Theoretical Legality of Aftermarket Glock Slides and Barrels

[OfficerObie59]

Here's an interesting legal issue, and I'm curious for opinions. I'll be the first to agree the liklihood of a prosecution is slim, but worth considering. This arose from a circumstance where an officer I know came across a Glock with the three serial numbers defaced. Which got me thinking...

As most of you know, Glock gratuitiously serial numbers their barrels and slides, in addition to the key ATF-mandated serial number on the regulated frame. While Glock slides aren't replaced all that often, barrels are frequently replaced often to add ported barrels or to use barrels with traditional rifling as opposed to the stock Glock polygonal barrels.

So say you change out your Glock barrel. Obviously, federal law would not be violated as the S/N on the regulated part, the frame, is still intact. However, the Massachusetts' state statute regulating the defacement of serial number is as follows:

Whoever, by himself or another, removes, defaces, alters, obliterates or mutilates in any manner the serial number or identification number of a firearm, or in any way participates therein, and whoever receives a firearm with knowledge that its serial number or identification number has been removed, defaced, altered, obliterated or mutilated in any manner, shall be punished by a fine of not more than two hundred dollars or by imprisonment for not less than one month nor more than two and one half years. Possession or control of a firearm the serial number or identification number of which has been removed, defaced, altered, obliterated or mutilated in any manner shall be prima facie evidence that the person having such possession or control is guilty of a violation of this section; but such prima facie evidence may be rebutted by evidence that such person had no knowledge whatever that such number had been removed, defaced, altered, obliterated or mutilated, or by evidence that he had no guilty knowledge thereof. Upon a conviction of a violation of this section said firearm or other article shall be forwarded, by the authority of the written order of the court, to the colonel of the state police, who shall cause said firearm or other article to be destroyed.

General Laws: CHAPTER 269, Section 11C

Definitions--remember MGL 140, §121 defines a firearm, rifle, or shotgun as having the ability to fire a round...

“Firearm”, a firearm as defined in section one hundred and twenty-one of chapter one hundred and forty, or a rifle or shotgun.

“Serial number”, the number stamped or placed upon a firearm by the manufacturer in the original process of manufacture.

General Laws: CHAPTER 269, Section 11A

So the question becomes, if you replace your original, serial numbered Glock barrel with a non-serial numbered Wolff barrel, have you just committed a MA misdemeanor by removing a serial number? What about replacing parts on serial numbered European guns wheree every part has a number?

Note the phrase "THE serial number". Any difference?

This might be tin foil hat stuff, but it seems to me the potential for .gov abuse is there.

Thoughts?

 

[TZCHRIS]

Good question, I wondered if you would have to 'replace' or have the new barrel etched with matching numbers (not that I would do that)

 

[Boris]

The only "firearm" is the frame, destroying serial on a barrel is like destroying serial on a remote control. It's not a firearm, it is not regulated or tracked in any paperwork, fed or state. You can't prove it ever existed on a custom part.

If DA wants to put you in jail, he will most likely use your loud farting to charge with disturbance of peace.

 

[OfficerObie59]

The only "firearm" is the frame, destroying serial on a barrel is like destroying serial on a remote control. It's not a firearm, it is not regulated or tracked in any paperwork, fed or state. You can't prove it ever existed on a custom part.

So, if the serial is still present on the frame, the DA couldn't call up Glock and say "Hey, did you sell gun s/N ABC123 with a serialed barrel and slide?"

I though pistol frames were not firearms for state purposes for the same reasons stripped AR lower's aren't "firearms" or "rifles" under state law (and thus don't require an FA-10 until you build them out.)

But if you have a complete gun and you dispose of a serial number by chucking the slide, how is that not serial number "removal"? I think the only saving grace in the statute might be where is says "the" serial number.

 

[Boris]

I though pistol frames were not firearms for state purposes for the same reasons stripped AR lower's aren't "firearms" or "rifles" under state law (and thus don't require an FA-10 until you build them out.)

IANAL, and I don't know about stripped AR lowers, but AK flat magically becomes a rifle (in fed eyes) once you have shown intent by putting a slight crease, bending it. It doesn't need to be registered in the eyes of state until it's capable of discharging a projectile in combination with other parts.

This is a very common situation for those who build kit guns from demilled weapons. Serials on other parts like bolts and barrels etc get routinely mangled and defaced. The only serial that matters is the serial of the "receiver" for that weapon.

The whole concept of regulating firearms based on some vague criteria and a set of numbers is completely nonsensical. For this reason, I would expect that you may find a whole lot of conundrums and fallacies in the laws that attempt (and fail) to regulate said bits of metal and plastic.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

The only "firearm" is the frame, destroying serial on a barrel is like destroying serial on a remote control. It's not a firearm, it is not regulated or tracked in any paperwork, fed or state. You can't prove it ever existed on a custom part.

If DA wants to put you in jail, he will most likely use your loud farting to charge with disturbance of peace.

this is my thought as well

 

[MisterHappy]

By the same theory, a milsurp with non-matching numbers would be "dangerous ground"......

Since the only mandated serial number is on the frame, the rest is "decoration", I'd say.


Of course, IANAL.....but as the one that coined the term "Massprudence".....even I'd not sweat it.


Cool question, though......and from a great source, all things considered!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I would not be concerned about having a Glock with a replacement barrel or slide without a serial number, however, I would be very uncomfortable having a slide or barrel with an obviously removed or defaced serial number as I would not want to have a conversation with MA LEOs about the MA vs. federal definition of a firearm, or about "official" vs. "decorative" serial numbers.

 

[OfficerObie59]

I would not be concerned about having a Glock with a replacement barrel or slide without a serial number, however, I would be very uncomfortable having a slide or barrel with an obviously removed or defaced serial number as I would not want to have a conversation with MA LEOs about the MA vs. federal definition of a firearm, or about "official" vs. "decorative" serial numbers.

That would by my end feeling as well.

 

[MisterHappy]

I agree that effaced numbers are a bad thing....."real" or not. It tends to arouse suspicion.

My point was that numbers different from the one on the frame is a common situation.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I agree that effaced numbers are a bad thing....."real" or not. It tends to arouse suspicion.

My point was that numbers different from the one on the frame is a common situation.

And if Glock has to replace a barrel or slide, you end up with a different number too!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

And if Glock has to replace a barrel or slide, you end up with a different number too!

If the replacement Glock frame/slide/barrel has a single letter prefix (G-frame, S-Slide, L-barrel) it is one intended for replacement use. If it has a 2 or 3 letter prefix it was scavenged from a production gun.

 

[SilentOverlord]

So, let me throw a wrench in here since I may need clarification:

Lets say you come across an FFL here in MA (Mr. Smith I'll call him).

Now, Mr. Smith is selling Glock lowers in his display case. You purchase one, and a few days later go back and buy the slide that was sitting in the next case over. (assume serial #'s do not match)

A) Is this legal / ilegal under Mass or Federal law? (circumventing state firearm laws?)
B) If it is legal why don't more people do it?
C) If ilegal then why is it allowed by those in authority to continue?

 

[Boris]

So, let me throw a wrench in here since I may need clarification:

Lets say you come across an FFL here in MA (Mr. Smith I'll call him).

Now, Mr. Smith is selling Glock lowers in his display case. You purchase one, and a few days later go back and buy the slide that was sitting in the next case over. (assume serial #'s do not match)

A) Is this legal / ilegal under Mass or Federal law? (circumventing state firearm laws?)
B) If it is legal why don't more people do it?
C) If ilegal then why is it allowed by those in authority to continue?

A) Legal
B) why aren't more people get parts guns and finish them on the cheap? People are looking for complete solutions and don't have any idea that for example two slides would fit the same Glock lower.

 

[MisterHappy]

Interchangeable parts....what a concept!

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I would not be concerned about having a Glock with a replacement barrel or slide without a serial number, however, I would be very uncomfortable having a slide or barrel with an obviously removed or defaced serial number as I would not want to have a conversation with MA LEOs about the MA vs. federal definition of a firearm, or about "official" vs. "decorative" serial numbers.

That would by my end feeling as well.

I vote with you guys and only because I've seen cases where DAs in Massachusetts have gone to extraordinary lengths and creative statute reading to jam people up. Here, they don't need to be all that creative as one can easily make the case that defacing any serial number is a violation of the law. I doubt any of our state courts would make an effort to get their heads around the idea the frame serial number is the only one of any significance - even if one produced the FA-10 with only one serial number.

Just to add another variation, I have at least one gun with three different serial numbers - frame, barrel and slide. And it has crossed my mind that someone in law enforcement might attach to that fact some nefarious significance.

 

[dcmdon]

If you buy a refurbished Glock, the serial numbers on the slide barrel and frame may not match.

There's enough real stuff to worry about. Why make this crap up.

Sent from Samsung Note 2

 

[OfficerObie59]

If you buy a refurbished Glock, the serial numbers on the slide barrel and frame may not match.

Yeah, but thats from the manufacurer, which the law allows.

 

[OfficerObie59]

So, let me throw a wrench in here since I may need clarification:

Lets say you come across an FFL here in MA (Mr. Smith I'll call him).

Now, Mr. Smith is selling Glock lowers in his display case. You purchase one, and a few days later go back and buy the slide that was sitting in the next case over. (assume serial #'s do not match)

A) Is this legal / ilegal under Mass or Federal law? (circumventing state firearm laws?)
B) If it is legal why don't more people do it?
C) If ilegal then why is it allowed by those in authority to continue?

Isn't a handgun frame a Federal AOW and not a MA firearm? Go to dealer A for the frame and go to anyone else for the other parts....

Not a bad idea at first glance to get around "the list" though I'm sure it can't be this easy or it would be already be doen with some frequency.

 

[dcmdon]

Yeah, but thats from the manufacurer, which the law allows.

How does that make a difference?

- - - Updated - - -

Isn't a handgun frame a Federal AOW and not a MA firearm? Go to dealer A for the frame and go to anyone else for the other parts....

Not a bad idea at first glance to get around "the list" though I'm sure it can't be this easy or it would be already be doen with some frequency.

A frame is just an "other" to the feds. Not an AOW, which is a NFA item.

 

[OfficerObie59]

A frame is just an "other" to the feds. Not an AOW, which is a NFA item.

The category I was talking about is whatever federal cat applies to stripped lowers. That't the analogy I'm thinking off.

Would an AR stripped lower logic not apply to a pistol frame?