The police will protect you?

[Martlet]

Since I'm fired up lately about my right to protect myself, and the opposing argument by gun grabbers that the police will protect you, here's a video I swiped from Arfcom.

After the cop ran out of ammo and was approached by the perp, he FLED the scene, leaving the victim to be shot and beaten. He later was decorated for his actions.

Too bad the woman wasn't carrying.

 

[pdm]

How many mags did he go through at that short range? Holy crap.

 

[Martlet]

How many mags did he go through at that short range? Holy crap.

Beats me. On arfcom someone suggested that he just may have forgotten, or was unable, to load or load fast enough.

What absolutely astonished me was how he bowled the woman over in his rush to flee.

 

[WayneWong]

He could have jumped on her to protect her if he wanted to clear the way for Feliciano to fire. He abandoned her.

 

[Yelena]

I would oblige every gun grabber to wear a sign: "Unarmed and respect criminals rights".

 

[dixidawg]

Well, they could always call 911 for immediate protection...


http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2008/05/police_promise.html

 

[sig shooter]

the problem with the gun grabbers( liberals by proxy) is that there simply friggin cowards. if some one broke into there house and the said grabber had access to a gun they would run because " they rather be killed ..than kill" even if there whole family was being murdered if front of there eyes.

do your self a favor and dont try to figure out these asses it just too hard too becase we are not gutless sheep. me personaly i dont feel any safer with the cops around because there usully the ones that are going to be tracing the outline of your dead body on the sidewalk if you dont have a gun to defend yourself.

 

[Lucas McCain]

Yeah, I feel protected, got a renewal notice in the mail telling me to call the police, called the regular business number and got a busy signal for 30 minutes. Maybe I should have called 911 after and told them to get off the business number. I can picture someone kicking in my front door and getting put on hold while they killed my family. No thanks, I'll take my guns and defend myself. After all it is not the responsibility of the government to protect and take care of me despite what "the bitch" says.

 

[Adam_MA]

The cop did the right thing. He ran out of ammo, had no time to reload, and needed to clear the way for the other officer to take the shot. Had he not moved, he could have been shot point blank with the shotgun, then the woman shot/beaten next before the other officer could have made his hits and brought the man down.

 

[Martlet]

The cop did the right thing. He ran out of ammo, had no time to reload, and needed to clear the way for the other officer to take the shot. Had he not moved, he could have been shot point blank with the shotgun, then the woman shot/beaten next before the other officer could have made his hits and brought the man down.

Um, did you watch the video? He bowled the woman over in his haste to flee, then the woman WAS SHOT AND BEATEN before the perp was brought down.

 

[pbearperry]

Business lines at most police stations in large towns and all cities ring off the hook 24-7.People call the cops for all stupid reasons.They even call 911 to ask about school cancellations in the winter during snow storms.People who criticize cops for everything should ask to sit in police communications for a bit.You cannot even believe the stress working in these places.

 

[Adam_MA]

Um, did you watch the video? He bowled the woman over in his haste to flee, then the woman WAS SHOT AND BEATEN before the perp was brought down.

He didn't bowl her over, she was behind him, and it looked as though she was holding onto him and got dragged down when he started running. It's real easy to sit here and arm chair quarter back this video play by play, but until you are out of ammo, and have a murderous lunatic pointing a sawed off shotgun in your face, you won't know what you will do. The officers first priority is his own safety, he wouldn't be any good to anyone if he were dead.

 

[law dawg]

He didn't bowl her over, she was behind him, and it looked as though she was holding onto him and got dragged down when he started running. It's real easy to sit here and arm chair quarter back this video play by play, but until you are out of ammo, and have a murderous lunatic pointing a sawed off shotgun in your face, you won't know what you will do. The officers first priority is his own safety, he wouldn't be any good to anyone if he were dead.

While I think I understand your post, I must slightly disagree with you. I, as a LEO, feel it's my business to put my life in harm's way. Period. I do for those that can't, at that moment, do for themselves.

Have you ever read about Beslan? If you haven't, please do sometime. It's eye opening. John Giduck was giving a lecture to Denver PD about what their mission would be in the instance of just such a takeover. He said, paraphrasing, that the mission of the responding officers was to charge the building and die, taking out as many of the terrorists as possible. The objective, you see, is to keep them fighting until SWAT, etc. arrives on the scene and not give them a chance to dig in and fortify like they did at Beslan.

THAT's the gig we signed up for. When your out living on the edge, that's the goddamned job. It ain't about your cool gun and shiny badge and officer courtesy and nice perks and good retirement. Those things are important, but the JOB is to enforce the law for the betterment of society and standing up for those who can't stand up for themselves.

Or it is in my bullsh!t opinion, anyway.

Now, I'm not going to armchair quarterback this officer. It's hard to predict what someone will do under severe adrenal stress. Anyone who says any different is full of crap. But I'd like to think that I, in such a situation, would have done things a little differently.

Maybe I wouldn't, but it's pretty to think so.

 

[pdm]

He probably tunnel visioned the poor woman right out of his awareness. Something like this:

Gotta help this lady -> Shooting! -> Shoot back! -> radio for help -> No more bullets! -> M-O-V-E!

Isn't that the exact response that advanced training (aka, SWAT) attempts to remove?

 

[Adam_MA]

Now, I'm not going to armchair quarterback this officer. It's hard to predict what someone will do under severe adrenal stress. Anyone who says any different is full of crap. But I'd like to think that I, in such a situation, would have done things a little differently.

Maybe I wouldn't, but it's pretty to think so.

I agree 100% with that, and I believe that in the same circumstance that I would have acted differently. I've been in fight of flight before, and I acted with my fight instinct without hesitation. What I would have done differently I wouldn't know until I am actually in that situation. What I am saying, is that I won't fault the officer for using his judgment, and doing what he felt right in that millisecond he had to react. In the end, the woman was only wounded in the ass, and the bad guy was down, and both officers walked away.

 

[law dawg]

He probably tunnel visioned the poor woman right out of his awareness. Something like this:

Gotta help this lady -> Shooting! -> Shoot back! -> radio for help -> No more bullets! -> M-O-V-E!

Isn't that the exact response that advanced training (aka, SWAT) attempts to remove?

All training is an attempt to replace the body's automatic response (and remember, freezing on the spot is a viable defense strategy in the wild) with a programmed one.

The problem comes in when the re-wiring of the programmed response is incomplete. The training has to be to such a degree that it's almost automatic. You see, under adrenal stress, the conscious forebrain (what does our thinking) shuts down to a great degree. Conscious thought is simply too slow. The amygdala, or hindbrain, takes over, and it has the chemical authority to enforce this action. It has pre-programed survival routines in place (fight, flight, freeze, posture, submit). A trained person can tweak or completely change these responses, but only if they've done so to the level that they are automatic and instinctive.

Think about the first time you drove compared to today. At first, you had to consciously think about each and every action. Now, they're automatic. If something runs out in front of your car you don't think about it - you just automatically slam on the breaks. This is what I'm talking about.

The other part of exposure to adrenal stress (what SWAT guys do in scenario training) is to attempt to inoculate the brain to some degree against the effects of adrenaline, allowing the operator to access more higher brain functions. It's hard to think when you're terrified, but the more exposure one has to adrenaline the easier that becomes, therefore when the operator comes across something that they haven't encountered before they can better think how to deal with it.

On a final note, mastery of a skill and performing that skill under stress are different animals. I read somewhere the number one club in the USA is the Toastmasters - the public speaking group. I'm not sure if that's true, but the simple fact it exists is telling. The people going there have mastered their skill (speaking in their native tongue). They don't need help with their skill set, they need help in their performance. And that's because, under extreme stress (the body doesn't recognize the stress from public speaking and about to be eaten by a sabretooth tiger), your performance of your mastered skill is not guaranteed, unless you've taken that to another level. And so, in the face of that terror, the body falls back on a tried and true survival technique - freezing. Being still.

Or running off the stage.

 

[jdubois]

Business lines at most police stations in large towns and all cities ring off the hook 24-7.People call the cops for all stupid reasons.They even call 911 to ask about school cancellations in the winter during snow storms.

Back when I was living in Rochester, NY and I had to call the cops about a totally non-emergency matter (I don't even remember what it was, some paperwork tedium of some sort) I searched in vain for their business number. It wasn't listed ANYWHERE! I finally found somewhere the number for the chief's secretary. I called that number and asked what number I was supposed to call. "Oh, just call 911" was her response! Apparently they wanted all calls, emergency or not, to go through the 911 dispatcher. Seems crazy to me, but what do I know? <shrug>

 

[pdm]

The other part of exposure to adrenal stress (what SWAT guys do in scenario training) is to attempt to inoculate the brain to some degree against the effects of adrenaline, allowing the operator to access more higher brain functions. It's hard to think when you're terrified, but the more exposure one has to adrenaline the easier that becomes, therefore when the operator comes across something that they haven't encountered before they can better think how to deal with it.

So, that's a yes, then?

 

[law dawg]

So, that's a yes, then?

Oh, you wanted just a one-word answer?

YES!

 

[rscalzo]

The video is being debated on several restricted LE forums at the moment. I really can't say it this point how I judge the action. Unfortunately, only one view is available. Being involved in way too many domestic calls in the past years, the actions of the supposed victim can change in a heartbeat from victim to assailant. Background information would go a long way to allowing me to make a informed decision and not a snap judgment.

 

[jhblaze1]

Those things are important, but the JOB is to enforce the law for the betterment of society and standing up for those who can't stand up for themselves because of the laws we enforce that have stripped people of their ability to stand up for themselves....

Fixed it for you.

 

[law dawg]

Fixed it for you.

I wasn't just talking about that. I was talking about kids (like in Beslan), the elderly, etc.

Not everyone is switched on all the time. We all make mistakes and get caught up in situations beyond our abilities to handle. Even those able to carry may get caught up in something they can't handle (say, bank robbery with multiple assailants). Hopefully the LEOs will be able to pitch a hand.

 

[jhblaze1]

I wasn't just talking about that. I was talking about kids (like in Beslan), the elderly, etc.

Not everyone is switched on all the time. We all make mistakes and get caught up in situations beyond our abilities to handle. Even those able to carry may get caught up in something they can't handle (say, bank robbery with multiple assailants). Hopefully the LEOs will be able to pitch a hand.

I know, I was being wise-assy

 

[.40Smith&Wesson]

That video really disturbs me. It upsets me to watch the cop leave a woman in harm's way like that. I would say he had ample oppurtunity to end this situation with accurate pistol fire. If he didn't wound/kill the assailant, he could have at the very least suppressed the assailant's movement from getting to the opposite side of the car which the cop/woman use as a shield. He failed miserably. Then he shows total cowardice and selfishness by running away leaving the woman alone with an armed psychotic man who wants to kill her. And then I see him receive a medal for his actions and I just grit my teeth. I wouldn't hire that incompetent piece of shit to scrub my toilet. The cop couldn't even find the motivation to protect a defenseless woman. How the hell is he going to protect ME?

 

[law dawg]

I know, I was being wise-assy

I figured, but also wanted to cover the bases.....

 

[ephemeratta]

That is nothing short of disgusting. Instinct is a great indicator of the composition of one's character.

Plenty of people become shell shocked. And, we all know a certain percentage of a squad/patrol, regardless of training, become as useless as tits on a bull when someone's spittin' lead your way. However, the only thing this POS was protecting and serving was his own @ss. How insanely traumatic do you think it was for that woman? And, he's awarded for his 'bravery?'

Whoever wants to can sound off about departments, laws, or officers in general all day, that is your right, but all I'm thinking about is the fact that this man is charged with the responsibility, and granted the privileges of duty, to mitigate the likelihood of someone's victimization. And, he failed miserably.

 

[Martlet]

He didn't bowl her over, she was behind him, and it looked as though she was holding onto him and got dragged down when he started running. It's real easy to sit here and arm chair quarter back this video play by play, but until you are out of ammo, and have a murderous lunatic pointing a sawed off shotgun in your face, you won't know what you will do. The officers first priority is his own safety, he wouldn't be any good to anyone if he were dead.

He wasn't all that good to anyone alive, either. He bowled her over and left her to get shot and beaten.

 

[Martlet]

While I think I understand your post, I must slightly disagree with you. I, as a LEO, feel it's my business to put my life in harm's way. Period. I do for those that can't, at that moment, do for themselves.

Have you ever read about Beslan? If you haven't, please do sometime. It's eye opening. John Giduck was giving a lecture to Denver PD about what their mission would be in the instance of just such a takeover. He said, paraphrasing, that the mission of the responding officers was to charge the building and die, taking out as many of the terrorists as possible. The objective, you see, is to keep them fighting until SWAT, etc. arrives on the scene and not give them a chance to dig in and fortify like they did at Beslan.

THAT's the gig we signed up for. When your out living on the edge, that's the goddamned job. It ain't about your cool gun and shiny badge and officer courtesy and nice perks and good retirement. Those things are important, but the JOB is to enforce the law for the betterment of society and standing up for those who can't stand up for themselves.

Or it is in my bullsh!t opinion, anyway.

Now, I'm not going to armchair quarterback this officer. It's hard to predict what someone will do under severe adrenal stress. Anyone who says any different is full of crap. But I'd like to think that I, in such a situation, would have done things a little differently.

Maybe I wouldn't, but it's pretty to think so.

And THAT, my friends, is the difference between a GOOD law officer a not so good one. +1 too you, sir.

 

[gene]

I would like to think I would have cracked him upside the knoggin with my empty rifle if I had to. I don't think I would have left but then again, my luck I would most likely have been shot! At any rate the guy definately needs range time.

I suspect the cop knows why he did what he did and I can't fathom what it would be like to be a cop if you felt in your heart your were a coward. In either case I doubt he likes seeing this tape and what it shows.

 

[wolf223]

yeah, wow......

i am trained as a combat medic. so this is just my angle on the video.

1. i would NOT have left the "patient" to fend for herself.

anything else is for the birds. i would like to say that i would have dragged her @$$ to safety ect. ect. but i wasn't there and most importantly, I am NOT a Law Enforcement Officer.

so, IMO, they all lived - so it' s good NEWS