

Look at the MA congressional delegation -- Kennedy, Kerry, Frank, etc. They get re-elected with overwhelming majorities each election. You are not going to defeat them with a fire-breathing, right-wing, pro-life, religious-right candidate.

 

[Executive]

There effectively is one. It's called the Gun Owner's Action League. Why don't you give them a call and volunteer?

Sorry to nit pick here but I do not want "effectively". I want ACTUALLY. I have talked with my club's GOAL and NRA liason, Dave Daniels. He said that I need to write my representatives. Dave is a gentleman and a good guy but, that will not work here in MA. I probably do more effective pro-firearm work talking with the students at the vocational high school where I teach.

Don't confuse my frustration here with whining. I am an NRA and GOAL member. I support my club (Danvers F&G). Once again, I just want to know what the "A-Team" is planning to do when, sorry, BEFORE, Patrick, Coakley, and Pelosi come to take my guns away.

Chris

 

[Garys]

If Chafee was too far to the left, as you suggest, then why did the RI voters vote in a Democrat?

Because people who voted for him as a Republican felt betrayed. That includes a lot of people who just stayed home.

Look at the MA congressional delegation -- Kennedy, Kerry, Frank, etc. They get re-elected with overwhelming majorities each election. You are not going to defeat them with a fire-breathing, right-wing, pro-life, religious-right candidate.

You aren't going to defeat them at all. As I said elsewhere, much of the electorate in MA behaves as if they were European. ALL of the politicians do.

Most of the country is somewhat right of center. We are the exception. The country is trending more Red each year.

Gary

 

[Biff Quizler]

But, What Actions Can Produce Results???

First I'd just like to say that it's great to read comments by informed and articulate people. This in itself holds a signifiant degree of power that can effect change. Nothing hurts the 2nd amendment discussion more than a biased media focussing on an angered, frustarated gun owner to interview and then broadcast responses out of context.

I agree that some action has to be taken. I too receive the never ending NRA requests for $, regardless of membership expiration date. I am a member of GOAL also and think that they do great work. But as any manager that is approached with a problem will ask/expect from a subordinate, what do you propose as a solution now that you have identified an issue?

We are on the short end of the stick in terms of time until Devil steps up and we will have even fewer allies in politics than we've had the past couple of years. It's clear that the only efforts we will see in that realm are negative.

I think that grassroots actions are the way to go. Not sitting around singing khumbaya (?sp) and massaging each other's tender egos or anything, but rather taking action on a one to one, day to day level. The action that could have the most effect in my mind is simply doing what we all are doing here, having intelligent respectful communication about our sport, except to bring this information to the general public. I believe that the general public is at least curious about guns/shooting/etc, but the concept of guns immediately conjures up negative connotations in this state. This is where we can take action to change this perspective. In doing this the proverbial "wind would be taken out of the sails" of alot of gun legislation. If the general citizen isn't concerned about an issue then usually their representation will not be either as they want their continued support (i.e. TV ratings) Taking on those legislatures with personal anti 2nd amend agendas.... That's where GOAL and NRA step in but only once we have laid the foundation and corrected the misinformed local public concern about evil weapons.

I know that my club could use more members. Even I think it would be a bit odd, but definately not improper, if clubs or GOAL hosted/sponsored/donated time to support community events NOT located on club grounds (Town picnics, 4th of July fireworks, firearms safety courses to schools, even publically supporting (illegal) handgun violence causes, being involved in drafting bills to fight real firearm crimes (not administrative crap), etc). Basically participate in community actions as an opportunity to show that we're not freaks and provide information in a non threatening manner. Through actions such as these, we have the power to bring legitimate firearm ownership and sports into mainstream society in this state. Oh yeah, making a few key friends with the local media would go a long way..

Ignorance causes distrust and fear. The liberals have used this against us for a long time because we have waited to be taken care of. That hasn't happened and perhaps we should begin to legitamize our sport and rights by effective (NOT radical and impassioned) communication with friends/family/neighbors/voters.

Just my 42 cents, thanks for reading....
Steve

 

[Coyote33]

There effectively is one. It's called the Gun Owner's Action League. Why don't you give them a call and volunteer?

Why doesn't the NRA send some money so it can be decently staffed?

 

[RKG]

The NRA did help. They had their phone bank running in my district, to support Rep. Sue Pope. Sue was A+ rated by GOAL. And she lost by ~400 votes.

The problem is that she was a Republican and all Republicans had a target on their back this time around.

Nope. If she only lost by 400 votes, then two propositions are necessarily true: (a) the Republican target factor didn't affect her and (b) the gun vote did not get off its duff and out to the polls.

 

[RKG]

Sorry, but I disagree. The only thing that can work is grass-roots.

The NRA effectively has no power on its own. The NRA's power comes from its ability to motivate its members.

In other states, the NRA has the ability to get voters to the polls. The politicians know that. So the NRA has power there.

Until and unless enough gun owners in MA vote the gun rights issues, the NRA will have little power here.

Expecting the NRA to swoop in and perform a miracle in a state where most people are anti-gun is unrealistic.

Absolutely true.

 

[Bandit]

Yeah, but GOAL always complains they are broke and undermanned.

Then, you ask the NRA what is going on, and they say GOAL is their MA arm.

Ring ring:
"Hello, NRA? Help!"





So, then let's hope the NRA does exactly this.

Again: GOAL:ring ring: "Hello, NRA? Help!"

When calling the Goal office , if You are a Member , ask them to send You a Copy of there Financial Statement of where the Money Went .
and let us know when You get it. ( They are a Non Profit )
They will probably just send You a letter asking for more $$$$

Bob

 

[Len-2A Training]

If you are a club rep or activist, you get an annual report which identifies generally where the money goes. 17K members doesn't yield much money!! That only ~12x as many people as have registered here on NES!!

GOAL does not nickle and dime members to death begging for bucks, unlike NRA.