The Outfitters' Lament: Too Few Kids With Guns

[Bob J]

An interesting commentary on our kids involvement in shooting sports......

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052748703427704575052010228653210.html#mod=todays_us_opinion

The Eastern Sports & Outdoor Show is a sportsman's paradise, but one where trouble is brewing.

There were lots of kids here with their families, walking the nearly 300,000 square feet of the State Farm Show Complex. They were checking out the newest fishing lures, gun blinds and camouflage clothing. But many of the outfitters who set up booths at the show and sell mountain-lion stalks in New Mexico, bear hunts in Maine and African safaris are worried that they're in a dying business.

"Most kids wouldn't know a deer from a dog," said Jim Paine of Illinois Trophy Bowhunters, an outfitter in west central Illinois. "It's sad."

Indeed, many of the outfitters said that the majority of their clientele are 50-year-old men, a growing number of women, but very few kids. Most pinned the blame on one thing: video games.

"Why are they going to come out and freeze in a blind all day and maybe get one shot when they can sit in their living room and shoot all day long?" asked Brad Bowser, owner of a Linneus, Maine, guide service. Mr. Bowser's daughter, Sienna, is 14 and hunts regularly, but she said that she's an anomaly among her friends.

Video games are the easy villain, but the problem goes much deeper.

Since the 1920s, more people have lived in cities than on farms. There's also the stigma of guns. In the 1950s, nearly every high school in New York City had a shooting team. Today, if you brought a gun to school you'd be expelled.

Then there's economics. Many of these trips aren't cheap and they're often paid for with discretionary income. That means that when times are tough, often one of the first things to get cut from the budget is the annual hunting trip.

Robert Dunn of Dunn's Sporthunting said one of his clients brought his three grown sons on an African safari. The cost was $79,000, with another $10,000 for airfare.

"These trips are not for the faint of wallet," Mr. Dunn said.

Fishing is hurting, too. Tom DePersia, a boat captain from Marshfield, Mass., said that 20 years ago there were what he called "dock rats," kids who hung out and begged to go out and work the charter boats. Many of them went on to become boat captains and deck hands as adults. Today, Mr. DePersia said, there are no more dock rats. "They're all at home doing this crap," he said, moving his thumbs and mimicking a video game controller.

He also blamed broken families. "A 10-year-old kid can go out and play baseball without his dad, but they can't go hunting or fishing," he said.

At his booth here, Mr. DePersia runs a continuous videotape of a 17-year-old kid hauling in a 1,000 pound tuna off Cape Cod, but the video is 20 years old. "We just don't get kids like we used to," he said.

The outdoor industry is aware of the problem and trying to fix it. Outfitters are offering father-son and father-daughter trips, but with little success. Of the hundreds of hunts he led last year in Maine, Mr. Bowser said, only a dozen or so included families with children. Mr. Dunn said he's tried to get outfitters to offer half-price trips to kids accompanying a full-fare parent, but it's been a tough sell.

Still, gun sports are trending younger in one way: It used to be that you had to be 13 or 14 to hunt, but some states have changed the law so that children as young as 5 can go out and hunt under adult supervision. Craig Cushman of Thompson/Center, a unit of Smith & Wesson, said the problem is the "kid bubble." Thompson/Center sees kids hunting and shooting from age 6 to about 13, then loses them during their teenage and college years. A few come back in their 20s and 30s, but most never do.

Some are hoping that a proliferation of cable television shows featuring young, attractive female hunters will also appeal to a broader audience, especially girls. "The message is that it's OK to have pigtails, wear makeup and shoot things," said Kandi Kisky, who hosts "Whitetail Freaks" on the Outdoor Channel. Thompson/Center, trying to ride this trend, has a pink version of its Hot Shot, a single-shot .22 rifle designed for youngsters.

Ted Nugent, the rock guitarist and hunting advocate, thinks the problem is that even pro-hunting groups are too timid. "We need to be celebrating the utter joy and spirituality of hunting, not apologizing for it," he said.

But the answer for many of these outfitters may not be hunting at all. Many here have started offering safaris that substitute cameras for guns.

"It very well may be the future of this business," said Mr. Dunn.

 

[AKman]

Some valid points and a worrisome problem that needs to be addressed. Our family has tried very hard to keep our kids away from video games. I have never promoted them and never will. Our kids and now our grandkids were taught about the outdoors and all it has to offer. They will continue the tradition as long as they don't succumb to pier pressure and eroding outdoor benifits. Not brought up in the article was the tiring fight against the anti's. For my generation it's easy to understand why we must fight. For the younger generations who really don't know much about the outdoors, they tire easily of the fight or don't bother at all. It seems like we're always fighting something every day!

 

[MassMark]

I get these little wisps of hope....I had 135 kids on the rifle range last winter - only two had problems with following range rules. One of the two was not allowed on the range at all and the other was redirected and enjoyed his range time. Since then, we've had two open houses at our range and more kids on the firing line - some with parents who had never fired a gun before. Some are now members. Among the several fathers that comes into Dicks Sporting Goods is one whose name I never remember, (I hate that). He came in a few weeks ago with his 7-year old daughter - a precious girl that reminds me of my Sara at that age - wide-eyed, full of wonder. She was trying on a pink-accented Remington camo hat - a last minute accessory for their late season Ohio deer hunt. Being miffed that parents are not booking $20,000.00 African safaris with their kids is a bit stupid and some of the private game ranches here do little to adjust their pricing to encourage families to hunt. Most are for the well-heeled and set their prices so...Sour grapes. The real key lies within us to stop being detached parents of latch-key kids. We have become far too permissive - far too comfortable with X-Box as a babysitter and the internet as our respite to the demands of the child....We need more little girls shopping for pink Remington hats and more fathers and mothers picking up a 10/22 and some targets for a day plinking - rather than handbags and golf balls.... Therein is the key.....

 

[Pilgrim]

this is appropriate here too: (as mentioned in a previous post)

 

[pernox]

Thanks for posting the article - it seems that the division is widening every year between the "city folk" and the "country folk." The mere fact that it's necessary to cross a couple state lines and shell out five or six figures to go out and enjoy the land, maybe take home a trophy and tasty meat, points to the divide. It's not enough to be interested in hunting or outdoor activities - people feel as though these things are so specialized or even taboo that they won't go out and do it without a class or a paid tour. While I never had the pleasure of hunting as a kid, my Dad and I fished all the time, and many of my friends went hunting with their fathers - I remember a couple times getting the phone call to come over check out the deer bleeding out in a buddy's garage before the butcher showed up. This was just normal stuff, and I wasn't too far out in the sticks.. Pittsfield, Clinton before that. Relatively well-populated compared to South Berkshire and some other areas in MA.

I can't friggin WAIT until my little girl is ready to come shooting. She's eight now, fast learner, knows the safety rules.. But isn't quite there yet. Id' rather wait a little while and have her enjoy it enough to stick with it than rush the process and develop an aversion. Very much looking forward to the time together. And as I get older and (if all goes according to plan...) get more time on my hands, I'd like to hunt as well - hopefully with happy and willing offspring to accompany me.

Our favorite hobby together right now is cooking - she's a great helper, and some of our best time together is spent outside at the grill/fire pit or in the kitchen doing what we're going to do on this (not so snowy) snow day; making some from-scratch pizza pies.

 

[Bill Nance]

This is the pernicious nature of our increasingly urbanized society and the whole feminization of our country.

Something started happening in the late 60s where women decided that they wanted men to be more like women. -All sensitivity and understanding and no testicles. I can understand the impulse. Like almost everything else that turns out horrifically bad it wasn't done with bad intent. But the result has been that men are expected to behave like women. To think that "violence never solved anything" and to fear conflict. in other words many many men have been emasculated. And yes, divorce doesn't help that situation especially when Dad runs out on his kids or Mom decides to strip him of his visitation because she hates him more than she loves her children.

If little boys are disciplined and punished for acting like little boys (troublemakers and hyper little monsters God Bless 'em) and praised for acting like little girls they will start acting more and more like little girls. At this point this has become so pervasie in our schools that even if Mom isn't doing anything of the sort and Dad is involved, the boy is in constant conflict. And people will avoid conflict most often.

When I met my wife one of the first ground rules I laid out was this:

"Don't come to me and complain or talk about being unhappy with the expectation that I'll be quiet and just pat you on the butt and agree how awful it is without other comment. I am a man, not a woman. If you want that, talk to your mom or another woman because I will offer you a solution to the problem. This is what men do and I'm too old and ornery to change."

It will be 8 of the happiest years of my life some April since I got on my knees and asked her to marry me and that ground rule has saved us a lot of arguments.

Sadly I think too few women out there grasp this kind of thing. Equal does not mean identical.

 

[Mark from MA]

This is the pernicious nature of our increasingly urbanized society and the whole feminization of our country.

Something started happening in the late 60s where women decided that they wanted men to be more like women. -All sensitivity and understanding and no testicles. I can understand the impulse. Like almost everything else that turns out horrifically bad it wasn't done with bad intent. But the result has been that men are expected to behave like women. To think that "violence never solved anything" and to fear conflict. in other words many many men have been emasculated. And yes, divorce doesn't help that situation especially when Dad runs out on his kids or Mom decides to strip him of his visitation because she hates him more than she loves her children.

If little boys are disciplined and punished for acting like little boys (troublemakers and hyper little monsters God Bless 'em) and praised for acting like little girls they will start acting more and more like little girls. At this point this has become so pervasie in our schools that even if Mom isn't doing anything of the sort and Dad is involved, the boy is in constant conflict. And people will avoid conflict most often.

When I met my wife one of the first ground rules I laid out was this:

"Don't come to me and complain or talk about being unhappy with the expectation that I'll be quiet and just pat you on the butt and agree how awful it is without other comment. I am a man, not a woman. If you want that, talk to your mom or another woman because I will offer you a solution to the problem. This is what men do and I'm too old and ornery to change."

It will be 8 of the happiest years of my life some April since I got on my knees and asked her to marry me and that ground rule has saved us a lot of arguments.

Sadly I think too few women out there grasp this kind of thing. Equal does not mean identical.

I agree......I see a lot of this...women are more equal to men nowadays....many are the breadwinners, etc...there's no doubt our society is more feminzed compared to when I grew up. I have to remind my wife that boy's will be boys sometimes..... I have seen some of my friends become totally feminized and let their women rule the home and decide that guns,etc are not safe....that shit sickens me. But I think this is where we are at in our generation. Guys spend more time at home than generations past due to the fact that both people work.

It all begins at home, I taught my daughter archery (she's not into guns..her choice) and my son is very into guns, even though he's ten years old. He likes video games (especially COD), but he's monitored to make sure he gets out, goes hunting with me, goes shooting with me, learns reloading with me. Both kids play a lot of sports, and have other outdoor activities like skiing, etc. I show my son how to butcher deer, he helps me make jerky and sausage all the time. At the end of the day, he may not decide to continue hunting/shooting/fishing....but it's not for the fact that I didn't show him how........

I don't have money to take him on expensive hunting trips, but locally I try to find the best hunting possible. He went on his first Striper trip last year and loved it. Next year I will take both of them on a Striper trip if money allows. And he will come hunting with me for sure.

I really like the fact that some of these places offer father/son deals...the fact of the matter is that hunting/fishing trips are "extra income" things...and always will be. However there is no excuse for not getting involved with your kids when something can be done locally and cheap. It may not be the best trip in the world, but some of my fondest memories were hunting and fishing with my father.

There is the fact that some of these hunting guides/ TV personalities have "whored out" the sport to begin with the antler craze......shooting big bucks on farms with relative ease is not the real life case With expectations so high, many people choose not to hunt because of the expense of it all. The hunting industry has a lot of itself to blame.....States like Illinois charging people 500 just for a license and land to lease or outfitters fees being priced in the thousands of dollars just to hunt deer......there's no doubt they will turn people away....especially in a bad economy. So yeah, video games may be there to blame....but they are kidding themselves charging guys thousands for deer that are naturally running around on their farms for free. Sooner or later....guys say...WTF...just how much is a deer worth anyway?

 

[fencer]

I have to call BS on this one to some degree. Kids, especially sons, will want to do WHATEVER Dad is doing. If I am on the tractor, he wants to drive it.If I am going fishing he wants to come. If I am chopping wood he wants to help. If he knows I am going to the range, God help me if he is not invited. I came home the other night with my range bag in hand and he was pissed! "What! You went to the range without me?"

Video games and the economy are not the only sources of blame. It's called parenting and no one does it any more. I'll bet that most of the members here that have kids that are old enough, teach them about the great out doors, hunting, fishing etc. The problem is the total pussification of America as a whole. It used to be that if you went to any playground in America and watched the kids, They were playing Cowboy and Indians or Cops and Robbers or War. Kids screaming " I got you! You're dead!" Now those activities are either banned or so frowned upon that they have become virtually nonexistent

Kids haven't changed. They are still unmolded lumps of clay. Parents have changed. I have 40 year old friends that fight with their kids for the controllers to the video games. Dad's who couldn't start a fire with a gallon of gasoline and a friggin Zippo lighter. It's sad but true that we are becoming a nation of wussies and we are not doing the next generation any favors.

When I was a kid, Dad changed the oil in the car in the driveway, never called a plumber or a handyman, and taught me that interior trim was what people used to hide their half assed carpentry skills. When you came in from school or practice and smelled dinner on the boil we would ask, "Is it from the Supermarket or did Dad kill it?" When I was a kid, lucky rabbit foots were all the rage. I got my first one via a hatchet and a chopping stump. Yeah, I had video games. Space Invaders, Asteroids, Pong, but those were for rainy days. If I had a chance to shoot my pellet gun or try to peek up a girls skirt I'd be out of that house quicker than Rosie O'Donnell on a smoked ham.

Kids haven't changed. It's not video games, and the economy was just as bad when I was a kid. Parents have changed. The one thing that parents and Americans as a whole have gotten better at is finding some thing to blame. It's not video games that are making our kids a$$holes... it's parents